The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 100 - Episode 100

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: Hello, Jennifer (for the 100th time).

Jen: It's a big day today. This is our 100th episode. Yay!

Pete: Happy 100!

Jen: Happy 100 to you too. So last week on the Milestones episode, we talked about using this milestone as an opportunity to bring people together to celebrate. And that looked like asking members of our Facebook group to contribute to today's podcast.

Pete: Yes, indeed. So we have a delightful list of questions. And perhaps we can get through as many as we can in the next twenty minutes.

Jen: Sounds good. Let's do it.

Pete: This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Jen: Alright. I guess we'll just pick the first ones that grab our attention. Okay, so these questions came from our Facebook group, which...Pete, how do people join that if they want to?

Pete: I mean, just search The Long and The Short Of It on Facebook or you can go to facebook.com/thelongandtheshortofit. And they should find it. That's where we are.

Jen: Okay, well, that's easy enough.

Pete: Come on over.

Jen: Come on over and celebrate. Okay, so let's just take these in no particular order.

Pete: Mm-hmm. Let's pick one at random.

Jen: Okay.

Pete: You know how we love unscripted. Let's go.

Jen: Do you want to go first, or do you want me to go first?

Pete: You pick one.

Jen: Since we're talking about Facebook, this first question comes from Abbie Pierce.

Pete: Mm-hmm.

Jen: And I love this question.

Pete: It's so good.

Jen: "Social media: Field of possibilities or 'wretched hive of villainy'?"

Pete: [laughter] Ah, I mean, I just want to pick wretched hive of villainy because of the way it's so beautifully worded. And I suspect the answer might be both. So...well, at least where my head went was maybe it's both. So depending on what day it is, depending on what hour of the day, depending on what's happening in the world, Abbie, I feel like my answer to this question will be different.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: But if I, if I try and look from a fairly neutral perspective, I can see ways that Jen and I, for example, have used social media in a way that suggests it's a field of possibilities. So we have The Long and The Short Of It Instagram account, which we've created, killed, revived, it's now alive and thriving. And it's a bunch of fun. And we put up quotes, and we get some really cool interaction with some of the things that were said in the podcast. So that feels like it's full of possibility, and hope, and people are sharing it. And I'm like, "Oh, that's cool." And then (you know, like a lot of us), you every now and then jump on Instagram, or Facebook, or Twitter, or LinkedIn, or whatever your platform of choice is, and you see something and you're like "What?" And you feel it in your body. I don't know if you've felt that. You feel that, like, bubbling tension just rise up in your body. I got a comment on one of my posts the other day. So my blog auto posts onto LinkedIn, and I'd kind of forgotten about it. And I went on there the other day, and there was a comment from someone who I haven't spoken to in must be seven years. And it was not the most generous and generative comment, put it that way. And I was like, "Huh." And I felt that bubbling tension rise up in my stomach and I was kind of like, "What? Why? I don't know if I need this. I don't know if I need LinkedIn." And so a long way of saying, I think depending on what time of day it is, depending on what's happening in the world, but also depending on how you use it, it could be either/or, or both/and.

Jen: Yeah. I think my answer to "Social media: Field of possibilities or 'wretched hive of villainy,'" is yes. [laughter] But to your point, it really is all about how you set it up and how you engage with it. Like, I use Instagram now. Oh my goodness.

Pete: I know.

Jen: Cue the shocked face emojis. [laughter] And I use Instagram as a field of possibilities. Like, I'm only posting things on there that are looking for possibility. But I don't actually consume Instagram at all. I don't scroll. I don't even really understand it. So, I post things there but I don't actually consume it. And then on Facebook, as I've mentioned many times on this podcast, I have installed a Newsfeed Eradicator. So I don't scroll Facebook, I only go to pre-designated spaces on Facebook where my communities hang out. And that feels full of possibility. But why did I make the choice to install the Newsfeed Eradicator? Because prior to that, it was indeed a wretched, wretched hive of villainy.

