The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 159 - FOTU

Transcript:

Jen: Hello there, Peter.

Pete: Hello there, Jennifer.

Jen: Well, I'm coming at you today with one of our most beloved topics...got to dig into it from a new angle today. And the topic is, of course, fear.

Pete: I was thinking, "It's either Pete's about to be called out or fear, and maybe it'll be both."

Jen: Well, we could probably arrange that.

Pete: I'm sure it's both. This is The Longer and the Short Of It.

Jen: Okay.

Pete: What's happening?

Jen: Here's the thing. I just signed a lease on the new studio space and sent an absurdly high amount of money to the new landlord. And I experienced so much fear (and not just like cold feet, but like frostbitten feet) on my way to sending the signed lease. And finally, something got me over it. But I kind of wanted to unpack with you like all the crazy (can I swear) shit that was going on in my head, because I had to catch it in order to move past it. But it was rough there for a couple days.

Pete: Yes. Well, firstly, congratulations.

Jen: Thanks.

Pete: Woo, we have a new studio. And secondly, yes, I am super curious about...when it comes to fear, one of my favorite questions is: where is the fear? Or when it comes to my or someone else's like slightly bizarre or irrational behavior, I think a great question is: so, where's the fear? And I do this myself, to be like, "Where is it that I'm scared? And what am I afraid of?" So, let's dig in. Where's the fear, Jen Waldman?

Jen: Well, the fear was quite well-founded. It is fear of the unknown. You know, we're living in this time where nothing...well, first of all, nothing's ever been guaranteed. But right now, it is like explicitly not guaranteed. Nothing is guaranteed. And I had been watching people within my industry from all different positions within my industry, making these fear-based, scarcity mindset decisions. And it was rubbing off on me. I don't blame them at all. I'm not saying like, "I was afraid because you were afraid." But I kind of just picked up on the vibe and decided to run with the narrative that, "My life is coming crashing down around me.” That, "Nobody's ever going to come back to the studio. I've lost my ability to teach. What am I thinking, switching neighborhoods? Why would anyone want to walk one extra block?" Blah, blah, blah. I had come up with every possible reason to not sign the lease. And I have to tell you, something that was very helpful to me...you couldn't have known this in the moment. But it was you asking me about my Broadway debut in the Pete Interviews Jen episode.

Pete: Wow.

Jen: Because in relaying that story to you, I was reminded of a piece of advice my father gave me back at that time, when I was also thinking about making what then seemed like a very major financial investment in something. And I had cold feet, and my dad had said to me, "Do you want to spend the rest of your life wondering what would have happened?" And so I asked myself that question, "Do I want to spend the rest of my life wondering what would have happened if I took that risk, and signed that lease, and opened the new space, and changed things up at the studio, and invited people back in a new way?" And I was like, "No. I don't want to spend the rest of my life wondering about that. I want to find out. And it's very possible that this venture will fail. The environment we're in right now, this could fail. But at least I'll know." And that helped me. It helped me so much to find the gumption to do this thing, which I'm still freaking out about. I'm still so scared. But I feel confident about the decision that I've made, regardless of what the outcome will become.

Pete: I literally have four dot points that I think could take this episode in four different directions, based on what you just said. Let me see if I can unpack a couple of them. The first is just that I think I'd love to call out or call in what you remind me of, is just that nice moment where you realize you never quite know what asking a question and holding space for someone might be doing for them. That interview that we did which was a bit of fun, and it was great, and it hopefully served the listeners...and I think a lot of listeners loved it, given the messages we got. But I had no idea that that was actually going to help you make a pretty significant decision in that moment. So just like, what a great reminder that asking questions, holding space for one's friend or for anyone can benefit them in ways that you can't quite see. I just wanted to call that in. The second was, I feel like you came up with a new acronym, which was: FOTU. Fear of the uncertainty.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: FOTU. Which, you know, in a pandemic/post-pandemic/whatever you call this world, I think it's got to be a universal fear that we're all more attuned to. Because, to your point, it kind of always existed, but we didn't realize it, in terms of nothing was ever really guaranteed. We just had this illusion of control, which the pandemic has certainly up-ended for most of us. And so in the same way that we've talked about, how do we navigate FOPO (fear of people's opinions) or FOMO (fear of missing out), what's the strategy for how we might navigate FOTU? That's one of the other things on my mind. The third thread...I mean, I'm just going to keep throwing these at you for now,-

Jen: Yes, throw them. I am enjoying this so much.

