The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 135 - I Got Nothin’

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: Hello, Jen.

Jen: I'm coming to you today with a problem/issue/challenge that I think you will be very, very familiar with.

Pete: Oh. Oh dear. What is it?

Jen: The challenge is: I got nothin'. I got nothin'. Which is a very familiar sentence uttered between the two of us. But I thought it would be interesting to unpack how every single time we go to hit record, we both say "I got nothin'," and then we record an episode.

Pete: [laughing] I'm laughing because it's just so true. It's so true. We've had this conversation at least one hundred and forty times. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Pete: I feel called out.

Jen: I'm going to say another very popular sentence between us, "I don't know if this is actually going to be an episode." But I recognize that this is sort of a phenomenon in that without fail, we decide we have nothing to say, then we both sit in silence while staring at each other and making goofy faces, and then one of us says, "Okay, I have something but I'm not sure if it's an episode," and then we start and we record. Now to be fair, not everything actually makes it to air. But I think there's something to be unpacked here around thought starters, and then doing it anyway to see what happens.

Pete: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, sometimes, I guess to share with the listeners...sometimes, what we have is literally one word. Like I think it was last week, you said to me, "Okay, I have one word. I don't know if it's an episode. Like, let's see if we could turn it into an episode." I have a few thoughts about this. Because it's interesting, it's actually a theme I've noticed a little bit lately with my blog in particular, as well. I guess I go through...I think there's a cycle here.

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Pete: You know, in terms of the podcast, I've definitely experienced with my blog, where sometimes we're like, "Oh, I've got like a list of six things we could talk about." And we might record like two episodes each time we catch up, and all of a sudden we build up a can. And then, we go through periods like this where...well actually, maybe I'm giving us too much credit for building up the can. We haven't done it that much. Usually, it's like, "I don't know. I don't know if this is an episode. But let's try." So I feel like there's a cycle, which maybe we can talk about. But also, the first thing that comes to mind when I hear you say that is, there's something in us having given one another permission to think out loud.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: I've been thinking a lot about thinking out loud lately. And I actually think that that's definitely what we do in this podcast. But I actually think that's what I do in my blog, for example. I think sometimes when I'm coaching, I'm literally thinking out loud. And I don't know, for some reason, not everyone (myself included, prior to having this podcast) I think has given themself that permission to like, unpack. Like, we say "unpack" a lot. But literally, that's what...we're unpacking something in real time, thinking out loud, we have no idea what's going to happen. So, I don't know. I feel like there's something there.

Jen: Yes. Certainly working together and both going like, "No idea what's about to happen. Let's go." There is a tool of permission there. I'm very interested in what you said about your blog. And my own example of this is my Monday morning Homeroom class. Where...it's so funny, because I've never missed one. I've done every single Monday since April 5th, 2020. Every week, I have a topic and I have exercises. But leading up to it, I convince myself, "This will be the last Homeroom, because I have nothing more to say. I have no ideas. I have nothing to share." And I actually have figured out how to unlock myself for Homeroom. And I think what we've just landed on is, you and I figured out how to unlock ourselves together for the podcast. How do you unlock yourself for the blog? And I'm happy to share my Homeroom unlocking mechanism as well.

Pete: Mmm. I think it's such a brilliant question. How do I unlock myself? I think this idea applies to definitely the podcast, maybe Homeroom, definitely my blog. I go back to this time and time and time again, which is, "I don't sit down to write because I have something to say. I have something to say because I sat down to write." And...

Jen: Isn't that a Seth Godin...?

