The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 110 - Superpowers

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: Hello, Jen.

Jen: Well, today in one of my classes someone brought up compartmentalization, which happens to be my superpower. So I thought perhaps we could unpack compartmentalization, superpowers, and anything else that might lead to.

Pete: You're willing to unpack one of your compartments? I'm up for it. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Jen: Okay, I should say that while compartmentalization is...well, I called it my superpower. It's really like an Achilles heel. It is the thing that brought us together. Because about three years ago, Pete, you and I had a coaching when I was doing the altMBA, and you were coaching the altMBA. And you asked me a question that shook me to my core, and I could feel the reverberations within every inch of my life. You asked a really simple question, which was, "What does it look like if you lift the walls?" And I was like, "Woah. As a compartmentalizer, that is a terrifying process."

Pete: Which I should say I only asked in the context of the decision, or the situation that you'd outlined. Because I didn't know that you were a compartmentalizer in the rest of your life, too. So I was like, "Oh, there's this one specific example you've shared. I feel like you could lift the walls there. And what would that look like?" And it turns out there were reverberations that I didn't know about.

Jen: Yes. Because when I asked myself, "Where could I lift the walls?"...it turned out that the answer to that question was, "Everywhere." Really, everywhere.

Pete: Everywhere.

Jen: Yeah. I mean, as a professional compartmentalizer, there were lots of places for me to apply that sort of thinking.

Pete: Hmm. So, you mentioned it being a superpower. And you even mentioned there, a "professional compartmentalizer". I wonder, how has it served you to be very good at compartmentalizing? Because I feel like you wouldn't have...it wouldn't be a habit, or a skill, or a superpower if it didn't serve you in some way. So, I feel like there's perhaps a context here where compartmentalizing can serve you in some way. And then we could maybe talk about how we kind of...I feel like everybody listening knows that it doesn't serve us in many ways. So, how does it serve Jen? Or how do you think about that?

Jen: Yeah, that's actually...it's a really good point. Because I say it's my Achilles heel, and then like in the same breath, I say it's my superpower. So you're right, there is a sort of like flip/flop, Yin and Yang, it's good and it's terrible. I mean, in many ways, it has served me so well. My ability to separate things from each other, and to understand where the edges are and where the borders are has been super helpful in terms of helping me remain objective about a lot of things. Like as an example, you know, I am an acting coach. So, I end up in spaces that are extremely emotionally charged. People are emoting, connecting deeply to their work, and I have to remain objective. So the ability to compartmentalize my experience from their experience is, I think, what makes me a good acting coach, or one of the things that makes me a good acting coach. But where I also see that it might not serve me is when I'm able to take one project, for example, that I'm working on and pack it so tightly in its compartment that I don't see the possibilities of if I connected that project to something else I'm working on. How it would be well served by lifting that wall, or opening the compartment, or taking the lid off the box, or whichever visual you prefer.

Pete: Mmm.

Jen: But I think you're right. Like, in many...in many ways, this thing that I have struggled with has also really helped me to gain traction in other areas.

Pete: Yeah, and I feel like...because I would say one of the superpowers that I would attribute to you is the ability to connect the dots. Which feels almost like...I don't know if that's the inverse of compartmentalizing, but it feels like...

Jen: Yes.

Pete: It feels like they, yeah, there's not a contradiction but a relationship there.

Jen: Ooh, that is...okay. This is so interesting to me in so many ways. Because basically what we're describing is like my entire philosophy about acting, which is: Find the extreme ends of the spectrum and then explore them. So, you know, on the one end you've got connecting the dots and finding all of the ways things contribute to each other. And I would think of that as being like a highly creative process. And at the other end of the spectrum, you've got everything is in its place, and nothing touches, and everything exists in a compartment. Well, I guess then my actual superpower would be being able to do both. Like, I'm able to see things as distinct and separate from each other. And then on the other end of the spectrum, able to find the ways in which they could create something new if they're put together, or the ways they could bounce off of each other. So I guess in order to be creative, you also have to understand how things are different.

Pete: Yeah, I feel like there's a...it's like you're an organizer. You know where all of your compartments are, and when to lift the lid on them, and when to draw connections between them, and when not to, perhaps.

Jen: Okay, well, I want to now flip this back on to you, then. Because I'm really curious, like, what do you see as your Achilles heel/superpower?