Pete: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. What a great question. Thank you Abbie Pierce. Okay, I'm going to pick another one. David Youings asks, "Does the Four Tendency framework lean on a fixed mindset? If I want to be more Upholdery or Questionery, can I change my natural tendency?" (Questionery. That's a hard word to say.) "Can I change my natural tendency?" Mmm. What do you think, Jennifer?

Jen: I do not believe the Four Tendency framework leans on a fixed mindset. I think the whole point behind identifying your tendency is so that you can enable yourself to learn, and grow, and optimize. As opposed to saying, "Well, I am an Obliger. Therefore, I'm an obliger. Nothing I can do about it." So, I actually think it's quite the contrary. That people who use the Four Tendency framework in order to create habits and optimize their behaviors are actually doing so with a growth mindset.

Pete: Mmm. I love that. I love that. I would say I think the answer, or my answer also comes in the word choice that you mentioned, or that is mentioned in the title, which is "tendency". So to me, that indicates that whatever of the four you check out as according to the quiz (or the test), it's what you tend towards. It doesn't mean that's a rule of law that you cannot possibly deviate from. So to the second part of your question, if I want to be more Upholdery or Questionery, David, I think yes. You can be. It just requires more effort, more intention because your tendency, naturally, is to default to one. So for me, my tendency is to default to Upholder. That's not to say I can't sit there and ask a thousand questions, and pretend to be a Questioner. It just requires more effort and more intention. So, yeah, I think you can hide in a tendency, if you choose to. But I think if you are willing to show up with intention and a little bit of effort, you can totally switch up your tendency, if you like. Hmm.

Jen: Okay. Here's one from our bestie Dana Ray.

Pete: Dana! We should tell that story one day.

Jen: Well, let's tell it right now. Okay.

Pete: Okay.

Jen: Dana Ray is a very brilliant listener of this podcast. And she had gone to our website and saw the "Work With Us" button, and I guess had decided that that meant we're seeking collaborators, and had sent us this message to that effect. And then after she hit send, she was like, "Oh no. That didn't mean 'Would you like to be my collaborator?'" And then she did this whole video on Instagram (which you can go find) where she explains the whole debacle. And Pete and I loved it so much that we actually have become friendly with Dana Ray.

Pete: It actually worked, in a way. It worked.

Jen: Yeah. And she's awesome. I recently did an interview with her. And then I was looking for some help with some clients, and she sent me a bunch of names of people I could reach out to for that help. I mean, she's really cool. Anyway, this is her question.

Pete: Perfect. Thank you, Dana.

Jen: "What's the difference between Austin Kleon's idea 'Steal Like an Artist" and...actual stealing? What does it mean to be a good citizen with 'idea sharing', both in how we use ideas we hear, and how we share ideas we have?"

Pete: Oof.

Jen: Oh, I love this question, Dana Ray.

Pete: The first thing that comes to mind when I read that is the difference is, "Yes, and." What I mean by that is stealing like an artist is taking something that exists and building on it. So, "Yes, I see this thing that Jen Waldman has done, and I'm going to add my take to it, my interpretation, my two cents on top of that, while also giving credit to Jen where credit is due." So the difference, to me, is I'm not just carbon copying what Jen did and not giving her any credit. The difference in my head is, "So Jen Waldman talks about this idea, and here's how I've interpreted it." And I think you and I have a bunch of examples of where we try and do this throughout the podcast where, "Seth Godin says this...or, Brene Brown says that..." and then try and build on those thought leaders. So, that's how I think about. It's, "Yes, and."

Jen: I agree so much, Peter. That part of stealing like an artist is adding some new element or new perspective. Recently, I've been trying to define what an artist actually is. I recently wrote a blog post about this, I'll include it in the Box O' Goodies. And I've been trying to land on the simplest, most concise definition. And here's what I've landed on. An artist is someone who renders the human experience, in whatever form. And so, to steal like an artist would mean to take an idea and imbue it with a perspective of the human experience that it didn't previously contain. And to your point, credit is so important.

