The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 115 - The Five P’s

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: Hello, Jen.

Jen: I am fired up and inspired these days.

Pete: I see it. I see it. I can feel it coming through the Zoom screen.

Jen: Well, I just started this week, the latest round of my mindset workshop, Shift. And this one is lit. It is on fire. And I had a big aha moment. It took me three days to crystallize, but it is in place now. And I would like to share it with you. The subject is words that start with the letter P.

Pete: Please tell me more. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Pete: See, I used the word "please" because it starts with "P".

Jen: I appreciated that. I got the joke, I got the joke.

Pete: Thanks. Care to explain?

Jen: So, here's a little bit of context. So on the first day of the workshop, we do a big group share. And then, I take all the information and build the next four weeks of prompts based on what people shared. So I'm writing down almost every single thing that they are saying, because I want to make sure I have enough to go on. And during the first session, the morning session, I noticed that there were a lot of these words being repeated. And many of them started with the letter "P". Which doesn't seem like that big an aha moment, but stick with me. Stick with me.

Pete: No, I'm with you. I'm with you.

Jen: And the word that was used most that started with the letter "P" was "planning", "plans", or "plan", some form of the word "plan". And people were telling me that they were feeling stuck because of the times we're living in, and that they had made plans and that those plans either didn't work out, or needed to change, or they're in this place right now where they feel like they need to make a plan but they don't know where to start. So, I started sort of tracking that. Then I went to the second session in the evening, and it was the same thing. All these "P" words were jumping out at me. And then, I started having the aha moment. So I took this aha moment, and I created a quick exercise. And it turns out, I was indeed onto something. So I would like to share with you, in no particular order...

Pete: Okay.

Jen: ...the five words that start with the letter "P" that came up most as people were thinking about their future. And those five words (in no particular order) are: priorities, plans, projects, purpose, passion. I'm going to repeat them in a different, not particular order. Projects, purpose, passion, priority, plans. And so what I asked people to do, and what I'll ask you to do right now, is to actually put those words in order. Create a hierarchy.

Pete: Based on my level of importance, or is this deliberately vague?

Jen: Well, I like to be deliberately vague in these kinds of moments. But to help you along, I'll say in the order of importance.

Pete: Hmm, alright. This feels difficult, but let me have a go. I can already see this is going to be a fun conversation. Okay, I think I can do this. Done. Shall I repeat them back?

Jen: Yeah. You know what? I've done my own, and I'll repeat mine back after you.

Pete: Cool, cool, cool. Alright. Number one, I had purpose. Number two, I had projects. Number three, I had priorities. Number four, I had passion. And I think unsurprisingly, number five, I had plans.

Jen: Okay, I'll read mine back.

Pete: Please.

Jen: Purpose. Passion. Priorities. Projects. Plans.

Pete: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Are you feeling okay? I thought plans would be number one.

Jen: No, they're not. Purpose is number one for me. Purpose, passion, priorities, projects, plans. Okay, so there's no wrong answer here. It is whatever it is to you. But what's interesting, Peter, all of these people who said they were having trouble with planning, zero people in the group (zero!) put plans as their number one most important on the list. And so when I asked them, "Have you paid attention to the other things that have to come...for you, based on your own hierarchy. Have you paid attention to the other things that need to come before the plans?" You saw all of their faces sort of like move into shocked-face emoji, and then brain-explode emoji. Because, "Oh my goodness, of course this is why planning isn't working. Because I haven't dealt with the other things that need to be tapped into first in order to make the planning worth it."

Pete: Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Okay, so my brain wants to conclude, or assert that maybe that's because the other four require more emotional labor.

Jen: Yes, of course.

Pete: The other four are harder. And so we just pick the easy one and go, "Ah, it's because I can't come up with a plan." And we try and spend so much energy and time concerned with the thing that's not actually the real hard part, or the real point of tension. It's the easier one. Hmm.