Pete: -then we can pull the one that you want to pull. The third one was, that question that your father asked you (so brilliant), it makes me think of the question of...I've heard this framed in a few different ways, but the one I like the most is, "If you could picture yourself at eighty years old or eighty-five years old, what advice would you give your current self right now? Would it be, 'Play it safe. Don't take the risk. Just, you know, shut it down and do nothing.' Or would it be, ‘I'm so glad that you had a crack, took the risk, tried the thing.’" And I suspect for most of us, we know the answer to that question if we just project to our eighty year old self. And I can't read the writing of my fourth point anymore. So, they're the three. They're the three threads I'd like to throw.

Jen: I think we can maybe call this, "Fear of the illegible." Alright, well, I know what I want to pull on. But I want to also just state for people listening, who are like, "Wait a minute. I'm trying to wrap my brain around some decisions I might want to make." I did a lot of research, and I know what my risk is. Like if this fails miserably, I can already put a dollar amount to it and tell you what I would lose. I have a business model. I have a business plan. It's not like I walked in and was like, "Oh. Well, I have no idea if there are any resources here or how to even structure this, but let's take the risk." No, it is a very calculated risk, but a risk nonetheless. I saw your face go, "Oh, I remember the fourth dot point."

Pete: Well, I remembered the fourth point as you were talking, because you were pulling on the thread without realizing it. Which was, the thing that stood out is the way that you framed this as a decision separate from the outcome. Which, my gosh, if I had a dollar for every time we mentioned Annie Duke's book, Thinking in Bets, I'd be a very wealthy man. But, it's so relevant to this conversation. Which is, you know, the title of the book is Thinking in Bets, what you just described is: you got clear on what the bet was, what the cost of the bet was and is and might be if it goes well, if it doesn't go well. And you recognize that either of those options is an outcome that is sort of outside the control of you. Other than, you can control (as much as possible) setting yourself up to get the outcome you hope to get, with the recognition that maybe there's an 80% chance, maybe there's a 70% chance, we don't quite know, but there's always a percentage chance that it might not go to plan. So the fourth thing I wrote down was, decisions and outcomes. I feel like that's very relevant to FOTU.

Jen: Yes. And P.S., our Book of the Month for the month that the studio reopens is Annie Duke's latest book, How to Decide, which is kind of an addendum to Thinking in Bets. It's amazing.

Pete: Yeah. Yeah, so good.

Jen: Highly, highly recommend. Okay, so the thing I want to pull on is FOTU. Fear of the unknown.

Pete: Yes.

Jen: Or, I think you might have actually called it: Fear of the uncertain.

Pete: Oh, I did. Yeah, you're right.

Jen: Or: Fear of the uncertainty.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: Either way, both uses are accurate here. So something else that helped me overcome my FOTU, my fear of the uncertainty, was two things that kind of rotate around the same idea. One was, as I was negotiating the lease, I actually went through the process of creating my BATNA (my Best Alternative to a Negotiated Agreement), which is a concept you can learn about if you're interested in a wonderful book on negotiating, called Getting to Yes. And it was very clear to me that my best alternative to a negotiated agreement was not as good as a negotiated agreement on this space. So it was really important to me that I find a way to come to agreeable terms with the landlord on this lease, because my best alternative was not going to be as good as me giving in on a couple points to get this lease across the finish line. And connected to that is, I asked myself the question, "Can I accomplish the things I want to accomplish without a space to call my own?" I've been working out of a rehearsal studio that I rent at one of the big New York rehearsal facilities, and the answer...it wasn't just, "No." It was like, "Hell no. There is actually no chance that I can accomplish what I want to accomplish unless I have a space. So maybe it's this space, maybe it's another space, but in either case, I'm taking the risk. So I love this space, let's get this across the finish line." So, knowing what my best alternative was and then asking myself, "What do I really want to accomplish," was so helpful. And the fear is still there, let's just be clear. You can't crush your fear. But you can work with it. You can dance with it. You can move through it. And that's what I've really been trying to do. And it's not comfortable, but it's important.

Pete: Hmm. Was that an impersonation of me?

Jen: That was an impersonation of you doing your, "Crush your imposter."

Pete: I thought so. I thought so. Just checking.

Jen: Your American football announcer voice.