Pete: Hmm, it's a good question. I think one of the things that has served me as a superpower in a lot of my work, in a lot of my life would be something we talk about a lot around empathy.

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Pete: And I think about empathy, that is showing up curiously to seek to understand what it's like to be someone else, to experience something else based on someone else's worldview. And that requires a posture of curiosity. That requires the ability to ask questions and hold space, which as a coach is like fundamental to the work that I do. And, you know, as someone who worked on teams in the past, and leadership, and culture, and understanding that really great cultures often at their root have leaders who are really empathetic. So, that has served me in many ways. I think what's interesting is your question asks, "What's the Achilles about that?" And I think this is juicy to explore. Because I feel like every skill, every superpower, every trait that we might have has both a, you know, a good and a bad, or a Yin and a Yang. Because, you know, empathy serves you and the people that you are working with, until it doesn't. And I think about someone who might, for example, be so empathetic that they can't sleep at night because they're worried about their friend who just lost their job, and who has a relationship that might be struggling, and has a kid that's relying on the two of them, and there's some tension there. And they're so wound up in someone else's story because they're so empathetic, that they can't actually like function or sleep at night, which doesn't serve them and also doesn't serve their friend. So there's like this flip side of, yeah, empathy is awesome and such a superpower for so many people, and I would say myself, included. Again, until it's not. And I think that's sort of what you described with compartmentalization, too, right? It's super helpful and useful in certain situations like acting coaching, until it's perhaps not. In the example where you and I first met, and you were like, "These are two separate things." And I was like, "What if they weren't?"

Jen: Right. Oh, it's so interesting. It's making me think of something I heard Simon Sinek say once about your Why, which is that your Why is something that you are so good at giving to other people, and it's the thing you most need for yourself.

Pete: Oof. Wow.

Jen: Yeah. There's like, again, there's that Yin and Yang idea, like the double-edged sword, I guess.

Pete: I feel a little called out.

Jen: Wait, wait, wait, okay. We need to have like special music that breaks in every time you say, "I feel called out." It's like, [singing] "Bum, bum, bum: Pete is called out!" Or something like that.

Pete: [singing] "It's the Called Out jingle."

Jen: Wait, why do you feel called out right now?

Pete: Well, I think that...I mean, I just think in so many instances that is true. Which is, I mean using myself as an example, I am really good at coaching other leaders and changemakers to add more intention to their work, to stay accountable to the change they're working on, to help them build keynotes and workshops and ways to articulate their big idea. We do this in the Big Ideas Lab. And, yeah, I have moments where sometimes I'm on a client call, or after a conversation with someone and I'm like, "Hmm, I could probably use that advice myself." You know? Or like, helping someone really get clear on who it is they're trying to serve with a workshop. And then by the same token, I'm thinking about my workshop over here. And I'm like, "Oh, I see. I'm trying to serve too many people. I need to narrow that down." So I just feel like, you know, we always need to take our own advice. Well, we often need to take our own advice. And we're very good...certainly, I'm very good at helping others, and not necessarily as good at helping myself. And yeah, I mean, that actually plays out in my blog. I wrote about this...it was kind of a meta post a little while ago. I'll put it in the Box O' Goodies. But basically, I think of my blog as like a note to self. It's like, "Hey Pete, remember this thing that you know, and you don't always implement?" And so, it's like a...it's a way of trying to recognize what sounds like Simon mentioned, that often we need to take our own advice, basically, or focus on the thing that we're communicating to others within ourselves.

Jen: Oh my gosh, I just had the craziest aha moment.

Pete: Okay, so we need a jingle for this too. We need a jingle for Jen's aha moment. [singing] "It's the Jen aha moment."

Jen: Composers, send us your ideas. Okay, so you know my Why, the current iteration of my Why statement is: To help people better know themselves, so that they can better express themselves. The words are fine, the words are what they are. But there is an actual image that best depicts my Why, which is someone taking (okay, this is about to get gory, but I find it beautiful), someone taking their like bloody, beating heart out of their chest, and putting it in my hands.

Pete: Oh my gosh.

Jen: That's my Why.

Pete: That's intense.

Jen: Actually, someone painted me that image. One of my students painted me an image of me holding her bloody heart in my hands. Which is sort of crazy and amazing. But when you think about compartmentalization...I mean, think about the rib cage, talk about a compartment. And then think about, what is the opposite of compartmentalizing your heart? It is like literally taking it out of your chest and placing it in someone's hands. So, basically what I'm saying is that compartmentalization and it's opposite are my Why? No, I don't think that's what I'm saying. So, basically what I'm saying is that the image I've used for the last, what is it, eight years or something to imagine my Why is exactly what we're talking about today. It's like those two extremes.

