The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 269 - Target Lists

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: Hello, Jennifer.

Jen: I recently delivered a keynote at an online conference. Technically, in Australia (even though I was in the States), which was created by and hosted by our mutual friend, Kirsty Stark,

Pete: Ah, CrewCon. The one and only.

Jen: That's right. And my keynote was on building your professional network. And I thought it might be useful to share one of the ideas from that keynote,

Pete: Please.

Jen: Because I know, you know, we're always, all of us, building our professional network.

Pete: Yeah. I feel like, A., this is going to be one of those episodes that all of our listeners, myself included, are going to want to keep revisiting. And, B., having incurred some incredible feedback from that keynote, I'm excited to participate as an audience member here and just like nerd out on the Jen Waldman masterclass that is building one's professional network. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Pete: Alright, Waldman, I've got a notepad and pen. I'm ready.

Jen: Okie-dokie. Maybe this will become a series over time, and we'll get to each of the points that was made in the keynote. But the thing I wanted to share today was the idea of being intentional with how you are actually building your professional network. And maybe it's important to preface all of this by saying, building your network is not gross if you're doing it with intention and vision.

Pete: Yeah. I feel like I need to say that out loud for the leaders and executives that I work with, that I know are thinking, "Networking is so gross." So, what you said is: Networking doesn't have to be gross, if done intentionally.

Jen: Well, I don't even like "networking" as a verb, which is maybe a whole other episode,

Pete: Alright. Sorry.

Jen: I like "network" as a noun with an intentional verb in front of it. So building your network, nurturing your network, serving your network, expanding your network, tending to your network, reconnecting, connecting, etc.

Pete: Oh, that's way better. Yeah, I'm already learning. This is great. This is great. Networking as a verb, love it. So when building one's network, it doesn't have to be gross.

Jen: Correct. And this is very much about the building part of it. So I do a ton of work with artists, specifically actors who are building careers that are related to theater, Broadway, etc. And I mean, part of how you establish more paths of opportunity, and are also a better collaborator, and also someone who is a better connector of other people is by meeting more people. So, so much of the work that I'm doing is helping actors to build their professional network. And many people, when I'm first talking to them about how to do that, really have this image in their mind that they are mindlessly and maybe even desperately throwing spaghetti at the wall and hoping something will stick.

Pete: Yes.

Jen: And so that might look like, "Well, I've written up this template. And I'm just going to send it out to anyone I can think of, and hope that somebody responds to me." So, let's just start off by saying no to that.

Pete: Yeah, agreed. And I would say the same is true in the context that I operate in, in terms of leaders are often lamenting and/or some leaders are really good at connecting with others from within an organization or within an industry across organizations, and building a network of people who influence them, empower them, challenge them, inspire them, in order to then be better themselves as leaders. And I think the same is true where people feel gross, is you immediately picture that LinkedIn message that you get that is the most spammy of all spam messages, and you go, "I don't want to do that. That's gross." You're not saying that. That's not what we're suggesting.

Jen: No, no, no, no, no. So we're not throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks. Instead, the visual I like to use is...I don't think I've ever said this...when I was younger and used to go to sleepaway camp, I loved the rifle range and the archery range. Like, I would spend many hours shooting arrows and shooting rifles at a target.

Pete: This is such a fun fact I did not know about you. Jen, the archer. Yes,

Jen: Yes. Jen, the archer. So I think about this like an archer, where I have set up a bunch of different targets for myself. And my goal is to build myself a quiver of arrows, where each arrow is specifically designed for one target. So, no spaghetti against the wall. Instead, I'm pulling this one arrow out of the quiver. I'm aiming it at one bullseye. And when I release it, it hits that bullseye. And it does not fly off somewhere else. I know, because I've been so intentional, whether or not I've hit the bullseye.

Pete: Right. But even, it sounds like, intentional with the target that you're actually aiming at in the first place.

Jen: Exactly.

Pete: Alright.

Jen: But then the question becomes, how do you actually expand your target list? And how do you even organize it? And this was the thing I wanted to share today, is how I think about target lists. And I'm hoping that this is practical and helpful for the listeners. We'll see.