Pete: "Crush your fears." Yeah, that one. Yeah. So, I agree. I agree. So it's really helpful for me to hear, and I think the listeners to hear, the questions you asked yourself. Because I think the acknowledgement of fear always being there, fear being universal, fear being something you can't crush, is like, "Okay, so how do I navigate it then?" That's the thing that goes into my mind. And having a series of questions or scripts is so helpful. So things like, "Can I accomplish what I want to accomplish?" You know, "Here are the options available to me. Can I accomplish what I want to accomplish with this option, with this option, with this option?" Such a good question. The other thing I wrote down as you were talking, which I think is just another way of framing the BATNA, is, "What's the opportunity cost?" And you can explore that question from both decision points, or both options. "What's the opportunity cost of your best alternative to a negotiated agreement?" And it might be this, this, and this. And then, "What's the opportunity cost of the agreement itself?" And so, just getting clear on...you know, whenever we make a decision, there is an opportunity cost as well as a physical, and a real, and maybe a financial cost. There's like an opportunity cost of what you might miss out on or what you might gain through taking one of these options, as well. I wonder if that played any role?

Jen: Absolutely. I have been saying to my team and within the studio community for the last, I don't know, since reopening started to become a conversation within our industry, "I want us to be at the forefront of what change might look like in our industry. I want to model it, and I want to share our processes so that other people can copy what we're doing." How can I possibly do that unless I actually have a place to do it in? So that would have been the opportunity cost, is to say, "Well, I guess I won't use all of these skills that have been developed within our community. I guess I won't work with these amazing people who have offered to collaborate with us to build a better working environment. Instead, I'll just sit back and let other people do that." Which, I hope they do. But I don't want to be left behind there. That's the opportunity cost. Is...you know, this is probably true in every industry. It like makes me laugh so much in the theater industry, we're always like, "Well, in the theater industry...," it's true in every industry. You want to be the person with your finger on the pulse of what is happening. And how can I have my finger on the pulse unless I have a place to work?

Pete: Right. So it dawns on me, Jen, there's a clear parallel here to something I went through about six months ago when here in Melbourne, we went through a period of opening up, and offices were back open, and, you know, there were shows on and there were sports events. And we're since back in lockdown, which is a whole different story. But I remember going through this period of like, "Do I want to go back to a co-working space? Don't I want to go to a co-working space? I've proven I don't need it. What do I actually need it for?" And I lamented that decision, probably because of FOTU and a few other things, for weeks, if not a couple of months. And I've tried to, in this moment, unpack where the similarities lie. And I wonder if one of them might be, since, you know, navigating a pandemic and proving that we can survive working at home, we can make things happen, make change, create a business...you can still do things, working from home. And we've reduced, certainly I've reduced my spend, and my movement, and my external things that I had always taken as things that were necessary (like going to a co-working space every day) and like almost proven, in a way, that we don't need them. And so there's like a fear of, or an awareness of spending money again, and spending energy again...and I actually think, now that I've thought this through out loud, I'd almost ignore those first two. It's almost like a fear of change again.

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Pete: Like I just got used to working from home, and now I'm going to like intentionally create more change in my life. Oof, that feels scary. I feel like the last eighteen months, I’ve had change overwhelm. I don't know, does that resonate?

Jen: It completely resonates. And the truth is, I could stay online and work. Like I have the capacity, and I have the community that would stick around if we went online. But our industry is open.

Pete: Right.

Jen: So if we want to be active contributing members of our industry, we've got to acknowledge that our given circumstances have changed. (There's that C-word again, that "change" word.) And we've got to roll with the changes. Like, we've got to change too. But you're right, it was so nice to not have to pay rent for the last eighteen months.

Pete: Right. I think that's a real reality. Is like, "Oh, but I did save a lot of money on rent.

Jen: Oh my gosh.

Pete: And so, back to your question though: "Can I accomplish what I want to accomplish, you know, working in this way versus working in that way?" And I think if I was to overlay that brilliant question with the decision I ended up making, which was, "Yes, I'll go back to a co-working space,"...which, by the way, didn't quite pan out because I've paid for co-working space and I can't go to it.

Jen: Back in lockdown.

Pete: Back in lockdown. However, what I realized was, "No. Working from home, I can't accomplish what I want to accomplish because it's stifling my creativity, it's limiting my ability to meet people. At the co-working space I have interactions, which gives me a spark as an extrovert, which pays off in the conversations you and I have, in the work that I do, in everything else." So, I think that question applied to me six months ago. I didn't ask myself as thoughtfully as you did, but I think it's a question worth noodling on for everyone moving forward, as we navigate whatever this next little phase of the world looks like.

Jen: I guess I'm moving from fear (and FOTU) to celebration (or COTU).

Pete: What's COTU? Oh, celebrating the unknown.

Jen: Yes. Because, we're moving into a new space. It is happening. Construction is starting next week. And in a couple weeks, I'll be able to welcome my community back into my space. So rather than fearing that moment, I am choosing instead to celebrate. COTU.

Pete: Choosing celebration over fear. And that is The Long and The Short Of It.