The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 244 - Reframe

Transcript:

Pete: Hey, Jen.

Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: So, it's time for another installment of...drum roll, drum roll, drum roll..."I can't believe we didn't have an episode about this topic."

Jen: Yep. Okay.

Pete: So, the topic in question that I'd like to talk to you about...which I feel like is a thread in almost every single episode we've ever recorded but I'm not sure we've ever actually called it out, and we've definitely never recorded a specific episode on reframing.

Jen: That's crazy to me.

Pete: I know.

Jen: I'm officially stunned. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Pete: Wild. Absolutely wild, right?

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: I feel like reframing and I guess even framing, which I'm sure we'll get into both and what the distinction is, I feel like it's something you and I do in every single episode, actually, and every single day with people that we're working with as coaching clients or, for me, in the world of leadership development, and for you, in the world of acting and performing. I have no doubt that you have all of these techniques and tools to help people think about framing and reframing. So it's just, it's like, I don't know, it would be like us recording an episode on oxygen or something, because it's like it's ever-present for both of us. But we've never talked about it.

Jen: Yeah. Wild.

Pete: So where this came to mind for me is I was running a workshop last week, actually called Reframe, which three other friends of mine, Kirsty, Michael, and Mary, and myself, we invented/designed/created this workshop like four years ago now, called Reframe. And we were intending to run it as a one-off, and it went really well and so we ran it again, and then it went really well, and then so a corporate asked us to run it. And so, it's sort of still going. And now, Mary and I have run it a few times for this specific group of really amazing leaders. Anyway, we were running it last week, and the whole premise was, it started off as like, "How do we reframe the idea of a workshop?" Like, most people think of a workshop or an off-site, and they think of slide decks, they think of like cramped dimly-lit meeting rooms, they think of, you know, those little like mentos lollies that you get in the middle of the table and like everyone's just jacked up on sugar and coffee.

Jen: Yep.

Pete: And we were kind of like, "How do you completely reframe the idea of a workshop? What if it's fun? What if there's no slides? What if there's healthy snacks? What if there's a beautifully lit room? And blah, blah, blah." So within the context of the workshop that we were running last week, it was all about, "How do we reframe traditional notions of leadership," and all those things. And so, there's like all these different examples that came up, and I'm happy to share some. But I just was like, "Oh, this is a technique and a tool and a skill that I know you do and utilize all the time, and so we should talk about it."

Jen: Yeah. I mean, it's crazy to me that we've never actually recorded an episode on this. I'm sure I've mentioned this many times, probably closer to the beginning part of a year, I run a four week workshop called Shift.

Pete: Right.

Jen: Which is...it's basically four weeks of reframing.

Pete: Yeah. Wild. Wild. Okay, so you have a four week workshop that is essentially about reframing as well. So cool.

Jen: Yes.

Pete: So, how do you...let me start here then, how do you even think about reframing? And maybe the first question is like, what is framing? How do you think about framing in general?

Jen: Well, that is a great place to start.

Pete: It's also, I feel like, a big question.

Jen: From the behavioral science world, there's an actual definition of framing. And then, from the, "We're not behavioral scientists, we're just people walking around," we probably have our own definition of framing. So internally, I'd say, framing is mindset. Externally, like when you are sharing with other people, framing is the information you are providing them that helps them develop a certain perspective or view.

Pete: Right. Yes. I was writing down...this is the Pete definition, non-official definition...it's like, framing is essentially the way we describe things or name things. Some examples that come to mind for me, right? If I frame or name a conversation as a difficult conversation, that automatically creates a bunch of now stories or context that I'm going to start to tell myself based on the way it's framed as difficult. And I heard a participant in one of the workshops I ran just yesterday actually offer a great reframe, which was, "Instead of difficult conversations, what if we call them courageous conversations?"

Jen: Right.

Pete: And in choosing a different descriptive word (i.e. framing it differently, i.e. reframing this), does it then change my interaction with that particular thing? And we went on to talk about how actually yes, it does. So that's like one example of A., framing (i.e. this is a hard conversation or a difficult conversation), and then that, because I've described it in that way, creates a bunch of now stories and baggage and context that I perhaps tell myself based on that framing. And then, an example of reframing is, "How might we change that to courageous?" So that's where my mind goes, is to like...it's the non-official Pete description, is, "It's the way we describe things."

Jen: It's crazy to me that you're bringing this up, because I am currently re-reading the book Nudge by Richard Thaler and Cass Sunstein (or Sunstein, I'm not sure how it's pronounced.) But I'm literally, this morning...I'm showing you the book right now.

Pete: She's holding it up, folks.

Jen: See what page I'm currently on? What does that say?

Pete: Oh my god, it says "Framing" at the page.

Jen: Right.

