The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 104 - Public Speaking

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, listeners. Before we get to this week's episode, Pete and I want to remind you about the Big Ideas Lab. This is our upcoming intensive six-week workshop for people with changemaking ideas who are ready to learn the skills, tools, and techniques for creating and delivering high-impact content. If you are ready to get your big idea out of your head and into the world, we are so ready for you. We released a bonus episode of this podcast last week with all of the details you could ever want to know about the Big Ideas Lab, so go ahead and check it out.

Pete: It's all very, very exciting, Jen. So if you're interested, head on over to the website, thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/bigideaslab, where you will find all of the information that you need around dates. It is going to start on the 5th of October, and applications are open until the 1st of October, or until the class is full. We want to keep it small and intimate so that each and every one of you gets intimate access to Jen and I, and is able to get the feedback and the coaching that you need to bring your big idea to the world. So head on over to the website, thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/bigideaslab. And for now, enjoy this week's episode.

Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: Hello, Jennifer.

Jen: I have an item to add to the Fear Menu. You know, that menu we've been writing ever since episode, maybe, one, of all the different fears we can choose from.

Pete: Yeah. We had the onion. We had a bunch of other fears, at some point. I think there was a cake mentioned. So, let's add something else to the menu.

Jen: Today, I'm adding FOPS.

Pete: FOPS.

Jen: Fear Of Public Speaking.

Pete: Oh, yes. The old FOPS. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Jen: I've been thinking about public speaking a lot. As you might imagine, Peter, as we have the Big Ideas Lab coming up.

Pete: Yes. Very true.

Jen: And I want to talk a bit about why people are afraid of public speaking, and what's at the root of it. I mean, I'm sure you've heard this before. But when the average person is asked about their greatest fear, topping the list, on average, is the fear of public speaking. Like, more fearful of public speaking than drowning, or fire, or any number of other possible disasters.

Pete: Yeah. We fear public speaking more than death, is like the anecdote that I've heard. And I'm like, "How does that...that doesn't even make sense. How could we...? It doesn't make sense."

Jen: So I would like to assert that, like any stinky fear onion, FOPS is just the outer layer. And when you pull back the fear of public speaking, what you find underneath is (and I'm sure this will be no surprise to you, Peter) FOPO. Fear Of People's Opinions. Why do we fear public speaking? Because we're worried. "What will they think of me? Will people like me? Will they laugh at me? Will they think I'm stupid? Will I look foolish? Will I get heckled? Will someone post what I'm saying on social media and take it out of context?" You know, all of these fears amount to what other people think of us. And the truth is FOPS and FOPO, they are a pretty dangerous combination. Because what they keep us all from are the ideas that can change the world.

Pete: Mmm. Mmm, mmm, mmm. Because the only way to create change is to share ideas, right?

Jen: Oh, yes. Indeed.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: Whether that's on a micro scale or a macro scale. You don't need to be delivering addresses to hundreds of thousands of people in order to deal with the fear of public speaking. Sometimes your public is the equivalent of a single person. Like your boss, or your parent, or sibling, or friend, or colleague.

Pete: Mmm. Mm-hmm. I like that. It's juicy. Because the first thing that comes to my mind is certain publics can often be more daunting than others. So I don't know if you experience this, but I've experienced this myself. That I would rather talk to...if I'm doing a keynote, I'd rather deliver it to a room of a thousand strangers than have my five family members sitting on the couch, waiting for me to practice. That brings more fear to me than like, "I'll just do it in front of a thousand people. Don't worry about it. I don't want to do it in front of the five." So that "public" (whoever that is)...I feel like that can change the story as well.

Jen: Oh, yes. I mean, it's so funny. When I'm working with my acting clients, very often they say that I make them more nervous than the people they would actually be auditioning for, because they actually care what I think.

Pete: Yes, yes.

Jen: And I think that's true in your situation, too. And we also go into these scenarios like practicing with your family, as an example, where the people we're talking to have preconceived ideas of who we are, how we think, how we identify, what we care about. And so, sometimes it can be a lot more scary to share your idea with someone who has a presupposition about all of those things. Whereas sharing with a stranger who doesn't have any assumptions about what you care about, who you are, how you're going to do, can be a little bit easier.

Pete: Mmm. That feels really rich. And I definitely didn't expect to go in this direction.

Jen: Me either.

Pete: However, it actually makes me think of you and I. And maybe this is fresh because just this week we were interviewed on a podcast together. And we talked about like, the origin story of how we met, and what trust means for us and how we built it. And it was funny, we were kind of both sharing that because...it was almost like because we knew so little about one another, we just kind of both felt comfortable just being ourselves and not necessarily being worried about context, or history of how I might be perceived based on what you know about me. Because you knew nothing about me, and vice versa. And so, I know that is a little off topic. But I think it's related in the sense that our fear of people's opinion is often so caught up in sunk costs, or past stories and context and experiences. And that can, I guess, get in our head and limit us in a way.