Pete: I'll let you know. It already feels that way. Even the idea of having different targets as an archer, that visual of there's not just one bullseye.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: There's like maybe five, and each one might represent a different thing. Which, I imagine is what you're getting in to. Sorry, I'm getting excited.

Jen: No, no, no. I'm getting excited too. Okay, so I call this The Four P's, which is a little confusing because we have an episode called The Five P's that has nothing to do with this. So instead, we're going to call this Target Lists. But each one of these target lists starts with a P, and they are people, places, positions, purpose.

Pete: I'm just writing this down, great. Four P's: people, places, positions, purpose.

Jen: Okay. So sometimes you actually know the names of the people with whom you wish to connect, so those people would go on your people list.

Pete: Right. Makes sense. The ones you know the name of, yes.

Jen: Great. Great, great, great. But sometimes, you don't know the names of the people with whom you would like to connect but you do know the names of the organizations or associations or communities, the places that you would like to find a sense of connection or community. So, the people are literally people. The places are the places. So for my acting clients, a lot of times, these are the names of the theaters or this might be the name of a producing organization or a network that they're interested in working with.

Pete: Right.

Jen: So, the third P is positions. And you might not know the person's name and you might not know where they work, but you might know what position the person holds with whom you would like to connect. So it might be that the position you're seeking to connect with is the Event Manager. Or it might be that the position you're seeking to connect with is the Casting Director, or the CEO, or the Head of HR.

Pete: You know there is a CEO or a Head of HR in this context or this organization or this place, but you don't know who it is.

Jen: Exactly. Now, pre-pandemic, those were The Three P's. But during the pandemic, I realized I needed to add the fourth P, which is purpose. So many people were discovering that they were lacking purpose in their life during the pandemic, and had to really like dig deep and figure out what they cared about. So purpose essentially causes beliefs, things that you stand for, things that are important to you, and you would want to find an overlap with someone else who holds that same value. So for example, I get really excited when I see a woman-owned organization,

Pete: Right.

Jen: So for me, that goes on my purpose list. Or as a person who works in the theater, I get excited about places that have a focus on having underserved audiences brought in to see the shows, so that is a purpose. So, that would go on that fourth P list. Is this all making sense?

Pete: Making perfect sense, yes, yes, yes. It is.

Jen: Okay, so this is just like a way to organize thinking about building your network. And I cannot be prescriptive about how a person would do this. Some people like spreadsheets. Some people like art projects. Some people like to dance it out. So like, you've got to do it your own way.

Pete: Great, cool. Because I immediately had a spreadsheet in my mind with four different tabs, but I totally recognize that's just my preference.

Jen: Yeah, I've seen people do this all sorts of different ways. Essentially, you just need a way to collect information as it comes to you, and store it in a way that makes sense for you. Yes,

Pete: Yes. So I have four different targets, to go back to your archery metaphor. The targets are: One is people, one is places, one is positions, and one is purpose. And each of those, I'm going to have a different approach for.

Jen: Exactly. And what is really fascinating, as I've done this exercise with literally hundreds of artists at this point, everybody has something that just comes easiest to them. Some people are like, "I know the purpose. And I have no idea who the people are, who would be fulfilling that purpose." But instead of going, "Well, because I don't know any names, I guess I can't build my professional network," instead, you go, "Okay, I know my purpose. Now, I'm going to stay on the lookout for people who publicly state that this is what they believe in."

Pete: Right. Okay, I have a clarifying question or two. One is...there is an intersection somewhere of some of these.

Jen: Yes.

Pete: Does that sound right? Oh, that's not a question. That's an assertion. I'm thinking of a General Manager within a place, like a General Manager of a particular company is both a position but also a place. So I imagine they can come across two different lists, which is good to know. The other one is, is there a hierarchy? Like, do you think it's stronger to have people? Or is it stronger to have a really great list of places? Or it doesn't really matter, it's your own bias?

Jen: I think it doesn't really matter. However, by the time you're ready to actually reach out and introduce yourself to that person, I'd want you to be able to understand all four of the ways they overlap with your lists.

Pete: Oh, nice. Yeah.

