The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 55 - Thrash to Action

Transcript:

Pete: Hey, Jen.

Jen: Hey, Pete.

Pete: I had a conversation with a client of mine yesterday (phenomenal, mutual client of ours, in fact), and she asked me a really amazing question that I think is worth you and I unpacking.

Jen: Okay. I have no idea what you're talking about. I can't wait to hear.

Pete: I mean, it would help if I told you, right? So the question is- what does it look like to move from thrash to action?

Jen: Yes, "thraction". Let's discuss it. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Pete: "Thraction", very good. So, those that have listened to a few episodes of this podcast might know that this word "thrashing" is something, I think, we both throw around quite a lot. And so maybe it's worth just unpacking what that means, for a second. So, when I think of thrashing, I think of unencumbered thinking. I think of unencumbered brainstorming. I think of getting as many ideas, and stories, and things out of your head, and either onto a page, or into a voice recorder, or onto a whiteboard, as possible. That, so often the hardest part is starting. And so for me, thrashing is trying to make the starting part both fun, creative, and easy. Do you have anything to add on thrashing?

Jen: Yeah, I think about thrashing as just brain-dumping without any regard for what form it takes. It's just like, make a mess with everything you've got to get out of your brain and into a space.

Pete: Yes. Yes. So, I was talking to said client about where they were at in their, in their thrashing, essentially. So they had an idea for a project that they wanted to start, a new and exciting project. And that idea kind of spawned from some thrashing. So, a week or so ago, I gave them a little bit of a prompt. A little bit of homework, if you like, to unpack, you know, what are the things they're interested in working on, and a whole range of questions that I don't necessarily need to go in to. But it was essentially to provoke a thrash. And in the call yesterday we had, she's like, "Alright, I've thrashed for pages and pages and pages. Here's the idea I have. How do I move from thrash to action? Like what does that look like?". And I just thought to myself, "What a brilliant, brilliant question.".

Jen: Mmm! Yes, it is. Because essentially, the skill set that one must build in order to move from thrash to action is a sorting skill set. Being able to look at everything that you have gotten out of your brain and create filters to help you find the clearest, most efficient, most creative (whatever your values are), path forward through all of the brain-dump.

Pete: Yes, exactly. So, my suggestion is probably very unsurprising, in terms of how I kind of prompted this client to move from thrash to action. And that was to fire up a blank Google Doc, and at the top write, "Who's it for?", "Who's it not for?", and, "What's it for?". And underneath, "What's it for?", actually to add, "What change do I seek to make with this project?". So, they were the four prompting questions that I thought would be a great starting point for her to take thrashing, brainstorming, noodling ideas, and start to give them some structure. And start to prioritize, "Who exactly is this idea for?", and, "What exactly am I trying to do with this idea?".

Jen: So, I'm spit-balling here because this is just, this is my thrash on thrashing. That, after you have asked yourself those questions and then answered them in a way that feels full and rich, anything from your brainstorm that doesn't meet the criteria that you've just set for yourself in terms of audience and outcome, can be shelved for perhaps a different project. But things that feel like they could be contributing factors to the change you seek to make need a little more deep digging.

Pete: Mmm. And so, I think that's an interesting point, just to call out, is something that I think many of us might struggle with is...is letting go of some of the things that we've thrashed. It's like, "Oh, I've got so many good ideas in this thrash, though. I don't, I don't want to necessarily limit myself.". And it's like, actually, by getting more specific, by getting more intentional, and by picking or prioritizing certain parts of your brainstorming, of your thrashing, of your noodling- that is how you create specific, meaningful change. So you have to get comfortable with letting some of it go. In fact, probably letting most of it go.

Jen: Oh, yes. And, you just never know when something that came out of your brain, maybe several years ago, is going to come back around and be of service to a new idea. So, it doesn't mean delete. It just means put in a folder called, "Someday, Maybe".

Pete: "Someday, Maybe". Now, the way you said that, I'm putting you on the spot here...but the way you said that suggested you had, like, an example that came to mind for you, of when that happened. Do you? And do you want to share?