Jen: Absolutely. Do you remember in...I think it's in Dare to Lead. Brene Brown talks about having to deliver a keynote. And she's so nervous backstage, and she's sort of freaking out and feeling all this imposter stuff. And she just started repeating this mantra to herself, "People, people, people." That these are people out there. And for anyone who finds themself in that Brene Brown position...first of all, yay, let us all be more like Brene. But anyone who finds themself in that position where they have something meaningful and important to share, and the fact that there is an audience or a mob or a group watching them, just remember (I mean, this goes back to Saunder) that every single person in that audience is an individual. They're not a multi-headed beast. Each person has their own individual story, and needs, and wants, and hopes, and desires, and dreams, and worries, and cares, and delights.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: So, you know, one of the things I often share with people who I'm helping prepare a keynote or some sort of a workshop situation where they're feeling that fear is to actually just look for one set of eyes and connect with one person at a time, instead of trying to take in the whole thing.

Pete: Ah, nice.

Jen: So that connection to one person at a time...and what's interesting is there's this sort of chemical reaction with the rest of the audience where even though I might not be looking at you, for example, Peter, if I am genuinely connecting with one person on the other side of the audience, you will feel connected. Because you cannot fake authentic human connection. You can feel it in the air. You can sense it in your body. So one of those ways to overcome that fear of public speaking (once you've found the courage to actually get on the stage, or at the board table, or wherever you are) is to talk to one person at a time.

Pete: Hmm, I like that. I would build off that by saying one of the things I find most helpful to remember in...I feel like in all of the work that I do, but just in life in general. Whether it's delivering a workshop, or a keynote, or an online class, or whatever it is, is that it's not about you.

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Pete: I think the fear of what other people think of us is actually...you know, they talk about it in that book that you and I both read, called The Courage to Be Disliked. They talk about that if you're worried about what other people think of you, it's actually self-centered because you're making everything about you.

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Pete: And so the reframe I think about, I've heard, I think plenty of other speakers talk about this before is like, you're here in service of the people in the audience. So to your point, if you can just serve that one person that you're making eye contact with, knowing it's not about you, it's about serving that person, and give them a little aha moment, or give them a story that will resonate, then that's like, that's your job. That's success. And to your point, other people in the room will feel that, feed off that, and hopefully they'll have a little aha moment as well.

Jen: Oh, this is really bringing something up for me, which is the difference between someone who wants to be a public speaker, and someone who has an idea to share and one of the ways they share it is through speaking in public. You know, someone who wants to be a public speaker...and if you actually have a conversation with someone who says (I've had a couple of these in the past), you know, "I really want to be a public speaker, and I'm wondering if you can teach me how to be a public speaker." And then I say, "Well, what do you want to speak about?" "Uh..." Well, no, then I can't help you. I can't help you.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: Because public speaking is an act of service. It's not about putting the spotlight on you so that you can find your platform, and you can gain notoriety and status. Having something to say requires saying it in public, and that's why it's so necessary to combat that fear. Not to pretend like it doesn't exist, but to actually have the tools to move through it so that you can get in front of whoever needs to hear your message and share it. Because ultimately, like you said, it is not about you. It is about the message. It's not about you. It's about the change. It's not about you. It's about the audience.

Pete: Yeah. Yeah. That reminds me of something you once told me about almost like rules for public speaking, or rules for giving a talk. I think you told me this. And the first rule was like, "Never speak about something that you don't know, or you don't understand." Or the inverse, I guess, "Always speak about something that you know and understand.

Jen: Mm-hmm. Yeah, you know, that was a lesson I had to learn early on when I started delivering keynotes. Because very early in my keynote career, I didn't understand that my arts background was an advantage that I held. I didn't really understand that my Broadway experience was going to provide some sort of intriguing curiosity. And so what I made the mistake of doing early on was trying to almost hide my arts background, and speak as if I knew the industry that my audience was in. So I would, you know, like go into a healthcare organization and start talking about healthcare as if I knew anything about healthcare. And I finally had to recognize that the times when I would let slip a Broadway reference, or talk about, you know, when I was working as an actor, or, "When I'm working with my Broadway clients...", that's when I would see people sort of sit up in their chairs.

Pete: Mm-hmm.

Jen: And so like, recognizing that each of us really does bring our own unique perspective, it's such an advantage. If I had any advice to my younger self, it would really be to lead with what you know, and lead with what you care about. Because just like that authentic human connection I was talking about earlier, people can sniff out BS a mile away. And equally, they can sense when you are speaking your truth.