Pete: Mmm. Yeah.

Jen: Now to her second question, "What does it mean to be a good citizen with idea sharing, both in how we use ideas we hear, and how we share ideas we have?" I mean, the first part of that is easy. It's give credit where credit is due. "I heard this on a podcast, I read this in a book, I learned this from my teacher," whatever that might be. How we share ideas we have, that is interesting to me. Because I've said this to you before, Peter (and I might have even have said it on this podcast), for many years I didn't share any ideas because I was so afraid of them being stolen.

Pete: Mm-hmm.

Jen: So I think there's also part of letting go and knowing you can only control the things you can control, which is how generously you show up in the world.

Pete: Yeah, I think my answer to that second part is share them. Is, there's an adage I'm trying to remember but it's essentially like, if I have $1 and you have $1, Jen, and I give you my dollar, you have $2 and I have zero. But if you have an idea and I have an idea, and I tell you my idea and you tell me your idea, we both have two ideas. That sharing ideas is generative and generous, and so share them.

Jen: Thanks, Dana Ray.

Pete: Alright, I'm going to hop over the ditch to New Zealand, which is the expression we use between Australia and New Zealand, Jen, if you're wondering. Across the ditch.

Jen: I was wondering. I was definitely wondering.

Pete: To friend of the pod Ryan Jennings, who asks, "How does achieving a seemingly impossible milestone feel? And does it help or hinder further creative work?" I guess he's referring to Episode 100.

Jen: Well, I find there are so many layers we could excavate within this question.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: Because first of all, I don't know that either one of us ever thought of Episode 100 as seemingly impossible, but perhaps that's because I don't know that either one of us actually set our sights on ever reaching Episode 100. So that's sort of interesting. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on that, Pete. And then for the second part, does it help or hinder further creative work? I think it helps. I think having accomplished something is fuel to (well, we talked about this a bit in the Milestones episode), fuel to raise the bar and say like, "Wow, what's next? What's more?

Pete: Yeah. Yeah, I think the...I feel like I have some additional context as to why this question might be particularly framed this way. I know Ryan Jennings has a, once recorded a brilliant podcast where he interviewed one hundred CEOs from New Zealand and across one hundred episodes. And so the idea to him at the start was, "I'm going to create one hundred episodes."

Jen: Ahh.

Pete: And to your point, our intention was never, "We're going to record one hundred episodes." And so I wonder if that's why we haven't thought of it as seemingly impossible, because it's like we almost didn't even think about it. We were just like, "If we just keep showing up and recording and practicing and having fun, yeah, we might end up at one hundred if we want to keep going." But it wasn't like, it was never the target. It was never the goal. So, yeah. And then, I totally agree with not hindering, but helping. That this makes us, this makes me more fired up, more inspired, more excited to continue to show up in this podcast. I don't think, "We've reached one hundred. Now, I'm not going to do this anymore." I'm like, "Let's keep going. This is so much fun. We've done one hundred of these!"

Jen: And then, this question is making me think like, "Are we aiming for, like, do we know what our next milestone is?" And I actually feel like, no. I have no idea if we're aiming for two hundred. I just, I don't know. I'm going to keep showing up for as long as you're willing to have conversations with me, and we'll see where it takes us.

Pete: Me too. Me too.

Jen: Okay, so let's take this question from Jana Dore. "If one hundred people were in a room, what's the topic you'd most want to address the crowd about?"

Pete: Hmm. Hey, Jana Dore. She's a dear friend of mine. Your pronunciation was spot on, Jennifer. What would I want...? I mean, I feel a little torn with this question. Because every time we release an episode, we get a couple thousand downloads. So I feel like we have those hundred people and more in the room when we talk about things on this podcast. So I feel a little conflicted of like, "Oh, we just record an episode of the podcast with Jen, like we usually do, on the topic that is relevant to that moment in time." And so, maybe you have...maybe you, like, share, and I'll think of whether there's a topic.