Pete: I think it's Seth. But I actually think Seth is...when he says that, he's quoting one of his mentors that he learned that from. And I'll try and dig up who it is and put it in the Box O' Goodies. I've heard him say that, but I think he borrowed it from somewhere else. Like someone who wrote something like, published eighty-five books or something absurd. And I think the same is true with the podcast. Clearly, we don't sit down to record because we have something to say. We have something to say, i.e. we think out loud, because we sat down to record. We showed up, and as a result, something comes of it. And I know that kind of sounds and feels a little intangible. But I've been blogging for four years now. I haven't missed a week, I don't think. Maybe one Christmas, I might have missed. And that has always been the approach. Like every Sunday, without fail, I'll be like, "Well, what am I going to write today? I have no idea." And so, to your point, how do I prompt myself? A couple of things. One is, I think about, "What did I read or listen to in the last week that sort of stuck out to me?" And I might decide, "Okay, so I'm reading that book on, you know, stoic philosophy, and that quote kind of made me think of this." And then, "Ah, okay, maybe there's a post there." Or, I'll think about a question that I'm really noodling on. Or, like I think of my blog in two ways. One is, what are the things I've observed, and I'm curious about? So just like things I'm noodling on, hence why it's called "Noodle Scratchers". And then the other one is...I guess, well, actually, the other one is kind of the same. It's, what am I thinking about? Because like I said, I think about it as thinking out loud. Often, I think about it as like a note to self. So, what am I thinking about that I want to remind myself of? That's a really, really common prompt for me when I'm writing a blog. And sometimes (I'm sure you've had this experience with yours), sometimes I'll get a reply to someone being like, "Ugh, I feel called out. Thank you so much." And I was like, "Oh, interesting, because I was calling myself out." So yeah, I guess they are the ways I try to unlock myself.

Jen: Maybe it's not surprising to you, given the pattern of conversations we've had over the last couple years, that the thing that unlocks me is constraints. So my Homeroom unlocking ritual is: I go outside, I have ten minutes, I walk around the block with my voice memo on, and I deliver the Homeroom class in ten minutes, without any preparation. I just pick something, I talk about it, I set up my three prompts, and I record it. And then I'm like, "Oh. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I have a class there." And what's really funny is, the reason I record it is so I have this safety net of (I record it on Otter, so I have the transcript) if I'm stumbling in class, while they're in a Breakout Room, I can go to my transcript and remind myself what comes next. Not once have I ever looked at my notes. It's just knowing that they're there gives me comfort. And so, that's how I've done all of these Homerooms now. Is, I do the ten minute walk. And I'm also recognizing that you and I have a constraint around this podcast, which is we only record for twenty minutes at a time. So, there is that little bit of comfort. And not everything has to actually hit the airwaves. But what you said earlier is sometimes the constraint is, "Turn one word into an episode." That is a creative act. And that's sort of exciting. And you and I both have, I believe, a little list somewhere on our computer where we have like one word, one phrase, a list of these one word/one phrase ideas that we will somehow turn into these episodes. So, creating constraints ultimately produces the creativity needed to get the thing out there.

Pete: Hmm. Yeah. I'm curious with your Homeroom, do you think...like I shared with my blog, definitely with the podcast, is your Homeroom riff and theme and structure, is it often rooted in something you're curious about? Like, I'll just ask that question. Is it often something you're curious about exploring?

Jen: I have a very consistent group of artists who are in my Homeroom class. So, it's usually a riff on something I've recognized as a challenge they are facing collectively. So...a lot of them are listening right now, so my secrets are coming out. I don't necessarily say that. I don't say, "Oh, I've noticed a lot of you are struggling with this." But I will take the thing that I've noticed and turn it into something we can unpack both as individuals and as a collective. So most of the ideas, I'm pulling from things I've heard from them.

Pete: Nice. Okay, so you're observing and then sharing back. That's how I would, I guess-

Jen: Empathetic curriculum building.

Pete: Empathetic...woah. That is a really nice sentence. You knew I would love that sentence because the word "empathy" was in it. What I hear in that is, "I'm observing the following things, and then I'm sharing them back." Because I actually think like, if I'm a listener listening to this podcast and I'm thinking about how I might generate more ideas, how I might generate content, like, "How do we unlock ourselves? How do we come up with things to say in a podcast, or in a blog, or in a book, or whatever we're doing," I actually think that the words "observation" and "curiosity" are kind of at the root of all of this. Like when in doubt, "Here's what I observe. And here's what I'm curious about. Or, "Here's what I've observed," and/or, "Here's what I'm curious about." Like they could be separate, or they could be interrelated. I really do think that's what we're doing in all of these environments. And I actually think it's what you do as a coach. Certainly, that's how I think about my leadership and executive coaching, or creative coaching. Is, "Here's what I observe you say, based on what you've said, and here's what I'm curious about."

