The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 140 - Creating Joy

Transcript:

Jen: Hello there, Peter.

Pete: Hey, Jen.

Jen: So I had this experience recently (unexpected experience), where a storytelling exercise that I used in class accidentally brought people quite a lot of joy.

Pete: I'm very intrigued about how you can accidentally as opposed to intentionally create joy.

Jen: Well, I guess it wasn't an accident. It just was not at all what I had my eye on, and not at all what I thought the purpose was, but that was the result. So I kind of want to unpack how we got there.

Pete: Me too. Me too. I feel like this could be unexpectedly joyful for me, and for you, and maybe even for our listeners. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Jen: Okay, so here's the deal. Every month at the studio, we work with a theme. So the theme last month was "Storytelling in Action". So every week, I open the week with my Homeroom class, where I'll take the theme and build it into an exercise for people to explore. So, we're on week three of "Storytelling in Action". And I was like, "Huh, I should have them tell stories about meaningful experiences they've had artistically, things they've seen that are meaningful to them to uncover what story that tells about them, that they would resonate with that material or really fall in love with that piece of writing. What story does that tell about them?" So I send them into breakout rooms to tell the story of a piece of theater or a piece of art that deeply impacted them. And then they all come back into the room, and they have these huge smiles on their faces. And some people are crying, and some people are laughing, and there's just like overwhelming positive emotion in the room. Fast forward. That night, I start getting messages from people, "I had no idea how much I needed that joyful start to the week." "That exercise brought me so much joy, watching other people talk about what they love." "I can't believe how much I needed that." And that goes on all week, I'm getting messages about this. And I'm like, "Huh. I thought I was uncovering like artistic aesthetic and instead, people are connecting to joy in sharing stories of things that they love." So, a totally unintended, positive consequence. And I would love for you to tell me what happened there.

Pete: Well, I was actually going to ask, what do you take away from that? Because I feel like there's a lot of juicy nuggets, and lessons, ideas that could be teased out within that.

Jen: I guess the main thing I take away from it is, talk about the things you love.

Pete: Mmm.

Jen: Share the stories of things that meant something to you, because that feeling of joy is quite contagious.

Pete: Mmm. Ooh, I like that thread. I want to pull that. But first, here's what I thought. My takeaway from that was something along the lines of, you kind of never know where an exercise, or a podcast, or a blog post, or a book might take someone. You could have an intention, of like, "I am hoping to create this experience for people." And it's almost like these exercises, these classes, these books, podcasts, ideas, whatever, they're kind of like living organisms that sort of almost have a mind of their own. And depending on how people interact with them, they might have a different experience. So I am immediately reminded of many of these episodes that we record, but one in particular stands out for me, which was Authenticity vs. Integrity. And...

Jen: Yes, it does stand out.

Pete: Way back...I can't even remember. So long ago, we recorded this. And I distinctly remember listening back to that episode and thinking, "I don't even think this is a very good episode, and I don't think I contributed that much. But Jen was sort of fired up. And I think, you know, someone will get something out of it. We'll see what happens." And we got more messages, and emails, and outrage, but also sheer delight...like both ends of the spectrum, sheer delight to outrage, from "How dare you," to "I can't stand in the world anymore and look at things the same way." And basically, it had this reaction that took on this life of its own that neither of us could ever have predicted.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: And I feel like that is what I hear in your story, too. Is...I don't know what that means, but the things we create, maybe we can unpack that some more. But I feel like there's something in having an intention, or an idea of what something might create, and then almost like letting go of that needing to happen, or that definitely going to be happening, or...I don't know.

Jen: Mmm. Yeah. I'm having a little bit of an aha moment right now about my own preconceived notion of what the exercises are supposed to do. And I recognize that I often gravitate toward exercises that require at least a slight emotional lift to engage in. But this exercise really didn't, or at least did not require something that felt heavy. And what that's making me think is like, "Huh. Maybe I'm relying too much on emotional labor every single week. And maybe there is ease, maybe there's fun, maybe there's levity that can also help people discover themselves, that can also bring people to that moment of self awareness where they're like, 'Wow, I didn't know that about myself. And now, I can take action with that learning.'" Like, it doesn't have to be hard in order to result in self-awareness.