Jen: So like, as an example, let's say I'm really excited about women-led organizations or women-owned organizations. So, that's on my purpose list. And I also know that this particular company keeps coming up over and over in conversation, and people are like, "Jen, you would love it there. Like, you've got to meet the people who work there." I might be surfing their site and then realize that they have a female CEO, that might be enough of the push that I need to go, "Oh, this is aligned with something that matters to me. I'm going to reach out." And now, it's not just a, "Just thought I'd reach out." It's, "I'm reaching out because of this particular reason."

Pete: Nice. Yeah, I like that. So it's a way of organizing, which then enables us to be more intentional with when we eventually reach out.

Jen: Exactly. And look, I've had a lot of people go like, "Well, though, what do I do with the lists? Like, it really just keeps growing?" And it's like, "Yeah. Yeah, that's the hope." And what we're trying to do is activate the frequency bias, which is our tendency to notice things after we've noticed it for the first time. You know, like you buy a blue Subaru (like I just did) and everywhere you look, people are driving blue Subarus.

Pete: Yes.

Jen: It's not that there are more blue Subarus in the world, it's that I'm noticing it. So once you commit to noticing, you'll start to see the opportunities all around you. You'll start to see the people who are doing the kind of work you want to do. You'll start to see the places that you want to work showing up more frequently.

Pete: I love it. The overlay, I just realized...you know, you said that often you get asked, "Does the list keep growing? And like, that kind of feels overwhelming." And you're like, "Yeah, the list can and hopefully will keep growing." And the overlap is just a, you know, the book that I am so obsessed with that speaks to a lot of this, in my mind, is Derek Sivers' book, Your Music and People. And it's an amazing handbook. It's basically a handbook (I'm going to put it in the Box O' Goodies) for musicians and artists. But it just applies to, I think, anyone trying to grow their professional network. And the chapter I always think about is, "Assuming your music is really good...let me make that base assumption...your success will be determined by the amount of people that you meet."

Jen: That's right.

Pete: "And that you talk to about your work." And if you can make it that simple, and set a goal for yourself...he talks about someone who set a goal for themselves to connect with a new person like once a day. And after three years, you know, they've met thousands of people, and all of them had had a chance to interact with the music that they wouldn't have had, had she not developed that practice. So I feel like it's a, yeah, it just overlaps with that. But it's a really nice way to organize the list in the first place.

Jen: Yes. And then, here's the thing to remember: You can only reach out to a person. You can't reach out to a position. You can't reach out to a purpose. You can't reach out to a place. Eventually, you've got to reach out to a person. But so many people avoid reaching out because they don't know who the person is. And so, this gives you a way to sort of back in to that and go, "Okay, I'm looking for the HR Manager at this place. And the reason I'm interested in this place is because of what they stand for. What is that person's name?"

Pete: Yeah. And what can I...maybe, "What do I know about them, that would be helpful in this reach out in the first place?"

Jen: Exactly. Exactly.

Pete: I'm thinking of some reach outs that we get. Some spam, I would say, that we get as podcasters that, perhaps they might have ticked the place box in terms of the place is a podcast. "These people have a podcast." And they'll reach out with the most generic reach out ever. They don't know our names. And they'll say something like, "I have a great guest for you and your podcast." And I'm like, "Well, we don't have guests on our podcast, firstly. Secondly, you haven't used our name. Thirdly, the only real thing you've got here is the place, like, "You have a podcast."

Jen: "It's a podcast."

Pete: It's the easiest reach out to ignore, because it's not personal. There's no context that they have demonstrated they understand. It's just, I think it's a living example of what you described (which is so beautiful to remember), which is: You don't reach out to places or the positions. You reach out to people.

Jen: That's right. At the end of the day, you're reaching out to people, which is why they're number one on the target list.

Pete: Yes. So I think that the other three, in my mind, really help build the people list. And that, in my mind, is ultimately the goal. That if I can understand more about the places or the organizations that I want to be involved in or interact with, the positions of the people that I might want to interact with or hopefully end up being involved with, or the purpose-led organizations that are aligned to my purpose, then I can better build my people list, and eventually create that reach out practice off the back of that.

Jen: Right. And when you have all those things, instead of grabbing a handful of wet spaghetti and tossing it and hoping something sticks, you're able to pull that single arrow out of your quiver, aim it at the target, and bullseye, hit it right in the center.

Pete: Just like Jen Waldman at sleepaway camp all those years ago. And that is The Long and The Short Of It.