The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 237 - Polish

Transcript:

Jen: Hi, Peter.

Pete: Hi, Jennifer.

Jen: I sent an email out to a bunch of my clients because it occurred to me, as I was working on writing this thing that I'm working on, that I sometimes say things over and over again but they're so embedded in my own vocabulary that I don't realize that they're unique to me. So I sent an email to a bunch of my clients and I was like, "Can you just tell me, what's a phrase I say a lot in connection to creativity or creative output?" And I got back so many amazing responses, but this one in particular, I thought we should do an episode on. One of my clients wrote back and said, "You often say, 'Polish the turd.'"

Pete: Oh my god, I had no idea where that was going. This is The Long and The Short Of It

Pete: I was waiting, I had my pen ready, I thought you were going to drop some absolute wisdom. And it's just, nope, "Polish the turd."

Jen: "Polish the turd." Well, hopefully we'll find some wisdom in this pile of shit. Over fifteen years, I guess I've used that phrase in a lot of contexts. Like, when someone has just shown me their work and they're like, "Oh my god, I feel like that was such a piece of shit. Then I go, "Well, then, let's polish the turd."

Pete: That's so good.

Jen: So I think it suggests that you can turn something ugly into something beautiful. And I think it also suggests that only you could polish the turd in the way that you would, and you've got to lend something that is a little bit of your own magic to make something that's kind of a mess better.

Pete: Okay, yeah. So one of the things you articulated is exactly where my brain went to when I heard you say, "Polish the turd." And I've been lucky enough to hear you say it in person in class as well, which is, I've witnessed this expression in real time. But it feels like closely aligned with things that we've talked about in the past, and other people have written about, like a shitty first draft that Anne Lamott first wrote about when describing the writing process, and/or first pancakes that we talked about recently.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: That the creative process, you know, in order to build anything, create anything, it's like, you have to do the t...I can't even say it. You have to get the crap version out there first, or in your case, literally the crap out there first.

Jen: Yep.

Pete: And then the process of iterating, improving, polishing becomes how you make anything better. It's like a metaphor for creating anything, almost.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: Nothing comes out perfectly. You don't sit down and write a best-seller immediately. You sit down and you just write a bunch of really crap stuff.

Jen: Mmm-hmm.

Pete: And then, the process of writing a book...I'm speaking as if I've done it, but I've read lots of books about people talking about it. The process of writing a book is basically editing, is polishing, is reviewing and refining and tweaking, and that can also be said to be "polishing a turd".

Jen: Okay. So the two things you mentioned, shitty first draft and first pancake, I use those phrases all the time. And now that I'm thinking of them in relationship to turd polish, I'm realizing that shitty first draft and make a first pancake are tools of permission. They are a prompt you give yourself to get going. And then, on the other end of it...pun, unintended...on the back end of the experience, when you're feeling that sort of like, "Oh my god, I can't believe I just made that. I can't believe I just wrote that. I can't believe I just shared that. Like, I'm feeling that like that wasn't very good," it's the book end to make the first pancake. It's like, okay, instead of going like, "That was so bad," it's almost like trying to get yourself primed for the next step. So, make the first pancake: "I made the first pancake. It's so bad. It's such a piece of shit." Step two: "Polish the turd."

Pete: Yeah. And so, I'm curious...I can't believe we're trying to have a serious conversation about this expression.

Jen: I know, it's hilarious.

Pete: I'm curious what polish looks like. And you sort of articulated this a little bit or you hinted at the fact that maybe polish look different for everyone.

Jen: Mmm-hmm.

Pete: So if, like you said, if the first prompt is, "Get it out. Like, write something down or sing something out loud or just like put the crap first version into the world." And so, we kind of know what that looks like. It looks like, "Just do the thing." Then the polishing, like what are some ways to think about polishing?

Jen: So a really important concept I have landed on recently, and I'm trying to embed it into almost everything I talk about, is this notion that creativity demands context. And so, to your point, what polish looks like is going to be dictated by what the context is. And that might have something to do with how far along in the iteration process you are, because if tomorrow is publishing day, I don't know that I want you to publish the turd. Like, if we're still polishing it the day before publish day, we might need an overhaul, not a polish. But if we're early enough in the process, when we can sort of...oh gosh, this metaphor is really about to go off the rails.

Pete: Like it hasn't already.

Jen: ...if we can mold and shape and really get our hands dirty.

Pete: Oh, wow.

Jen: So, let me give you an example from my own work.

Pete: Perfect.

Jen: I'll use myself as the example, actually.

Pete: Here we go.

Jen: So, the reason I had asked all these people for these phrases is I'm trying to write something right now that is like a Jen Waldman's creative manifesto.

Pete: I love it.

