The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 138 - Challenge Assumptions

Transcript:

Pete: Hey, Jen.

Jen: Hello, Pete.

Pete: I'm fired up.

Jen: I can see it. What's happening?

Pete: I'm full of energy. I'm full of energy. I've just returned from doing my first in-person, real, human being, live workshop...

Jen: Woah.

Pete: ...for I think fourteen, fifteen months.

Jen: Wow. Oh my gosh.

Pete: Exactly. I think the reason for this energy that I'm feeling...turns out, Jen, I'm an extrovert.

Jen: Interesting. I remember you hypothesizing about possibly being an introvert. Okay, I want to hear more about this. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Pete: So, rewind about probably nine months ago.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: I think you and I...I don't remember if this was on the podcast, but you and I definitely had this conversation. And I was like...you know, we were deep in the pandemic, deep into a lockdown here in Melbourne (like a lot of places around the world). And I remember saying to you, you said, "How are you going? How are you holding up?" And I was like, "Oh, I'm doing great, Jen. Because, you know what? I think I might be an introvert after all this time."

Jen: Yes, I remember this.

Pete: And it's so fascinating to think back on. You know, the broader theory or idea, I guess, is the stories we tell and told ourselves during something like a pandemic (which we're still in) and how they may have been coping mechanisms, or ways that we were able to make sense of how we were feeling in the moment, to get through that moment. Because the introvert/extrovert one I just find fascinating, being someone who got so much energy from doing an in-person workshop. And I was like, "Oh, that's right. I love being around other humans."

Jen: Wow, that is so fascinating. You know, this is really making me think of a series of conversations I've been having with many of my clients over the last couple weeks as the theatre industry is starting to murmur about a reopening plan. So many of my clients in the last year have pivoted to an entirely different industry, or started their own businesses, or gone back to school. And part of the conversation of the last year has been like, "Wow, I didn't realize I would be so happy and fulfilled doing these other things. Maybe I don't even need theater. Maybe I don't even want to act anymore. When the industry reopens, I'm not even going to be paying attention." And now they're like, "Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. I am paying attention. I'm totally paying attention. And now, what does that mean? Like, do I have to choose? Am I allowed to have both? I don't know if I am...," you know, whatever their equivalent of introvert or extrovert. "Am I entrepreneur? Am I actor? I don't know anymore." So this is a really interesting thing that you are bringing up because I'm seeing it too.

Pete: Yeah. I wrote down two words, which I think maybe is how I'm processing your lovely description. I wrote down "test assumptions". And I think that what happened...so, purely for me, in this example. What happened over the twelve month-ish period was because of the conditions of all the constraints and the reality of the world I was living in, I created a story that, "Actually, this is not too bad. I'm an introvert, maybe." And I think you and I talked about ambiverts, which is perhaps actually still where I might sit. Which is somewhere in the middle, a little bit of both. So I created that story or had that realization, which really helped me in the moment. And I didn't really have the capacity or the optionality, even, to test that because we weren't allowed to be in groups of people. So I guess without options, with the constraints I had, I just kind of assumed or decided that that might be true. Now what's happened as we have, in Australia, started to open up a little bit more, and have potentials to be in groups of people, and like I did just yesterday, run a workshop in-person is it's given me the option of challenging those assumptions or testing those assumptions. And I think that idea in general...I mean, it reminds me a lot of Adam Grant's latest book, Think Again, where he talks about being a scientist and challenging and testing the things that you think to be true or believe to be true. So I feel like now as the constraints get lifted a little bit, we (everyone listening) have the option of testing some of those assumptions. And actually giving ourself permission to do that. That actually it's quite healthy to go, "I know I said that last year, but what would it look like if I ran an in-person workshop? Or what would it look like if I went to an audition? Or what would it look like if I didn't do every single thing from my home?" You know, there's an assumption worth testing.

Jen: You know, what's really funny, Pete, is it almost feels like the flip side of the conversation we had at the beginning of the pandemic, when we were testing our assumptions about what we thought was possible pre-pandemic. Like I had mentioned the interview I did with Lili Torre, where I said in December of 2019, "I will never teach acting classes online because it is not possible." And then look, I mean, I moved my entire business online. So, I had to challenge those assumptions. And I'm recognizing that we've been living in our current circumstances for long enough that we believe so much the assumptions that we've made about ourselves in these circumstances, that we're going to have to do the exact same thing on the other end coming out of this. That's so interesting.