Jen: Yes. And so to add on to that, if you have created a plan with all of the other pieces in their proper order...so if I know my purpose, and I feel my passion, and I've set my priorities, and I've selected my projects. (This is my personal hierarchy.) And then based on that, I've created plans. If the plans don't work out, it's not that devastating because all of the other things are still in place, and I can create a different plan. But if I'm leading with the plan, and I'm expecting the plan to help me find my purpose, my passion, my priorities, of course I'm devastated when the plan doesn't work out.

Pete: Woah. Woah. Is this related to identity? Do you think like if I identify as someone who is so attached to this plan, rather than identify as someone who is motivated or driven by this purpose, or passion, or project, or priority, what...I mean, this year is a great example. But what always happens is our plans get thwarted, or changed, or whatever. And so, if you've led with the plan...I think I'm just reiterating what you just said, but I'm having an aha moment in doing so. Is, your sense of identity and self gets pulled from underneath you because you lead with the plan. That was the thing that you thought was, or decided to focus on the most as being associated with you.

Jen: Yes. Another way to say this is: this is not a chicken and egg scenario.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: It's not that either one could possibly come first...although I'm pretty sure I've heard Seth Godin riff on the fact that one indeed came first. But that is beside the point.

Pete: He definitely has an answer for that. Yeah.

Jen: Great planning is not the path to purpose.

Pete: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Can you say that again?

Jen: Great planning is not the path to purpose. You could create the most amazing plan, and that is not necessarily going to tell you why you exist, or what you're passionate about. If you operate in the other order, if you have your why, if you have a vision, if you know what you're passionate about, then you can create a plan to execute based on those things. But just being a good planner isn't suddenly going to illuminate your purpose.

Pete: Yeah. So the other thing that sticks out to me in looking at these five is, it feels like the "planning" word, the word "plan", or the idea of planning is the one that's most outside of your control, too. Which I think is why it can be dangerous to focus on that as the most important. Because we set ourselves up for failure when we get attached to things that are outside of our control. So we've talked about separating decisions and outcomes before, and Annie Duke's amazing book, Thinking in Bets, and how she talks through that. But I think it's a similar thing. Is, you could have a plan with an end destination that you're really hoping for. And what you need to acknowledge, what we need to acknowledge is that that end destination is out of our control. So all we can do is focus on the things that will help us get ahead in the direction of said outcome, of said plan. So I'm wondering, maybe what I'm saying...ooh, here we go. Maybe, is part of a plan that you need to have a purpose, a passion, a project, and a priority?

Jen: I mean, based on your hierarchy, yes. Based on my hierarchy, yes. There were some folks in the group who had planning in the middle of the list. So whatever came before planning for them, it needs to be in place first.

Pete: But in that way...I realize I'm totally contradicting the last eleven minutes of this podcast. But-

Jen: I don't think you are.

Pete: No, I'm about to.

Jen: Oh.

Pete: Could planning not be number one? Because what we're saying is, "Okay, I'm going focus on my plan. So I know the first step of my plan is to get a purpose, is to think about passion, is to think about my projects, and think about my priorities." And so it's a little cheeky, but I'm wondering if it's actually part of the plan is that thing, is the other four things.

Jen: Well, the grand plan, I guess. I think that...I mean, strangely, the answer is yes. Because what a lot of people in class this week recognized was that their plan needs to start with recognizing what they care about.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: But I also...this aha moment just keeps growing for me. Because you said earlier, "Oh my gosh, I'm so surprised. I thought planning was going to be number one." Because I love to plan things. I actually don't love to plan things. I love to create plans. I love to map things out and have a strategy. But I recognize now that one of the reasons that's so fun for me is because I ultimately don't really care if it works or not. Because the thing that's fueling it is a sense of purpose and vision. So if, you know, if tomorrow you were like, "Jen, I checked the stats. We have zero listeners. The podcast is dead." I'd probably be sad for a second, but then I'd sort of shrug and be like, "So, what else are we going to do to make sure people get their ideas out of their head and into the world?"

Pete: Yeah. It feels the most fluid, I think.

