The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 146 - Anticipation

Transcript:

Pete: Hey, Jen.

Jen: Hey, Pete.

Pete: So, I've been thinking a bit about anticipation of late.

Jen: Antici...pation?

Pete: That's the one. That's the one. Very clever, very clever. And the way that I, we, as humans, anticipate certain events, both good and bad, and then how they play out, and how that marries up compared to what we were anticipating. And as I was thinking about this, I thought, who better to help me unpack this than someone that must have dealt with anticipation on the daily? Especially when you're a performer, the anticipation of a crowd, the anticipation of a show. So, I just feel like this is something I want to bounce around with you.

Jen: Ooh, this feels juicy. Let's do it. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Pete: So, the reason anticipation has been something I've been thinking about is for a few reasons. One has been a very obvious one, which I feel like probably a lot of listeners, probably a lot of people around the globe have been thinking about and experiencing, which is the anticipation of what happens when we are able to congregate, or not wear a mask, or go to a sporting event. And like, it's almost been this fifteen month build up of, "What is that going to be like? Who am I going to talk to first? What is that first dinner going to feel like?" On some level, we might romanticize certain events that we're really excited about. Like for me, I definitely do that with travel. And I'm like (I'm still doing it), like, "Wow. That moment when I finally get to go back to New York and see Jen and all my friends there, that's going to be quite a moment." And then also, there's like the flip side, which I think is the kind of the anxious anticipation of like, "Oh my god, there's going to be people everywhere. There's going to be crowds again. How am I going to go with that? I'm a little bit nervous." And then for me, I've experienced a couple of the events that I was anticipating already, like going to a show, or going to a sporting event, or going out for dinner with a friend. And it's just so funny. When you're like in it, you're like, "Oh. This is it. I'm here. Like, I'm doing it. What was all of that worry for? Was it worth it? Was it healthy? Was it productive?" So that's the like, the context I'm coming from, is just the fascination with the energy we spend anticipating things.

Jen: Yes.

Pete: Is it helpful? Is it not? And then the actual event happens, and then the anticipation has kind of gone. So, what do you make of all this?

Jen: Oh, ho, ho, ho, ho, yes. So the first place my mind goes to, because I think you planted this seed, is opening nights.

Pete: Of course.

Jen: Where like, you know, with a lot of my clients, it's making your Broadway debut. And you anticipate it for so long. And you imagine it, and you dread it, and you love it, and you have all these expectations. And then it happens, you make your Broadway debut. And then the curtain comes down, and you're like, "Oh. Huh. I guess I'll do it again tomorrow."

Pete: Yes.

Jen: Like, all this build up. And then it turns out that the anticipation was the actual event, not the event itself.

Pete: Ooh, wait, say that again?

Jen: I said, "The anticipation was the event, not the event itself."

Pete: Oh, I love that.

Jen: So what's really interesting is, right now I am working with, you know, I've got my summer coaching program going on. So I've got thirty artists, and we're talking all about the industry reopening. Some of them are preparing to go back into their shows, some of them are planning to go back into looking for the next show, and there is a lot of anticipation. And I feel like I'm having to constantly (and this is as much for me as it is for them), constantly drop reminders. "We don't know what we don't know." This is the exciting part. Not anticipating the things we think we know, but opening ourselves to the things we don't know. This isn't about planning everything within an inch of its life, and then missing out on the opportunities we could have never foreseen. Instead, it's, "How do I stay open? How do I make sure I'm seeing the forest for the trees? How do I breathe? How do I put one foot in front of another instead of trying to leap over the moment?" And so I'm just, it's interesting that you brought this up because I'm experiencing it in real time with so many people. And it is an active choice to think in the other direction.

Pete: So I feel like there's a kernel of an aha moment I'm having here. Maybe you can help me unpack this. As I reflect back what I heard and what it's making me think of, the question it's making me think of is: Can you anticipate the unknown? Or is anticipation...I think what I heard in what you were sharing, that the risk of anticipation is we anticipate the way things are going to go and we get attached to how they have to go or how we want them to go. And, you know, I guess we could pull that thread to talk about perfectionism, and expectations, and all of those things which are kind of unknowns in terms of we don't have control over the outcome. And what I want to unpack a little bit is: Is anticipation blocking openness to possibility? I guess. Does that make sense?