Jen: I literally was doing this today, Peter. So, it's ironic that this is the topic. So, at the studio, we're moving into creating some digital courses to help reach more people. More on that in maybe a future episode about: how do you take something that you thought could only be done in-person and then figure out, have the a-ha moment of, "Oh, wait, not all of it could only be done in-person. What about the part that doesn't have to be done in-person? And what about all of these people who keep saying, 'Will you help me?'". So now I've figured out a way, finally, to help the people who say, "Can you please help me?". So I was sitting at my desk, and just giving myself permission to thrash; I was actually using some questions that were provided to me by someone who is helping me sort this out. And I was just writing down anything that came to mind that could be a potential answer to these questions. And then once I looked at it all, I had to say to myself, "What is, like, the most frequently asked question that I get from people? Or what are the, several of them? And which of these ideas could help provide answers to these deep burning questions?". So, that helped me with that first sorting round- is to say, people have told me what they're struggling with. Which of these ideas is most likely to help them with the thing they're struggling with? Some of these ideas are great, but not for this particular "What's it for?". So that was, that was helpful.

Pete: Okay, I love this. So, my response obviously, as I mentioned, was to start with, "Who's it for?", "Who's it not for?", "What's it for?", "What change do you see to make?". Do you have any other immediate thoughts on moving from thrash to action? Because what I'm realizing, even just in having this conversation now, and what I'm remembering is- you, being someone who likes to begin with the end of mind, and me, being someone who likes to just, just kind of show up and do the thing, we probably have different ideas on how one might move from thrash to action.

Jen: So this is...yes. We, we share a lot of similar ways of thinking, but this is not one of them. So, I do have a clear vision for the future that I want to help create, and the world that I want to live in, and the state of...(in alignment with the thrash I was doing today), the state of the industry that I want to help make possible.

Pete: Nice.

Jen: And so, if the thing that I am playing around with in that moment, does not ultimately add up to this long, long view vision that I have for the industry, I'm not going to build it. Because there are other people who can maybe build that for a different purpose. But what I'm really looking to do is create change that is very specific, that I can speak about clearly toward a different future. And so, if the work that I'm doing is not a contribution toward that future, I'm not going to make it. And then the other layer of that, the question that I would ask myself is, "In what way does this allow me to live my Why?". So any future that I'm going to seek to build, I've got to be able to show up and work on that thing every day, feeling completely inspired to do it. And knowing that, working on that is going to allow me to exist as the best version of myself. So even on the hard days, on the days where I want to give up on the project, I can say, "I know that this is an alignment with my Why. And it is in alignment with my vision for the future. So even though it's hard, I'm getting up today and doing the work.".

Pete: Nice. I love how different...I love how different our approaches are to this.

Jen: Yeah, I think it's great. We represent a wide, a wide range.

Pete: Like yeah, I agree. Because I really, I feel like I see you, and I hear you with those amazing ideas from going from thrash to action. And, what I know to be true for myself, and this is kind of what I was sharing with, with the client was, once I have a clear intention, which to me is, "What's it for"...once I have a clear intention on who it's for, who I seek to serve, and once I'm clear on what change I'm seeking to make through this project- for me, it's just like, start. So, I don't mind saying this particular project was a podcast. And so, the question was, "Should I take a course? Should I read a book? Should I read a blog about podcasting, once I've got these questions answered?". And I was like, "I will just share my experience, because it's not me to tell you what to do. But my experience is- start. My experience is- the quicker you record a podcast the more you will learn, the better you will get. That the way to get good at podcasting, is by podcasting. The way to get good at writing, is by writing. The way to move a project forward, in my opinion, is by doing the project, is by starting it.". And so, that was kind of, that was kind of my take on it was, "What if you just started?". And you don't have to use, you know, the first three, or four, or five, or six recordings that you do. You could just use that as practice. You don't have to release them into the wild. But for me, it was like, once you've set intention, once you've thought about who it's for, go. Start. Make the thing.

Jen: I love that. And...

Pete: [laughter] I knew there was an "and".

Jen: [laughter] I mean, okay, so this is where we're different. See, for me, I would want...I don't necessarily need to map out the details of every single step along the way. But...okay, you're talking about a podcast. Let me use my digital courses as an example. Okay, so I decided I wanted to do this. I went through the "Who's it for?", "What's it for?". And then the next thing I did was put the date of the release in my calendar. Because if it's not in my calendar, it's not real. So now that I have the release date, I'm able to look at all of my resources that I know I have between this moment in time and that moment in time, and decide how to allocate them. I don't know what I'm going to be doing with the money, the time, the relationships, but I know that I need to budget them- the money, the time, the relationships, etc. Because if I'm going to meet this ship date that I have set, that is going to inform all of the choices I make every single day, because I've committed myself to doing this project. So, I agree with you. Like, start. And, have some sense of what, what you're working toward. Or at least what a temporary finish line looks like, or even, like, a milestone.