Pete: Mmm. Yeah. Mmm. Okay, so do we have any other tips or tricks or riffs on how we might help folks, how you might think about coaching folks (because you and I both do this through the Big Ideas Lab, but through one-on-one work) with public speaking or the fear of public speaking? I have an idea, but I want to hear from you first.

Jen: I really think that the success of any public speaking moment is determined by the first moment. Like you have to get out of the gate really, really well. If you don't earn the trust of your audience, whether it's an audience of two or an audience of two hundred thousand, if you don't earn their trust in those first moments, it's really hard to get them back. So when I'm coaching people for talks, speeches, etc., we do a lot of rehearsing of that first moment. Of...and not just the first time words come out of your mouth, but waiting backstage. When we run the Big Ideas Lab, one of the most fun things is to ask people to stand there while we read their bio in front of people.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: I mean, that is like the most uncomfortable thing. When you're standing there and someone you've never met is introducing you, and they've rearranged your bio, or rewritten it and put credits you never would have included in there. And you have to stand there and take it so confidently. Not because you want to pretend, but because that's what the audience deserves. So I always focus on like, what is happening before you're introduced, while you're introduced, when you take your space, and then that very first sentence that comes out of your mouth. Those are things I spend a lot of time on.

Pete: Mmm, nice. I think about reps a lot. That, you know, like anything, the best way to be a better public speaker is probably to talk more, to do more public speaking.

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Pete: And that can take so many forms. Like, it doesn't have to be always talking to a roomful of a thousand people. That's not necessarily how you get reps. You could get reps through recording it as a podcast. You could get reps through sharing your idea with one other person on Zoom, or sharing it. Like I do often with you, I'll record myself and just send it to you via Slack, and then you'll send me feedback. Like that, to me, is reps. And, you know, in the past, I used to have...I do this a lot actually, like put talking points in the shower. I put talking points in the shower. And so every time in the shower, I'll just like pick a section and just practice that one section. And it might just be the intro, or it might just be like one of the stories in the middle. And yeah, even though I know my stories (because they're my stories) very well, there is something in just getting reps in over and over and over and over again. So that if and when you get nervous and you like, the light shines on you and you're like, "Oh my god...", you know you have the reps to fall back on. So there's that famous quote, which I've always quite liked, that we don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training. And so I think about that so much, training as it relates to reps. And so if you can "fall" to a level of preparation, a level of training that is really quite solid and sound, then it's going to be okay. Everything's going to be okay.

Jen: Absolutely. I do have one other little trick.

Pete: Please.

Jen: That, it comes in two different forms. So, it depends on what kind of a person you are. So one is some people, before they speak, like to have a theme song. Kind of like in American baseball, when people come up to the plate to bat, each player has a song that plays. It's like, you know, it gets them ready to go.

Pete: Oh, really? They pick their own song?

Jen: Yeah, they pick their own song. So for some people, imagining that song playing in their head is like really good muscle memory for what it feels like to be the speaker version of yourself. Now, that's not necessarily my preferred method. But I've used that with a lot of people in the past who that resonates with. My preferred method is to have a mantra. So my mantra was actually gifted to me by a friend, and it's so simple. "Show up to give." And if I'm feeling nervous, I just repeat that over and over to myself. "Show up to give. Show up to give. Show up to give." And then, the other stuff starts to fall away. Because as long as I give what I came here to give, somebody out there in the audience is going to receive it. I might not land with every single person. But if I'm able to show up for...you know the old saying, "Change at least one person." I would like to land with more than one person, but I don't need to land with everyone. If I've given my best and it has been received, that's a great thing.

Pete: Hmm. Your mantra trick just reminded me of something I do, which I'd kind of forgotten about. And that is that I have a particular outfit. I wear the same thing for almost every keynote.

Jen: Really?

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: Me too.

Pete: And it's like, I heard it once about creating uniforms to like trick your brain into being like, "Oh, okay, we're going into keynote mode now." And so, I have a few versions of the same outfit, basically. And I'll always wear a version of that outfit.

Jen: So do I. Because I know who I am when I'm wearing that. I know what it means. I know what it feels like to be in those shoes. I know what it feels like to be in those pants. I hold myself a certain way because that is the costume that I associate with that particular character: Jen, the public speaker, who is showing up in service of the audience.

Pete: Mmm. Alright, so what do we make of this stinky onion that we've kind of peeled right back, and unpacked, and named FOPS. Is that what you called it? FOPS: Fear Of Public Speaking.

Jen: FOPS: Fear Of Public Speaking. Here's what I make of it...audience members, listeners of The Long and The Short Of It, the next time you hear yourself say, "I have a fear of public speaking," pause, rewind, and rephrase. "I have a fear of what other people think of me." Because just hearing yourself say it will help you move through it. It's not the speaking, it's the people. And then you can lean into your empathy, and remember that every single person, a human being with a heart and a soul that you're speaking to, needs what you have to give.

Pete: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.