Jen: It makes perfect sense. And honestly, I think anticipation is a good thing. But it needs balance. Like, I think it's important to anticipate potential outcomes, or potential conditions or circumstances. But the danger lies in the anticipation starting to masquerade as facts, as like future facts. Because, they're not. And you know, anything can happen at any moment. So I think you're right, that anticipating the unknown is as important as anticipating the things you know.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: I don't know if anticipation itself blocks possibility, but I think marrying the stories that the anticipation creates is the blocker.

Pete: Mmm, yes. I like that. I really like that the fact that you can anticipate both possibility (which is a good thing), and then you could anticipate the way things have to go (and that's not necessarily as productive).

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Pete: Ooh, I like that. It reminds me a little bit of what we talked about a few episodes ago, where we talked about effectiveness and curiosity. And how being too, I guess, regimented...in that episode, we were talking about getting through an agenda in a meeting and then not allowing space for curiosity and the unknown of a conversation. It reminds me a bit of that. If we're anticipating that things have to go this certain way, like I'm going to debut on Broadway and it's going to go this particular way, then we risk not staying open to all of these beautiful unknowns, or these curiosities, or these left turns that might appear in front of us. And then, to your point, I think of like the anticipation is the actual event. It's almost like we miss out on the event, because we're so focused on this outcome.

Jen: Yes. In my studio, we do these five affirmations every month, at the same time each month. It's almost like a practice, wrapping our brains and our mouths (because we say them out loud) around these ideas that we are believing in. And I had a client once who was making her Broadway debut in a principal role. She was really, really nervous, scared, excited, anticipating the event. And she told me that she went behind the curtain about ten minutes before places and just stood there and started repeating her affirmations as a grounding mechanism so that she would actually be able to get out of that highly excited state and be present in the moment, so that she could actually react to what was there rather than reacting to what she was anticipating. I hadn't really put that together through the lens of anticipation. But I remember thinking, "Oh, I'm so glad we're, you know, practicing these affirmations." I never really fully knew when they would come in handy, but that was a moment when they did.

Pete: Hmm. Yeah. That's so good. I mean, there's so many, I feel like there's so many directions to take this conversation about anticipation. I'm anticipating where we might go next. And the two things that are particularly present in my brain, in my noodle at the moment...the first is like how awesome anticipation can be for just one's level of excitement, or intrigue, or interest. Like I think about having a holiday on the calendar, for example, I feel like is something everyone can resonate with. And the anticipation of like, "Oh my god, we're going to go here and it's going to be great. And then we're going to be able to relax, and I'll read a book by the beach, and I'll swim. And oh my gosh, I can't wait to see this new place that I've never seen before." And how actually, that is such a, I think such an important and rich and fun part of the process of a holiday. Is like, the build up, and the daydreaming, and the anticipation of how it's going to be so good. I actually really like that level of anticipation. And it's interesting, I used the word "daydreaming" without thinking, but I feel like daydreaming is a really, can be a really positive version of anticipating things.

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Pete: So, that's one thing. And then the second thing (which is sort of related, but sort of not) is I just, I'm really obsessed with the example you gave right at the start of, "I'm going to do my opening night. I'm going to do my opening night," and then the curtain comes down and you're like, "Oh. Well, nothing really changed. I guess I'll do the same thing tomorrow."

Jen: Yep.

Pete: And it's funny, that example is so relevant to me in this moment. I had a conversation with Tracy last night, my partner, where I was telling her about this really, really exciting new project that I'm going to be doing, and it's got quite a big scope that I'm excited about. And I'm going to dedicate, you know, like a good chunk of the next month or two to this project. And I'm like, "I'm going to do this. It's going to be like this. I'll have to make sure we've got a spare bedroom. And I'm going to have to sleep in the spare bedroom because I'll be working crazy hours and I don't want to...," you know, all of this anticipation of how I might structure it. And she just very matter of factly was like, "I mean, you're also still going to be eating dinner in the same place, and sleeping in the same house, and probably swimming at the same beach. Like, you know, things aren't going to change that dramatically. It's still you living the same version of your life, just in a slightly nuanced way." And I don't know, the way that she so matter of factly just reminded me of that, I was like, "Oh yeah. Of course. Not everything changes just because this new project comes on my radar."

Jen: Mmm. You know, that's so interesting. I'm thinking about like, well, what's the flip side of this? You know, when something is true, its opposite is also true.

Pete: Right.