Pete: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, building on that, what, what I also would suggest (and this is where I was very lucky in terms of having you, and having our podcast, when we started our podcast), which is- find an accountability buddy, or a collaborator, or someone to give you feedback. That, going alone from moving from thrash to action is really, really hard. And that it is valuable having a co-collaborator, or a coach, or a friend, or a mentor, or whoever it is, to keep you accountable when the dip comes, when the inspiration wanes. Because, one thing we know for sure, and we did an episode on The Dip recently, one thing we know for sure is, that moment will come. That, there will be a moment when you've moved from thrash, you've moved into action, and you are a number of weeks into action, and you're like, "Oh my god, what have I done? I don't want to do this anymore. This sucks. Who am I? Why am I doing this thing? Maybe I'll just quit.". And that a really, really helpful way of working through that is by having someone to keep you accountable, someone to talk to, someone to ask you questions, and someone to remind you of who your work was intended to be for, and why you set out to do this in the first place. So find your Jen to your Pete. Find your Short to your Long.

Jen: [laughter] I love that. So, I want to propose a pathway that I think we may have articulated without articulating it. So, is it possible that the road from thrash to action looks like this? Thrash. Sort. Decide. Strategize. Start.

Pete: Wow. I like that. Yeah. It's almost like a little map.

Jen: And I was originally going to say, "Plan. Start.". But I switched it to "Strategize.", because...

Pete: I appreciate that.

Jen: ...your strategy is to not plan. And my strategy is to plan. So, in both cases, we're strategizing. So- Thrash. Sort. Decide. Strategize. Start.

Pete: Yeah, nice. I appreciate the re-frame on "Plan.". The other thing I just wanted to point out, which I sort of touched on just before, but that is- being mindful of one's level of motivation and inspiration at the various stages of that, of that process. So what was clear in this conversation I had with my client, to use her as an example, is she was on fire. Like she was fired up, feeling creative, ready to go. She'd done her thrashing. She's like, "I want to move into action right now. How do I bring this thing to life?". And I was like, "This is amazing. Here are some ideas. Also, be mindful. You won't always feel this fired up. Like, there will be a moment...there will be many moments where you start to feel doubt, and insecurity, and questions.". And just reminding them that- on that road, The Dip exists. So I just wanted to say that out loud.

Jen: Yes. It also makes me think about complexity. Like, creating a podcast...now, this is coming from someone who literally just shows up at the appointed time and speaks into a microphone, I don't do any of the production work. So, you know, take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt. But, doing a self-produced podcast that doesn't have sponsors, and doesn't have any corporate interference, the complexity level is fairly low. But certain projects, like, um, produce a Broadway musical. Or even the project I'm taking on right now of creating a digital course is significantly complex, where there are a lot of moving parts, and a lot of the moving parts have dependencies- that one thing can't move forward until something else has already been established or decided. So, I do think it's just worth calling out that after a thrash, if what comes out of your thrashing session is a potential project, it is important if you are dealing with a complex project, to have a sense of what those parts are going to be before you start. Because otherwise you may end up having to start all over again.

Pete: Yes. And, if it is a project that you have control over, like a podcast, what I love about that is you get to decide how complex you make it. You get to decide how simple you make it. And in actual fact, what I reflected back to this client, to close the loop on it, in terms of starting a podcast, I would keep the friction low. I would, I would keep it as uncomplex as possible. So, you could go down the path of trying to create a highly-edited podcast, with sponsors and advertisements, and all of that. But is that really what it's for? Are you creating unnecessary complexity? And that part of the exciting part, for me, of having something like a podcast, or creating something like a blog, or starting your own little project is- you get to decide how complex it is. And I think it's worth calling that out. Because sometimes, we can hide in complexity, and we can make things way more complicated than they need to be. So that's sort of the inverse of what you were saying.

Jen: Mmm, yeah, yeah. So I guess that comes during the "Decide" and "Strategize" phase of the action path from...the "thraction" path, as it were, is to really just give yourself a moment to take a look at what you're dealing with, and make sure that you haven't created a great hiding spot for yourself. And if you are standing out of the hiding spot to get real with how many moving pieces are there, and do you need them all?

Pete: Mm-hm. So, to summarize, could you walk us through that little map that you drew again, Jen?

Jen: Yes. Let me go backwards, Peter. Because you know, that's how I like to go. So, if the idea is to start something, then the...moving backwards to the beginning of the path from Start, you back it up to Strategize. In order to Strategize, you had to have first Decided. In order to Decide, you had to Sort. And in order to have something to Sort, you had to Thrash. So the path, the thraction path is- Thrash. Sort. Decide. Strategize. Start.

Pete: And it's just so meta that you worked backwards, from the end to the start.

Jen: Mm-hm.

Pete: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.