Jen: Like, "Here are the things that I believe to be true about creativity, and here are the things that I think we need in order to stay unstuck." So, I have been polishing lots of my own turds over the last couple of weeks. And for me, what that has looked like is working with a coach that, at this point...you know when they say someone is nose blind? That they stink, but they don't know that they stink because they smell themselves all the time. That is my fear about my own turds, is I don't know that they stink. So hiring the coach has been really helpful, because she's been able to say to me, "This part of it is worth polishing. This part is worth flushing."

Pete: Mmm. Nice. To polish or flush, that feels like a nice question to pose.

Jen: Right? But in other circumstances, it looks like working on technique and getting more reps in. In certain circumstances, it looks like adding unexpected ingredients to try to change the makeup of the thing that I'm working on. So again, creativity requires context.

Pete: Yeah. I feel like this is perhaps a nice complement to that episode around second drafts. And we talked in that episode (I'll put it in the Box O' Goodies) about, "What are some techniques in order to get better at our second draft?" And I feel like we're now talking about, "How do we think about polishing," whether that's polishing with an external coach, or polishing through honing skills, or polishing in some other way. I guess the thing that's standing out to me in this moment, which I guess is obvious to those listening because everyone listening is so smart and I'm thinking out loud, but what I'm thinking is, it's got to have been shared with someone in order to then be polished. Do you think? I feel like I have to share it with someone for it to then become polishable. And maybe that's because when I put something into the world, because of fear of people's opinions (FOPO), I'm able to be better equipped to smell the fact that this might be a turd, not necessarily a finished product. Did that make any sense?

Jen: Wait, are you saying, "Did that make any sense," because you fear you just laid a turd? Do you want to polish it in real time?

Pete: 100%. That is so meta. That's exactly what just happened. This happens all the time, I feel like, on this podcast. I say something and I go, "Ugh, fear of what our listeners are thinking, fear of why Jen's looking at me like that. Why is she looking at me like that? This is obviously a turd. I need to polish it. Help me, somebody."

Jen: Okay, so polish the turd.

Pete: In order to make things better, we must first share the things that we made. I guess that's what I'm trying to say.

Jen: That was a nice polish.

Pete: Thank you.

Jen: That was a nice polish.

Pete: Thank you. Thank you.

Jen: It's interesting, because I agree with you and with one caveat, which is sometimes the person you need to share it with is you, outside of your head.

Pete: Hmm. Oh, yeah.

Jen: So, there are times when my whiteboard acts as the person I'm sharing it with. It's actually me, but me in the third person.

Pete: 100% agree. Yeah. Fascinating. Okay, so that reminds me of The Lamppost Effect.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: Which we've mentioned in previous podcasts, but it's worth reiterating. There is this idea in certain coaching circles that if you're questioning how to show up as a empathetic, curious, effective coach, just remember to take on the role of a lamppost. And I guess the metaphor goes on to talk about the fact that if someone just walked up to a lamppost every single day or every single week and said, "Here are the things I'm struggling with, and here's how I'm thinking about solving them," they'd actually get a lot of value from doing that, even though they're literally talking to a lamppost.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: I feel like that's what you're describing, is like, you can polish your own turds through a whiteboard, through a lamppost, through...it's just like getting it out of your head or your body.

Jen: That's right.

Pete: And maybe there's an audience for it, maybe there's not. Huh.

Jen: Yeah, get it out. Get it out. The metaphor is a gift that keeps right on giving.

Pete: Just keeping it in there, that's not going to end well.

Jen: It's not going to end well. You've got to let it out. I can't remember if I told you this, but I heard this on a podcast....and I wish I could remember which one...that there's this thing culturally among software developers, or maybe it's coders, maybe it's engineers, this rubber chicken culture. Are you familiar with this?

Pete: No. I don't think so.

Jen: I wish I could remember where I heard this. And please, if you're a software engineer and you're like, "What the hell are you talking about," write to us and let us know. But what I heard was that there's this joke in software culture that you put a rubber chicken on your desk and whenever you can't figure out what you're trying to make, you try to explain it to the rubber chicken.

Pete: Oh, wow.

Jen: And then, you go back to work.

Pete: That's good. I like that. I like that, I like that. That's like the...I've heard various podcasts interviewers say, "Could you explain that to me as if I was a five-year-old? Because my knowledge of this topic is about a five-year-old's."

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: But I do think...I mean, this conversation is hilarious and whimsical and light-hearted. But as always with you and your metaphors and your ideas, there's actually some really fascinating and helpful and practical wisdom in all this. And that is that our ideas, our creative thoughts are best gotten out of our body in some way. And whether that's shared with a friend so that they can help you make it better, i.e. polished, or whether that's shared with a lamppost so that you can hear yourself say something and then be able to polish it yourself, or whether it's shared with a whiteboard so that you can see what you've got and make it better, or whether that's, you know, like written down if you're drafting a blog or a book so that you can then go back and edit and tweak and make better, that you can't polish something that hasn't been released.

Jen: That's right, Pete. And that is The Long and The Short Of It.