Pete: Jen is up to the page on framing. That is so funny.

Jen: So let me tell you the example of framing they use in this book, because it might be interesting.

Pete: Great.

Jen: So, let's say...I'm paraphrasing...say you have just been diagnosed with a heart disease and your doctor is proposing an operation, and the doctor says, "Of one hundred patients who have this operation, ninety are alive after five years." That's one framing. But the other framing is, "Of one hundred patients who have this operation, ten are dead after five years." And how it is set up, it's the same exact information, but the frame determines how you feel, how you think, how you act as a result.

Pete: Yes. Yes. Yeah, perfect example. The way we frame things impacts the way we feel about them. Yes, yes, yes-ity, yes, yes, yes. I love that. So then this, to me, almost makes the case for why reframing is so important.

Jen: Correct.

Pete: Is, framing (i.e. when we hear things in a certain way) is going to make us feel a certain way about them. And I think what we sometimes forget is there's a tool of permission that we have, which is, "Is there a way to reframe this? Is there a way to think about this from a different perspective?" And this is why I was saying I feel like we do this in every single episode, because we're like, "Have we thought about it from this perspective? And what about this thing? And have you thought about this thing?" So that, to me, is like what we're throwing around, possible reframes for the topics that we talk about all day, every day.

Jen: And one of the reasons I associate framing with mindset is, so in her...I guess I'm referencing books today. In her seminal book Mindset, Carol Dweck defines mindset as, "The view you adopt." Not the view you were born with, not the view someone else bestowed upon you, but the view you adopt. And so what I love about this idea of reframe is, if you've adopted a view...I always equate it to like when you go get glasses at the optometrist and they keep dropping these frames in front of it or these lenses, and they're like, "Which one's clearer, one or two? Which one's clearer, two or three?" That, you get to choose the thing that lets you see the thing the way you want to see it. And that is, to me, what a reframe is. It's the view you are choosing to adopt.

Pete: Yes. Yes, yes, yes. I think the key word there, to me, is choice. The reason reframing is so important is, we often forget or fail to realize we can choose a different frame. So something is presented to us in a certain way, like, "You need to have a difficult conversation." (I keep coming back to that example.) And I can choose to then go, "Huh. Okay. What if it's a courageous conversation?" And that is actually requiring me to show up courageously, as opposed to showing up nervous about having a difficult conversation. Or one of the ones, you know, I talk about a lot, and you and I have talked about a lot, some people frame certain leadership skills as soft skills, and that sort of invokes in a lot of people that they're less important. And thanks to Seth Godin and many others, there's this idea of, "Can we reframe those soft skills actually as real skills, actually as the human important skills of leadership?" And that completely changes the way people want to interact with them, because they're real as opposed to soft, they're human as opposed to sort of nebulous.

Jen: Yes, yes. yes. And also, as consumers of information, advertisements, news, everything has been framed for us.

Pete: Right. Oh, yeah.

Jen: So it's important to ask ourselves, "What is the frame? And who placed the frame there?"

Pete: Right.

Jen: Feel how you want to feel, but just ask yourself, "Do you see the frame? And what happens if you adjust the frame?"

Pete: Well, I think this is the wild thing about reframing. It's such a, like it's almost an obnoxiously simple concept. It's like, "Can you look at this from a different perspective?" Sure. But the impact of it, like it never ceases to amaze me how wild it can be to reframe something and see it from a different perspective. It can completely change the story you tell yourself about something.

Jen: Mmm-hmm.

Pete: So there was an example last week, actually, when we were talking about this. One of the amazing leaders, who's got a family and I think she's got three kids, she was talking about her and her husband having almost inadvertently reframed the weekend for themselves. So, often the weekend for them is filled with sports and various activities and parties. And they kind of, she was sharing, they got themselves into this point of almost overwhelm and disgruntlement because they have to go to this sport, and then they have to go to this party, and they have to take their other kids to this thing. And she said, one day they were just sitting down being like, "Okay, so the weekends aren't working for us. How can we essentially reframe this?" And the simple frame they came up with was, "What if it's, 'We get to,' instead of, 'We have to?'"

Jen: Yep.

Pete: And now, she's like, "We look forward to the weekend because I get to go and watch my kid play a sport. And then, I get to take my kid to a party. And now, I get to...," and she's like, "Literally just that simple change in words has completely changed my relationship with my kids on the weekend." And I'm just like, it's so...again, it's obnoxiously simple. But it's so powerful, the story we can now tell ourselves based on that reframe.

Jen: Yes. There's so many incredible reframes out there. And you know, one of the things I share in my Shift class is that not every reframe works for every person. You've got to try them on. Here's one that other people loved when they heard it, and I was like, "No."

Pete: Yes.