Jen: I love that. And I want to add something based on Adam Grant's most recent book, Think Again, which is so good.

Pete: Yeah, so good.

Jen: And I recognize that this is a great thought starter too, "This is what I'm changing my mind about." Like, "I'm in the process of changing my mind about, or I've even discovered I'm wrong about, and want to explore the other side of the thing."

Pete: I love that. That's so good. And then I guess the other thing I think about with all of this, in hearing us...I'm trying to like be a listener while I'm hearing us record this episode. I think the other thing that you and I have done, which helps us continue to show up is have practice. Like, we've done one hundred and almost forty episodes. I've written blogs for almost four years, you know, and so have you. And you've done your Homeroom for over a year now, I think, and prior to that many other classes that are the same. And like one example I have of another way I practice is, so I have (I think I've mentioned it before) a group coaching kind of mastermind group with a bunch of brilliant, brilliant changemakers, actually from the arts, and many of them are in your community. And one of the things that we do every two weeks is, I have a...there's a #questionsforpete channel in Slack. And so, I encourage them to put any questions they have over the course of two weeks. And then every two weeks, I'll record what we call a Video Voicemail of me responding to the questions. But the way that I try and approach that (which I think is a practice that helps with everything else that I do, like this podcast) is I won't read the channel until I hit "Record" on the video. So I hit "Record", and then I literally read the question out loud for the first time, and then they get to watch it back. And I've forced myself to think on the spot, forced myself to unpack, be curious, observe, talk about what I've changed my mind about as it relates to that question. And I think that practice, getting those repetitions in has been super helpful in this podcast, super helpful in my coaching, and my personal life, and all of it. So there's like little ways that we can create practices, I think.

Jen: I love that so much. I'm going to totally steal that from you. Love that idea. Okay, there's one other little thread I want to pull. Which is: Why is it, when history has proven to us (meaning you and me) that we have something to say, why do we still feel the need to protect ourselves by saying, "I got nothin'," or, "I don't know if this is an episode,"? And it feels very self deprecating, or like knocking ourselves down. But I almost wonder...like, I'm trying to figure out, what is the psychology of that? Because it's...

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: We literally do it every time. And is it so that we have to then prove ourselves, to ourselves? Like, what is going on there?

Pete: Mmm. That's a great question. My initial response is, I wonder if it's...I don't know if it's imposter syndrome. But it's, I feel like it's a version, or there's a story there because it's likely something that we've not said out loud before. So like, we go back to thinking out loud. So, there's kind of a...it's almost, you're right, it's almost like a disclaimer of us saying, "By the way, I've not actually said these words out loud yet. But I've got a word on my Slack message that I'm thinking about." So I guess it's almost a primer, or a disclaimer to me, to you. Saying, "Hey, Jen, I don't know what direction this is going to go because I haven't thought about it yet." But I don't know what the psychology is.

Jen: This is actually exciting me because a long time ago now, you and I did an episode on perfectionism. And we were both very committed (and I think still are) to rejecting perfectionism, and keeping ourselves open to growth mindset, being messy, being imperfect, making mistakes, saying the wrong thing. And so, maybe what that actually is, is a contract with ourselves to avoid the perfectionism. Huh.

Pete: Ooh, yeah. And it's like the juggle between perfectionism, but also like having a certain standard or a certain quality that we know, based on, you know, how many episodes we've done now. And we have had episodes that don't make it to air, so we know there's like a certain quality threshold. But we also know that we don't want to not ship something, or seek perfection. So we're throwing in that disclaimer as if to say, "I don't know if this will hit our threshold, but I also don't want to be stuck with perfectionism. So let's try it anyway."

Jen: Yes. Yes, yes. And so it turns out, Pete, that even though we always have got nothin', we've always got somethin'.

Pete: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.