Pete: Mmm. I wonder if what I mentioned about feeling called out (or called in), how that applies to this image. Is it that you need to hold your own heart in your hands? Or give someone the ability to hold your heart...someone else the ability to hold your heart in their hands? You know, you've got to take your own advice kind of thing. Like, is there a tension point there?

Jen: Yeah, I mean, if we want to play the Jen Feels Called Out theme song, it would be the latter. It would be the "place my heart in someone else's hands". But that's where the compartmentalization is like good protection. You know, paging Dr. Freud, I'm not feeling that lack in my life. But the second you stated it, I was like, "Agh."

Pete: Sorry. Hmm. Juicy, juicy, juicy. So, I'm now like going back through the catalogue of things that have happened in the last few weeks and trying to analyze everything. I gave a talk at a conference, a virtual conference, just recently, and it was called "The shared superpower of all great leaders." And maybe I'll link to it in the Box O' Goodies. But now I'm like thinking about, "Well, I was talking about superpowers." And then, to this point, to this conversation, "At what point is that not a superpower anymore?" And so, I'm like curious to, you know, challenge...or not challenge, but like think about this conversation and how it might apply to something like that keynote, for example.

Jen: Yeah. I'm really interested in like, what is the process by which one could discover superpowers and their extreme opposites? Like in my particular case, you pointed it out to me. I don't know if I would have come to that on my own. So like, how can we help ourselves by looking for this so that we can capitalize on our superpower, and then also acknowledge the moments when it might be getting in the way of growth and development?

Pete: Ooh, I have an idea.

Jen: Okay.

Pete: So I've done this exercise with many, many clients and friends. And it's borrowed from Adam Grant's Reflective Best Self exercise, which we've, I'm sure we've mentioned on this podcast. Which is, you draft an email that says something along the lines of, "Dear Jen, you are a very trusted friend and collaborator of mine. I'm doing some work on myself, and I would love for you to share with me what you think my three superpowers are. Or could you tell a story, or paint a picture of a memory that you have of when I was at my best?" Or something along those lines. And you send it to, I always say like five to ten people. I've had people that have sent it to like twenty-plus. And then you just sit back and wait for the responses to come in. And it...I've heard people call it life changing. I found it super helpful myself (I've done this a few years ago now), just to see how other people perceive you and your superpower. Because other people's perception of us is so often very different to our perception of ourselves. So yeah, I would encourage people to literally do it.

Jen: Okay, this is so interesting, because I give that exercise all the time too.

Pete: Of course you do.

Jen: But the thing I've never thought to do is identify the opposite of what someone has said is your strength. Because when I've done this exercise, the number of people who have told me my superpower is my ability to connect the dots...like I can't even count how many people have said that that is what it is. But it never occurred to me to pull on that and go, "So, what is at the other end of that? If at one extreme is my ability to connect the dots, the other would be to leave the dots unconnected and totally compartmentalized. In what areas of my life might I be pulling at the other end of the extreme?" So like, I had never thought about adding a layer to that exercise. But now I want to go back and look through old notes, and see what else is there.

Pete: Yeah, that's juicy. And then I guess, to our earlier point, also think about other times when that superpower doesn't necessarily serve us.

Jen: Right.

Pete: Like the empathy, yeah.

Jen: That is juicy. Alright. So, I have thoroughly enjoyed this conversation today. Let's see if we can connect the dots between all the things we spoke about today.

Pete: Okay, so if we try and look at all the compartments that we've talked about today, and connect the dots between them...

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Pete: I mean, we created a new jingle or two, which was kind of fun.

Jen: Thank goodness for that.

Pete: The "Called Out" jingle and the "Aha" jingle. And I guess what we're saying is, each of us possesses a superpower (or more likely a number of superpowers), which serve us in many ways, and probably don't serve us in other ways that we may not have explored. And so if you're wondering what your superpower might be, or superpowers might be, we would encourage you to find out, to ask people that are close to you. And then from there, do the radical self-inquiry necessary to figure out both: what is on the other end of that, and where does this superpower not serve me?

Jen: That was a really great connecting of the dots, Shepherd. And that is The Long and The Short Of It.