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Pete: The plan. Yeah. I mean, I would say that projects, and priorities, and passion can can probably shift a little bit. Purpose tends not to shift, in my experience. And I mean, you know more about it than me, but I feel like plans change. You know, like you can break plans down to daily, or hourly, or, you know, within a twenty-minute podcast. We change the plan and the direction of this podcast all the time.

Jen: Yeah. It was interesting, because I think...I don't think I misspeaking here. I believe that everybody in all the sessions had either purpose or passion as number one. That was across the board.

Pete: Yeah. So, a bit of a sidebar on passion. Do you think that is innate? Or is that a...is passion like a skill that can be cultivated?

Jen: Ooh. Nobody has ever asked me that question before. I don't know the answer to that.

Pete: Yeah. I mean, I don't know the answer to that, which is why I asked. But I have Debbie Millman and Seth Godin in my head. Which, I'm going to put this episode in the Box O' Goodies. Because this podcast was my favorite podcast of 2020, hands down. It was the latest episode of Design Matters where Debbie Millman interviewed Seth about his new book, The Practice.

Jen: It's so good.

Pete: Yeah. And they were talking a lot about flow. And Seth was saying, so brilliantly, is, no one starts anything in a state of flow. You start a project in a mindset of, "I'm not necessarily in flow." And by doing the thing, you end up in a state of flow. So in that way, it's kind of learned and practiced through (like the book suggests) a practice. And I don't know if he used the word "passion", but I feel like there's a parallel to passions. Is, you...I don't know if you start to do something because you're passionate about it, or whether you develop a passion for it because you've been doing it. Hence where the question came from.

Jen: Yeah. I mean, the thing that's coming to my mind is: exposure is the key to finding your passion. Like, how...I'm very fortunate that I work with artists, and artists are passionate people. They were exposed to art. They developed a passion for it. I wonder if I had been exposed to something else, what would my passion be? But my parents exposed me to theater, dance, music, art, from a very young age. So, it makes a lot of sense that that is my passion.

Pete: I'm having such a mind-bending aha moment. Because I agree with you. Exposure creates passion. And so what I would add to that is, I think I want to argue my case. Which is, you can cultivate passion. Not just because of what happened when you were a kid, but I could start exposing myself to something now as an adult and, over time, develop a passion for that thing. I guess that it almost sounds obvious now that I say it out loud. You hear people getting into certain hobbies as they get older, and getting passionate about certain things. And so maybe it's less of an aha moment then for everybody else than it is for me. But yeah, I think that's interesting. Exposure can create passion. Sorry if I took us a little off.

Jen: No, I think this is really important. Because going back to the concept of starting with the plan, if you don't have something you're passionate about, how invested are you going to be in the plan? This is one of the interesting byproducts of the pandemic. Is, because many people, at least in the communities that I'm a part of (the artists communities), have had to re-funnel their energy into different areas. Because, you know, stages are dark right now, people have intentionally exposed themselves to new things and have found new passions. And for a lot of people, it's very confusing. It's like, "Wait a minute, wait a minute. I thought I was only passionate about making theatre. And now, suddenly I'm passionate about Persian cuisine. Like, what am I going to do about this?" You know? And there are, you know, certain things that people have found passions around will turn into hobbies. But what I'm observing is that for a lot of people, these passions are things they realize they can connect the dots between several different passions and actually create a business out of it.

Pete: Mmm. Yeah, wow. So in that sense, I guess passion, projects, priorities, and plans can all change and be cultivated on different levels. But I think you would agree, purpose is a little more steadfast. It's a little more set in stone. And you know, you've talked about having a Why statement or starting with Why. That that idea of having a purpose or a vision for ourselves and our work feels like that is pretty constant, regardless of everything else that's changing.

Jen: Yeah, I feel like I can say that now because I know my Why. If you had asked me ten years ago, I would have absolutely without a doubt put passion as the number one because I knew my passion, but I hadn't yet found my purpose.

Pete: Mmm. Mmm. Okay, so as I pick up my brain off the floor and place it back into my cranium, what do we make of these five words that will start with "P"?

Jen: Please, people, put priorities properly placed.

Pete: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.