The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 117 - Environments

Transcript:

Pete: Hey, Jen.

Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: So almost a year ago to the day (not quite, a little over), we recorded an episode called Aha Moments, which I believe was, "What are our our aha moments of the year?" And one of the things I said was that physical environment matters.

Jen: Yes.

Pete: And a year on, I'd like to turn that into an episode. And add to that, that I also think digital environment matters. And that the way we interact with people, ourselves, ideas can often be shaped by the digital or physical environment that we're in.

Jen: Ooh. This is juicy, and relevant to the times we're living in. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Pete: So at the time, I was having the aha moment of, I was someone who grew up at the beach in a very small coastal town, down on the coast. And I moved to Melbourne for university and eventually for work, and I stayed in what we would call inner city, which is not that close to the beach, or the bay, as it's sort of referred to in Melbourne. And the aha moment I had about a year ago was like, "Oh, I could just move fifteen, twenty minutes down the road and be less than five minutes to the beach, and still close enough to the city." And the joy, the change in my attitude, and posture, and energy that changing that environment had was quite quite profound, actually. And also one of those aha moments where you get annoyed because you're like, "Why didn't I think of this earlier? This is so obvious."

Jen: Right.

Pete: And so I've thought about that a lot, especially as it relates to this year, in terms of physical environment. I think in the past, I've told myself a story for sure that I need to work out of an office, and that office has to be sunlit, and I have liked to have plants, and I want to have other people. You know, the perfect office. You know, think of like a beautiful co-working space, that's kind of the vibe that I've usually had. And this year has obviously changed a lot of that. So I'm thinking about it in that context. But then we, you and I, had a conversation sort of briefly offline, if you like. And we were both kind of like, "Oh, this could be an episode."

Jen: I remember.

Pete: Yeah. Because we realize that applies to digital environments, too. So that is kind of the context for where this conversation is coming from, this episode is coming from. Do you have anything to add? Does that make sense?

Jen: Well, I just want to say that I've observed the change in you, that...you know, we record in the morning in Australia. So very often, you're like unbelievably chipper. And then you say, "Well, I've just come from a swim." So clearly, the move was a good one.

Pete: Yeah, very true.

Jen: The world needs more chipper Pete.

Pete: I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Yes, the physical environment. It almost feels like an obvious one. I think like, I still think that we under-rate the environment that we surround ourselves in. Whether that be literally within our home: What is our home look like, and how are we living? Are we cluttered? Are we a little more Marie Kondo? Are we, you know, more of the Gretchen Rubin tidying up kind of framework, which I know you like? And then like, outside of the house. Where are we? What's the climate? All of that. I feel like most of our listeners have a pretty good grasp on that idea that environment matters.

Jen: Well, I can give you a really specific example of digital environment making a difference.

Pete: Yes, please.

Jen: And this is a bit of what you and I were talking about offline. So for several years, I have been hacking Facebook groups...and I don't mean like breaking into other people's Facebook groups. But using Facebook groups as a messaging platform for some classes that I teach. So, I've been basically using their platform and customizing it to the needs of myself in the group. And so, for several years...there is this particular class that I run called Shift (which I feel like I might have spoken about on a recent episode) where we have been using a Facebook group to connect between classes. And it's been great. I mean, the class has always been quite successful. Well, we started running the latest group and someone in the group doesn't use Facebook, and won't use Facebook for very principled reasons that I fully support. And so we floated in the group, "What if we took this class off of Facebook and moved it over to Slack?" And we got an almost unanimous yes. So we moved the group off of one digital platform and onto another one. And the change in the culture of the group is nothing short of remarkable. Now, they were wonderful when we were on Facebook. But what I hadn't considered and, you know, to your earlier point about like, "Duh, why didn't I think of this earlier," was that even though we weren't using it like social media, it still looks like social media. You still have a relationship with Facebook that is a social media relationship. But once we moved over to Slack, people started setting clearer boundaries, people started setting clearer expectations. The way people were talking about their own work was with a different level of transparency and honesty. The way people were supporting each other was a lot more active. I was kind of blown away. And now I'm, you know, avoiding regret, but recognizing there's a lot of learning in: Does the platform support the culture you seek to create?