Pete: Yeah. Right. I think there's a secondary intention, perhaps, to lighter questions or to questions that require less emotional labor (especially in a classroom environment, or a cohort, or a team environment) that is creating connections with other people in the room, and almost seeing yourself in other people's stories. So when I run workshops, facilitate calls, do keynotes, whatever, like very often, I will have a breakout or a question that is seemingly trivial, like, "What's a quirk that you have?" You've heard me ask this question in so many different calls.

Jen: Yes.

Pete: And it seems so stupid, and so trivial, and like, "What's the point?" And yet, every single time that I've ever asked that question, you can see, like visibly notice...if you're in a physical room, you can feel the energy change. But if you're in a virtual world, you kind of see it. And I find out something about Jen that I had no idea about, and that changes the posture or the attitude that I have in that moment, and maybe it makes me feel a little bit closer to Jen. And so they're like these trivial non-emotional labor required questions...or, "When's the last time you laughed until you cried?" I've asked that question a number of times. They seem so trivial, but I feel like...well, at least the story I tell myself is, they're actually quite helpful and profound at creating connections, at building empathy, and at changing the emotion and the energy in a room, which I think is really important.

Jen: Ooh, I think you bring up such an important point. Which is, at least in the class that I'm referencing, why do I send them to breakout rooms? To create connection.

Pete: Mm-hmm.

Jen: Yes, I want it to result in self-awareness. Yes, I want them to be able to take action on what they've learned. But they could do that solo in their journal.

Pete: Exactly.

Jen: What's the point of sending them into the breakout rooms? It's to create connection. And when we feel connected to each other, those feelings are lighter, they are more joyful, they are more warm.

Pete: Mmm.

Jen: Ooh, I feel like I'm having really big aha moments that are going to impact my future classes. So, thank you for that.

Pete: But I will say, I think there is merit in both. Like, I feel like there is a really powerful connection and a level of empathy-building that happens when you share a hard thing, too. So if you're doing, you know, a riff on imposter syndrome, for example, and you get everybody to share what their imposter is saying, or if you get someone to share something that's really hard as opposed to really joyful, that can often create a bunch of really interesting connections through vulnerability and the fact that they have trusted one another with this hard thing. So I feel like there's room for both, I guess is what I'm trying to say. And they can have similar results, but just through a different mechanism.

Jen: Yeah. And I'm recognizing that in this particular exercise, similar to sharing something hard, honing in on one experience that feels like really important, really meaningful, really impactful is as personal as sharing something dark and personal.

Pete: Mmm. Mm-hmm.

Jen: The fact is, in both cases, we're talking about something personal. And this is making me recognize, how did I not put this together yet that you and I have had similar experiences with our listeners (hello, listeners) when we do our Favo(u)rite Things episodes, which we get requested to do every so often? And why is that? It's not like we're digging into like very deep, very meaningful things. It's, we're sharing the things that have been impactful to us, the things that we've loved, the things that have moved us, and it helps people get to know us better.

Pete: Huh. Okay, this is getting meta now, because I want to keep pulling on our own thread of us as a podcast. Because, one of the things that we started to do a little while back...I did it as a bit of a joke. (A lot of a joke.) I put up a clip on our Instagram of something stupid that happened during one of our recordings. I was like, "Oh, that's kind of funny. Maybe people will find that interesting."

Jen: (And Jen would find it surprising the first time it appeared.)

Pete: It was a bit of a like, "Oh, I'll stitch up Jen a little bit here. This will be funny." And I remember sharing it, and the reaction we got it was a bit like that Authenticity vs. Integrity episode. I was like, "Oh, wow. We really got a lot of great feedback about this particular clip." And then lo and behold, next time we recorded, something silly happened again, and I shared it again. And basically, it's created this series where without fail, for some reason every week, something a little bit quirky, a little bit unique, a little bit silly happens when we're recording. And we now share one of those a week on Instagram. And people have commented certainly to me (I don't know about to you), and definitely on the page itself of like, "I really appreciate seeing what it's...seeing you two as human beings, laughing, and carrying on, and being silly."