Jen: I'm also thinking about the times where we deny ourselves when a major thing starts to come your way. Instead of anticipating that it's a one-off and it's an anomaly and you'll never have it this good again, instead, intentionally anticipating that this is your new normal and behaving as if this is your new normal. So I also see that when we are able to use anticipation in the most positive way possible, we might be able to step a little more fully into our potential.

Pete: Yes. Yes, yes, yes. That is so good. Harnessing the power of anticipation as we seek to raise the bar. I like that. I like that. I know we're just jumping around all over the place at the moment, but the other thing I think that most people would be able to resonate with (I'm sure you've had this moment, Jen, I've had so many of these moments) is where we...take like a difficult conversation, for example. And I anticipate how this conversation is going to go, and it's going to be hard, and I'm going to have to share this, and then they're going to be upset, and then it's going to lead to this, and, "Oh my god, I can't," and you build yourself up to have this, what you think is going to be this really hard, meaty, scary conversation. And then you kind of have it and you go, "That wasn't so bad."

Jen: Mm-hmm. Yep. Been there, done that. For sure.

Pete: I feel like we all have. But that, to me, it's this reminder (I think to what you just said) that if we lean into the thing that we're anticipating, as opposed to the anticipation itself, it provides a experience where we can then seek to, you know, raise the bar to. So, you have the hard conversation. You go, "Huh. That's interesting. I anticipated that would go really badly. It didn't really. Okay, I guess my new normal is I'm going to show up a bit more bravely in the way that I have these hard conversations." So, I feel like there's a connection between the two.

Jen: Ooh. Oh my gosh, that's so interesting. Because...I'm chuckling at myself, because I can think of many times I've done this. Where I've anticipated something bad happening, the bad thing happened, and my confirmation bias kicks in and goes, "See? See? I told you. I knew this was going to happen." I can also remember experiences where I've anticipated something bad happening, nothing bad happens, and I go, "Oh, well, that's a fluke."

Pete: Ah, yeah. Yeah. Which of course, I feel like all of this goes back to then the stories we tell ourselves about the things that we're experiencing, the things that we might experience, the things that have been presented to us. And we, as human beings, as storytelling machines, we create stories and meaning almost like after the fact, but also before the fact.

Jen: Yep.

Pete: Hmm.

Jen: I'm curious to know, then, where have you landed on the anticipation scale? Are you feeling like anticipation is a good thing? A bad thing? Both? Where are you landing on this?

Pete: I think I'm landing on both. I could see how...oh gosh, I do this all the time. I've joked on this podcast, I think, before about how I have a phobia of phone calls.

Jen: Yep.

Pete: Because...and I think what happens is, you know, you've got to call the electricity provider and have a conversation about your electricity bill, like such a mundane thing. And I will be like, I'm anticipating how painful this conversation is going to be to the point where I'm like, "I really just don't want to do this." And then, it's so ridiculous. I do the thing. I have the phone call. And I get so energized by the event. I'm like, "Wow. That wasn't hard at all. You could do anything. You can have a phone call with the electricity company."

Jen: Oh my gosh.

Pete: It's so absurd. I know it's absurd. However, the reason I bring that up is I think the negative side of anticipation prevents us from doing certain things, or having certain conversations. So if I didn't pick up the phone and have that conversation, or I didn't give someone the hard feedback that I was anticipating wouldn't be received well, I miss out on all the richness that that might bring. I miss out on the possibility of where that might go, of that energy boost that I get from that ridiculous phone call. So, I'm recognizing anticipation can hold me back. (Me, I'm calling myself out here.) Where I catastrophize or I worry so much that I don't do a thing, and I miss out on that whole experience. So, that I see as a negative

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: Then the positive side, I see. I go back to like the excitement and the daydreaming of what might be possible. "If I start a podcast with Jen Waldman, I have no idea where it might end up. But what might be possible?" And that really got me excited to start this podcast. So that combined with, you know, I think that ties into the really powerful insight you gave. Which is, the anticipation is the event. Like, I think that's such a beautiful, rich insight. You know, the classic cliche that like, "The journey is the outcome," or, "Instead of the outcome is the journey," or whatever that saying is that I've completely butchered. I think there's a real power and strength in harnessing a good type of anticipation. So that's, I guess I land somewhere in the middle. What about you?

Jen: Yeah, I land in the middle. But I want to lean toward the positive. Because I think what we've just named is that when applied with an open mind, anticipation might actually be a tool of possibility. And I think that's pretty darn exciting.

Pete: Anticipation as a tool for possibility. Now that is The Long and The Short Of It.