Jen: I heard someone who was complaining about traffic in Los Angeles, like getting stuck in traffic...it's a very congested city...say that the reframe that really helped her calm down was when she gets stuck in traffic and feels herself getting angry at it, she says to herself, "I am traffic."

Pete: Oh, I hate that. That's annoying. No, I don't like that.

Jen: I was like, "Absolutely not. I don't want to be traffic. I don't want to be anywhere near it." But just like, for her, the idea that she was helping to create the situation she was in didn't make her angry at the situation anymore, which I thought was hilarious.

Pete: Yeah, yeah. That's brilliant. That's brilliant.

Jen: What are some reframes that you use for yourself? Like when you find yourself challenged by something, that you now know to reframe it?

Pete: My brain immediately goes to the one that I've done a TED talk on, which is, for me, this idea of imposter syndrome or feeling like an imposter or feeling like a fraud. I don't even like the word "syndrome" that much anymore, but people know what I mean when I say it. That that is a bad thing, is kind of the frame I had for so long, that, "I feel like a fraud, and so that must be a bad thing that I need to get rid of or eliminate or run in a different direction." And instead, what I have come to is that that I can reframe it as a good thing. It's a sign that I'm doing something I haven't done before, which is a sign that I'm growing and learning and stretching, and that is me living with a growth mindset. So, I think about that one a lot. And I guess it's a version of, you know, reframing fear as or reframing doubt as an opportunity to learn. So, I bump up against that one a lot. I'm sure I can think of some more. Have you got any like really pertinent ones that come to mind for you?

Jen: I've got four weeks of them, Pete. One that has just been so helpful for me for many, many years, is when I am feeling like I can't see a situation clearly because I'm emotional about it, I'll find myself saying something like, you know, "I can't believe this is happening to me."

Pete: Mmm.

Jen: And I reframed this like probably ten years ago, and it's so powerful. I just say, "This is happening."

Pete: Mmm. Yeah.

Jen: Like, I just take away that, "...to me," and I'm suddenly able to step back and like see things for what they are.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: Another is...well, this one's actually become pretty popular since it was on our podcast...is the idea of first pancake.

Pete: Right.

Jen: That is a reframe from, "I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how to do this," to, "Let's make a first pancake and see how it goes."

Pete: Yeah. Yeah, love that. The other one, for me, that I think about a lot is like looking at feedback, and how I could frame feedback in a certain way to be uncomfortable or challenging or unimportant or annoying. And instead, what I try and do as much as possible is always look for the gift in feedback, of like, "Okay, so where is the gift in this feedback?" Even if it's feedback that is something I completely disagree with, perhaps the gift is, "Oh, this has reaffirmed how I feel about a certain thing." So I look at feedback a lot through the lens of, I guess a reframe of, "Where's the gift in this?" And then, other ones...I mean, I have like little comical silly ones that I often do with myself. Sometimes they annoy me. But, you know, if I'm like frustrated and stuck in line waiting for a coffee or something, I'll be like, "Oh, I guess this is an opportunity to practice patience."

Jen: Yep.

Pete: And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. But I just, I'm constantly like coming up with these little reframes for myself to try and bring more calm and presence of mind and clarity and just like perspective for myself.

Jen: I had one come up in class today, where someone was realizing that she had a habit in the way she was using her body as an actor, and the term "bad habit" was brought up. And I offered the reframe that, "It's just a habit, or it's an old habit. But it's not bad. It's not good. It's just a habit that was developed for some certain reason. And maybe it's just an old habit, that you're ready for something new." And I could kind of see the weight lifted off of her shoulders when she didn't have to think of it as bad anymore.

Pete: So good. Yeah. So good. What a...it's such a, ah, such a fun and effective and almost playful tool of permission, reframing.

Jen: It really is. You've used "tool of permission" multiple times on this episode, and I could not be happier.

Pete: I'm framing reframe as a tool of permission. That's correct.

Jen: Yes. Love that. You know, we probably could record hours of us just saying reframes.

Pete: Yeah. "What about this? And have you thought about this? And have you thought about this?"

Jen: "And this one? And this one?" So, I have a feeling this is going to be a juicy Box O' Goodies this week.

Pete: Oh, yeah.

Jen: But I'd love to hear from our listeners. Listeners, if you have particularly powerful reframes that you'd be willing to share with us, please email us: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.com. We would love to hear from you.

Pete: Yes. I love the idea of an episode where we share our listeners reframes.

Jen: Oh my gosh. Okay, then let's make this a challenge to the listeners. Instead of just an invitation. let me reframe this as a challenge. If we get enough people who have written in with powerful reframes, Pete and I commit to doing an episode where we share your reframes.

Pete: You heard it here first, send them in: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.com.

Jen: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.