Pete: Yeah. Well, I think that's a great point that talks to...I believe we did an episode called What's Next, which was relatively recently. And some of these ideas that, you know, certainly I'm observing, that businesses are having these really interesting conversations around hybrid work, which is part in-person/part online. And I think what I hear in the realization you had is, it's kind of like we're entering a new phase. It's not back to what was, you know, pre-pandemic. It's not what has been during the pandemic. It's new again.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: And I think part of that is kind of like, "Ugh, really? Starting again?" Or like, "Really? I have to rethink about my business as hybrid, not remote and not in-person? Like, what? This is something new?" So it can be a little exhausting, I think, at times, to have to kind of reimagine how you want to shape your business, but also how you want to structure your life. In terms of, "Yeah, there's been some great benefits from doing everything remotely. But also, I'm going to challenge some of those assumptions. And oh, I guess I have to create a new version of my routine, or my life, or my work." It's exciting, but it can be exhausting.

Jen: You know, this is making me think of a conversation I had just yesterday, because we have started looking for a new brick and mortar space. (Shout out to any New York commercial real estate listeners out there, we are looking for a new space.) And it's funny, because we got on our team call and started talking about what we were going to need. And almost immediately (led by me), we fell into the pattern of assuming that we would be functioning the way we were functioning. And what I mean by that is, we were asking ourselves, "What does hybrid mean for us? Does that mean a combo of people in-person and online? Or does that mean we offer an in-person class and we offer an online class? So, that might be our hybrid model." And I was talking about the constraints within the studio space, and then I was like, "Wait a minute, wait a minute. We've never tried to do anything hybrid. Like we've never actually looked at the space and said, 'Where could we mount some cameras? Can we mount the projector somewhere? Where could we drop some mics? Like, how could we actually make the room hybrid?'" But because we had never used it that way, that was not the first thought. The first thought was, "The old constraints are the same constraints." And that's not true.

Pete: I love that. I love that example. Yeah, I think that's what's happening amongst many, many organizations around the world, certainly here in Australia, I've observed that people are reimagining the office. So, it's not what the office used to look like. It's actually, "Oh, what if we made the office a bunch of whiteboards and collaboration spaces?" Because this new world of hybrid might be, we come to the office to collaborate in-person and use the whiteboard. Because certain things still make sense, I think, to be remote. You know, and we've talked about in the past how great it can be on Zoom, for example, when you can get a bunch of people in a room and at the click of a button, split people into breakouts, no matter where they are around the world. You can't replicate that in-person.

Jen: Nope.

Pete: Unless you fly people in and like, you know, somehow arrange people into groups. There are certain things that I think are still better remote. There are still definitely certain things we're realizing are, "Oh, no, that's better in-person." You know, like I ran this workshop, and I was like, "Oh, that's right. I love running workshops in-person for these reasons." And then there's this new middle ground in between. So it's like, "Okay, so how do we integrate the two? Or use the spaces that we used to use to integrate the two, and reimagine how we use those spaces?"

Jen: The thing that's starting to excite me about this conversation is that taking up the motto, "I challenge assumptions," sort of implies there's no finish line for what you're trying to do. That if challenging your own assumptions becomes a practice, then you're always seeking to innovate, improve, and learn. Whereas like, "I'm going to figure this out," feels so finite. And so, I'm excited to try this as we start actually moving our studio back into some version of an in-person. It's like, "How can we challenge every single assumption we have about who's going to show up, what they need, how we interact with each other?" That's really exciting to me.

Pete: Yeah. And I think...based purely on my experience, and I'll share another example. Part of that is not just challenging intellectually and writing down, "What are the assumptions that I've created over the last twelve months? How might I challenge them?" But actually, like, use the word "practice".

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: Actually practicing challenging that assumption. So, I have shared with you offline how I've been like reevaluating a co-working space, "Is that something I want to go back into? I used to go to a co-working space every single day. And do I want to do that? And what would that look like?" And I've had this like intellectual conversation in my head, and I've been writing down notes. And then one day, I was like, "I guess I could just go to a co-working space to visit. Because I know them quite well, they'll probably let me in for one day. And I could try that, and test that assumption. That, 'Well, I could work from home because I've worked from home for a year, and everyone has done that, and it's worked perfectly fine.'" And I walked in the door of the co-working space, and the lady working in reception (who worked previously when I used to go to a co-working space) greeted me with this amazing, "Hello, Pete. So good to see you. How's the last year been?" And we had this probably like fifteen minute conversation, catch-up, in-person, you know, interaction. And I walked away after fifteen minutes and I was like, "I've got to come back to a co-working space." Like just that interaction of testing that assumption, of, "You could work from home. You don't need a co-working space." Immediately, I was like, "Nope. Just challenged that assumption, and I'm totally coming back to a co-working space." Which, I now am.