Jen: Well, I would like to select the one hundred people. Like, I'd want to know who the one hundred people are. So, I guess I want to add a question. So, who are the one hundred people you'd like to place into a room and discuss something specific with? So, my one hundred people would be people in leadership roles in major institutions or companies. And I'd like to talk to them about bringing more art and artistry into their spaces. I've been thinking about this a lot, because, you know, with the theatre industry being shut down there all of these artists who are currently unemployed and who possess skills that most of the world needs.

Pete: Oh yeah.

Jen: And I'd like to see people in positions to bring those artists into their organizations actually do that, so that we can bring more (to my earlier point, about what does an artist do), more humanity into the work environment.

Pete: Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. Yeah, I will just double down on that idea. As someone who's come from the other side of the world and interacted with well, literally and figuratively...in terms of from the corporates and startups, into your community in your world, the amount of creativity, the amount of joy, the amount of intention, the amount of integrity, the amount of artistry that your community has is like, it just, it can't help but fill me with so much hope if I think about those folks infiltrating and changing organizations. Yeah. So, I'll get down with that one hundred people in the room.

Jen: Yes.

Pete: Alright. Should we do one more? Let's do one more.

Jen: Let's do it.

Pete: Taylor Harrington. Hey, Taylor.

Jen: Hey, Taylor.

Pete: She asks very generously, in typical Taylor Harrington fashion, "What do you want? I was asked this recently and realized it's rare to take the time to think about it. And it makes me wonder if we as listeners can help you get there."

Jen: Ooh, Taylor, this question is juicy and appreciated. We want to help people who possess changemaking ideas to have any tools possible to share those ideas generously and effectively. That is really what we want. So what does that actually look like tangibly? We want more listeners with changemaking ideas, so that we can help provide some tools for them to share their ideas generously. So how can you help us, listeners? Share this podcast with someone who you think could use it. And then personally, what do I want? I want a world where artists are valued and treasured and appreciated, and where they can give their gifts in such a way that people can actually change the world for the better when they interact with artists, in whatever form that might take. That's what I want.

Pete: Hmm. Beautiful. And you know, you probably know, Jen, I experience tension with this question.

Jen: I do know this.

Pete: I've been asked this question a lot recently. "What do you want? What do you want, Pete?" And it creates all sorts of tension in me, which is possibly another episode of the podcast. So I want to re-, I found a reframe for the question. The answer to which I think is similar, but I feel a lot more at peace with this question. And the question is: What do you care about? And so, as a team, I care about everything that Jen mentioned. I care about helping as many people with brilliant ideas as possible bring them to the world. And how you can help us with that, to Jen's point, take a screenshot of this episode right now. Share it with as many people as you think would be interested. Join our Facebook group. Engage in the conversation. Come to our Learning Labs. Sign up for the Box O' Goodies at our website. Like, all of these things help get this podcast into the ears of people who have brilliant ideas that can help change the world. So yes, that. And personally, I mean I've recently lived by this idea of doing meaningful work with interesting people. And I think the thing I care about, the thing I "want" (in air quotes, with a little cringe) is I want others to do the same. I want as many people as possible to be doing meaningful work (based on their definition of meaningful) with interesting people (based on their definition of interesting).

Jen: Oh, well, Pete, I gotta say that I feel like with you, I'm doing meaningful work with an interesting person.

Pete: Ah, stop it.

Jen: So I'm really happy about that. And I can't believe...well, actually, I can because here we are recording it. But this is Episode 100.

Pete: 100.

Jen: Wow. So thank you, listeners, for tuning in. Some of you have been with us since Episode One, which is just mind blowing to think about. So, thank you for continuing this journey with us, we're very excited to see where this leads. And here's to the next 100.

Pete: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.