Jen: Mmm. Ooh, yes. And, wow, I'm recognizing that it's a yin and yang sort of thing. That, you know, on the podcast, we try to dig into things that are important. And the feedback we get from listeners is like, "Holy crap. I was listening, I had this aha moment, I can never go back to before." And then, "Thank you so much for sharing that moment when Jen was singing out of tune. Like, that was really, really funny." So there's something about the balance of that, that adds up to like a whole person that you're meeting as opposed to just this one side. I'm having trouble like distilling this all down and like naming the thing that we're talking about, but I'm recognizing that there's room for both. And so, to not include both feels short-sighted.

Pete: Yeah, I don't know what the word is either. Maybe it's "humanity". But I also wonder at this moment in time, in particular, if we find ourselves (not even realizing it), but longing for the laughs and the levity just that little bit more, or the positive spin at least. Like it's almost like we've all done, everyone around the world has done so much emotional labor over the last year, intentional or not. And I feel like there's almost this greater appreciation for, "Oh, let's think about the really happy moment, or a really compelling piece of art that we created." That feels different to like, "Let's talk about the existential crisis that we've all been having over the last twelve months."

Jen: Right. And I recognize that this is a great kind of conversation starter question. If you want to get to know someone, instead of saying like, "Tell me about your work," you could say like, "What's your favorite movie?" Or, "Tell me about your favorite show that you ever saw." Or like, "Who's your favorite like guilty pleasure, eighties hair band," you know, "and why?"

Pete: Yeah. Actually, interestingly, I've started using some of the Brene Brown quickfire questions she has in her podcast at the end. I think she calls it a "Lightning Round." I've actually started using some of those at the start of some of the calls, like I mentioned. And the question that seems to go down the best and creates this hilarious and really quite warm and welcoming intro to a workshop is, "What's the last TV show you binged and loved?"

Jen: Mmm.

Pete: And, oh my goodness. Like, I don't really watch TV so I don't really have much to contribute to that conversation, which then becomes kind of like a running joke of the call. And people sharing, "Oh, I watched this. Have you seen this? Have you thought about this? Like, I'm watching that," that has been quite an amazing like way to just release the valve, almost, at the start of a call.

Jen: Yeah. Which I think circles back to my original intention for the exercise. Which was, what does that say about you? Like, the fact that the thing that you binge watched...so, I'll use myself as an example here. I only binge watch things with my daughter. So, we like to binge watch creative reality shows. So, Song Land, Making It, Project Runway, things like that, where people have to make things. And so, what does that say about me? Well, that says that I value creativity. I value time with my daughter. That I can break my own rules sometimes. Like, it says something about me. And then if someone else is like, "Oh my gosh, I love Project Runway too," we've found someone.

Pete: Mmm. Mmm. A connection, I like that. What does it say about you? Yeah. Okay, so I guess putting all this together...I'm trying to figure out, how do we balance and how do we create environments (whether it's running a workshop, teaching a class, having a conversation with a friend) where you kind of balance what we know to be beneficial, safe space of sharing the hard part or doing some emotional labor with a friend, versus also like making room for joy? Like, how do we think about the balance between those two things? That's the takeaway that I'm trying to get clear on from this episode.

Jen: If I'm being perfectly honest...and why shouldn't I be perfectly honest?

Pete: Please.

Jen: I don't know that I've ever thought about it before. I don't know that I've intentionally ever asked myself, "Have I brought joy into this conversation yet? Have I shared something positive?" I try to always silver-line things. I try to take an optimistic perspective. But an optimistic perspective is a totally different thing than sharing something meaningful to you. And so I'm realizing, I need to ask myself this question. "Have I brought joy into this conversation? Have I brought levity? Have I shared something passionate? Have I asked about what the other person's passionate about?" Like, that could potentially change the tone of every conversation I have moving forward.

Pete: Wow. Yeah, they're good questions to ask yourself. And I think that (again, to keep things very meta) we started this podcast with the idea of exploring the fact that things don't quite go in the way that we intended when we started. And I feel like this episode is actually an example of that. We started by talking about that, and we ended up having a conversation about creating joy versus emotional labor. And I think that that's okay. And that our listeners will take what they need to from this episode based on where they're at, and we don't have to worry about it necessarily marrying up to our original intention

Jen: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.