Pete: Yes. So, I think the word "culture" is a really juicy one. Because I think about culture as "the way we do things around here". And if you think about Facebook, the way that we do things around here on Facebook...I know you generously use it as a mechanism for communicating about a mindset course or workshop. That is not necessarily what most people associate Facebook with. They associate it with sharing photos, or friends, or, you know, maybe reviewing rants that people have written, or, you know, recommendations that people are asking for. Like, our relationship with social media is...the way we do things around here is very much, I guess, a little more personal and a little more social (hence social media), than what you've intended to use it for. And to your point, done so pretty effectively. But I think what we're recognizing is that there is a culture of platforms like Facebook, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.

Jen: Yes. And when I think about my own relationship to Facebook...I don't have much of a relationship to Instagram, but I do have a relationship to Facebook. Simply because I'm old. And I know that I go in with a bit of defenses up. Where I'm like, "I'm going to look for the things that I'm here to see, but I also have to prepare myself to be offended and angry."

Pete: Yeah. Yeah, that's so true.

Jen: And so, this sort of like neutral platform of Slack that we're using now is whatever we want to make it. And I've been using Slack for...oh my gosh, I don't know, I think maybe since it first was invented. I mean, I've been using it for many, many years. So I have a relationship to Slack which includes people like you, and other people who I'm in collaborative projects with, that I love the work that I do. And all of the work that I love ends up somehow on Slack. So, I already have a positive connotation. But a lot of the people who are in the group had never used Slack before. So it's a completely blank canvas, and they're getting to make it what they want it to be. So the big learning for me is that I have to, in the future, consider existing relationships people have with the platforms that I choose to put my own work on and ask them to be on.

Pete: Yeah, yeah.

Jen: Like, how did I not think of this before, Pete?

Pete: Well, because you were brilliantly thinking...I mean, the pro of something like Facebook is the friction of getting people to access the group that you're talking about is non-existent, because most people have a Facebook account. So there is some, you know, level of intellect to that decision. What I think has happened over time...especially as people's erosion of trust with something like Facebook has been very obvious. And so over time I think it's probably become, to your point, more associated with, we associate it with being a bit more defensive, being a bit more aware, being a bit more mindful of the things that are going to be pushed to us by an algorithm that has an agenda. As opposed to, I'm associating it with going there intentionally to do this project, and I know that all I'm going to find there, like on Slack, is generous feedback from Jen. Like, that association is far more beneficial to the work that I'm doing than sort of like dodging under trees, and climbing through branches, and like avoiding the snake pit in order to find the hidden treasure that is the Facebook group that you've created.

Jen: Mmm. Yep. Yes.

Pete: I think it goes to the stories we tell ourselves. Is, based on the things that we see, the inputs that we have, the associations that we make, and our experiences from the past, we tell ourselves stories of what to expect in certain environments. Now again, this is physical. Like, if I think about if I was to go to a spa and get a massage. Often, you would find...universally, you would find there's probably some really calm, soothing music, you know, when you go in there maybe they give you a glass of water, and the lights are a little dim. And so you start to associate that with calm, and, "Oh, I'm getting a massage. It's relaxation." All of that. So there are semiotics, there are sounds, there are inputs that are given to us to create a certain feeling. And the same is true with Facebook. The same is true with Slack. The same is true with living in a house. Like, there's these very intentional signals that create stories of what we should expect.

Jen: I love this train of thought. Because...sidebar, I don't like getting massages. That can be a topic for another podcast.

Pete: Oh, woah. Really? I wondered why you looked at me a little weird when I mentioned a relaxing massage.

Jen: We can unpack that at a later date. But what I'm recognizing that the digital universe provides is a space that is potentially free of existing stories. Like when a new platform is created, the stories aren't quite there yet. And I don't even know what to do with that aha moment, because I'm not a platform builder. I'm not a digital platform builder. Oh, wait. Wait, you're having a physical response. What was that?