Jen: Woah, woah, woah. Okay. So this is really cool, because I think you've landed on one of the things that's tripped so many people (including myself, and including many of my clients), tripped us up this year, which is the inability to test out these assumptions. So we like, you know, hypothesize a bunch of theories. Like, "I am going to do this. And I am not going to do this." And we haven't had any chance to test it out. So now as things are starting to open up, people are being rocked by not having tested their assumptions, not having challenged themselves. And they're having to do it in this very like urgent and, "I can't make a mistake," kind of way. So I love what you're saying, which is, "Seek out the opportunity to challenge your assumption, so that you can then make an educated decision, rather than one you've just sort of been fantasizing about for a year."

Pete: Exactly, exactly. And I think in so many cases, there are these low barrier to entry, low risk kind of ways of practicing, or trying, or testing that experiment. So I mentioned, rather than, "I've got to sign up for a co-working space for six months or twelve months," it's like, "Oh, I could go for a day and see if I like it."

Jen: Right. Yeah, that's interesting. One of our mutual friends, yesterday, was saying, "I've been out west for the last year. I'm thinking, like now that things are opening, do I get a new lease in New York?" I'm like, "This New York is different than the New York you left. You might want to come back and visit first. Feel it out a little bit before you decide to pack the truck and drive three thousand miles to get here and then decide you don't like it."

Pete: Right.

Jen: Mmm. Testing and challenging assumptions, I'm so into this. I'm saying, "I'm into this." Jen, are you listening? You need to do more of this.

Pete: Yeah. It's funny because I'm realizing we've talked about this in some capacity in the past, where, you know, the best way to figure out if you like podcasting or want a podcast is probably to record a few episodes of a podcast and see how, try it on, like try it on and see if that is something that you like. Or the best way to figure out, you know, if you want to write a book...I've talked before on this podcast about how I've created a practice of writing. And through doing that, I was like, "Oh, yeah. I think eventually a book will come of this." I could sit around and intellectualize, "Do I want a book? Do I not? Do I want a podcast? Do I not?" But until you actually try it, you can only go so far with the sort of the cognitive intellectual pursuit.

Jen: Another example just popped into my head. So last time you were in New York, which was so long ago...

Pete: Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh.

Jen: ...you ran this brainstorming session for a bunch of artists at the studio. At that point, we were really thinking about moving to a new space. (So ironic.) And one of the things that people shared that they liked about the studio was the convenience of the location. So, I took that to mean the physical convenience of being within walking distance of a bunch of these other places within the theater district. So I brought this up on the team call yesterday, and I wouldn't have said at the time that this is what we were doing, but we challenged the assumption that what people meant was they could walk. And so, we decided to broaden the geographic locations that were viable for the studio. Because the old studio, you could walk to the audition centers in fifteen minutes. Well, what if you could get on a subway to the audition center in fifteen minutes? Do you have to be able to get there by foot, or you just have to be able to get there? And so that was exciting because it opened up a bunch of neighborhoods that we would never, ever, ever have thought to even consider as a location.

Pete: Very cool. Very cool. You made me think...you mentioned the last time I was in New York.

Jen: Aww.

Pete: You made me think that, we make this work (clearly) remotely, and have done so for one hundred and thiry-odd episodes. And yet, still some of my favorite moments are the times that we're recording in-person and we're sharing a mic in your tiny little office back in the day, or we're doing a live Q&A with the people in the room. And I just realized how excited I am to challenge that, as well. Not even that it's an assumption, but just challenge that constraint.

Jen: I challenge the assumption that our future great moments will be in a tiny room in New York. I would like to place the assumption that it will be swimming in the ocean together in Australia. Okay?

Pete: Oof. Alright. Alright. We've got to make it summer (our summer), so it doesn't get too cold. So what do we take from all of this, Jennifer? The ways that we can challenge our assumptions.

Jen: For me, it's that. It's those three little words that I've always needed to hear. No, not, "I love you," but, "Challenge your assumptions."

Pete: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.