Pete: I want to challenge that. I want to challenge that. Because you just gave me an aha moment, which is when we have a platform that we can use that has somewhat of a clean slate...like you mentioned, you've got people in this workshop that haven't necessarily used Slack. All of a sudden, you get to (by leading with empathy) set the signals that you want to set, create the culture that you want to set, and create that association for them. And so I think when you've got the luxury of having a platform that is a little bit agnostic, you don't have to have designed it, but you design the environment within that platform. And I actually think the same is true with Zoom. Is, I feel like this has gotten harder, actually, this year, because a lot more people are familiar with Zoom. What I used to love about Zoom was like hardly anyone used it. And so when people came on, I recognized, "Okay, there is an opportunity here." And you and I have done this in so many calls that we've run together, to set the expectations about the way that we're going to do things around here, and the associations that you'll make. So, "The chat feature is on the right. Everyone pop in there where you're calling in from. And we want everyone to be on mute until we ask you a question or you've got something to say." Like, these little rules that we set, these little expectations and associations create the conditions for the environment that we wanted to create and cultivate.

Jen: You're so right. And I sort of like have been retreating in my brain for the last sixty seconds. Because I'm like, "Wait a minute. Wait a minute, wait a minute. Did I literally just say I don't build digital platforms? What the hell have I been doing for the last year? Of course, I do."

Pete: The whole studio.

Jen: Wow. Okay. I feel called out. [singing] "Jen feels called out."

Pete: [singing] "It's the call out song. Hmm-hmm-hmm." Yeah, because, I mean, the studio is a great example. The digital studio and the platform that you've built for that studio, you've designed it in a way that creates culture that people make associations with. "I go here to do this thing. The posture when I am here is one of, you know, integrity, generosity, care, and all of the values that I know you uphold within that community." So, there is that level of association with the environment that you've created.

Jen: Oh, this is so fascinating. Because remember, I told you before we jumped on this recording, that this Friday, we have a big team meeting to discuss moving off of our existing platforms and onto a different platform because our culture has outgrown the functionality of the platform that we're currently on. We're experiencing too many obstacles around connecting and communicating the way we want to with our existing platform. So we're shaping the future of the studio by asking, "Can the platform we're moving to support our culture?"

Pete: Mmm. Oof. That's good. I like that. I feel like there's an obvious parallel that I just feel like I want to say out loud. Which is, you know, in corporates, startups, companies of any size, (you will know this), often they might have a leadership team that does like a company offsite. Or, you know, "Let's all go away for six hours into a different environment and have a workshop where we talk about the strategy." Exactly what you just described. "Talk about the culture that we want to set for the next twelve months. Talk about our goals, aspirations, blah, blah." And it's done sometimes effectively, sometimes not. But there is...baked into that there's a recognition that we have to change our environment in order to, I guess, get more creative, have different inputs, so that we can decide things that we want to bring back into the environment that we have at work.

Jen: I am...

Pete: What's happening, what's happening?

Jen: ...having a complete mind meltdown, because I had never seen it through that lens. But you are absolutely right, that there is a difference between having a company retreat or offsite that can only happen because it is off site. There's no way anything that could only happen off site is going to stick when you get back into your everyday environment. And then there are some companies (I've been lucky enough to get to go on some of these offsite retreats) where the onsite culture is so functional that what happens at the offsite sticks. But if the reason we're having the offsite is because we could never do that kind of work here, like we couldn't actually talk about innovation or creativity or our feelings at work, then how are you going to bring the learnings from the offsite back to the onsite?

Pete: Mm-hmm.

Jen: Oh my gosh, I had never put that together. Thank you for that.

Pete: Mmm. Mmm, mmm. That feels rich. And then, yeah...I think to your point, applying that to the digital platform as what you described with your studio is carving that time out to have that conversation to bring it back to: What is a platform that will be able to support our culture?

Jen: Woah. Okay. So I think what we've just landed on, Pete, is that when we take a look around us and ask, "Is my environment supporting the work I want to do, and the kind of people I want to do it with, and the kind of culture I want to exist in?" We would be foolish to end that survey when we get to our computer screen. And we would be wise to include all the things that are contained within our computer as part of our actual environment.

Pete: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.