The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 160 - Billionaires and Abs

Transcript:

Pete: Hey, Jen.

Jen: Hello.

Pete: I've been revisiting some old books, and podcasts, and interviews that I remember finding particularly profound about four or five years ago.

Jen: Mmm.

Pete: And unsurprisingly, I'm feeling called out by a few things. And I need you to help me process some of them.

Jen: Oh, this is fascinating, because I just did the math and four or five years ago was your altMBA transformation time. Hmm, let's dig in. This is The Long and the Short Of It.

Pete: So, you're quite right. So one of the books I've decided to reread is a book called Tools of Titans, actually, by Tim Ferriss.

Jen: Yes.

Pete: Which was a great book because it's sort of a compilation of all of the podcast guests that he's had. Not quite transcripts, they're kind of like, "These are the four or five things I took away from that interview." So basically, it's like you get to hear from...you get bite size insights from hundreds of thought leaders across all of the disciplines right around the world. So, it's really cool. So firstly, one of the things that's been funny to observe...because I read that prior to altMBA. I read that when I was, you know, to go back to the you interviewing me episode, where I was lamenting over one year, a few years, how I was going to get out of the job that I was in. And I've like highlighted things like, "You got to take risks. Quit your job," you know, like things like this. That was funny to reflect on. But then, there's other things that I've picked up that I hadn't quite picked up. So like, firstly, I think there's a rich reminder for me to revisit the good stuff. Secondly, the thing that really I can't stop thinking about is this line from Derek Sivers. And this is what I want you to help me unpack, which is, "If more information was the answer, then we'd all be billionaires with perfect abs." And it's hilarious. But I think the more I think about it, the more I'm finding that statement so profound. Because (this is where I get called out) I am so good at consuming podcasts, at consuming books, at even having conversations like this with you, and I guess taking in a bunch of inputs, a bunch of information. And I totally acknowledge that I'm perhaps not as strong at executing on some of it, at like taking these things that you're reading that are so profound and actually putting them into action, versus being like, "Wow, what a cool aha moment. Where's the next book that I'm going to read?" You know?

Jen: Mmm, yeah.

Pete: So I'm not a billionaire with perfect abs, and I consume a lot of information. So, I guess there's something here around...I framed it in my head as like consumption versus execution, or something like that. How do you think about this?

Jen: I feel like first I have to make two observations that have nothing to do with the topic. But one is, Tools of Titans looks like it is going to be the heaviest book you've ever lifted, and then it's light. Like, what? What's up with that? How is that possible? It's so weird. So, there's that. And then the other thing is, I have literally no desire to ever be a billionaire with perfect abs. Is that okay?

Pete: I think that's okay, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I don't think I do either.

Jen: Like, no. I just, I don't want that lifestyle. Okay. Anyway, this is so up my alley because I'm kind of obsessed with gathering information. But to your point, it's not the information that matters. It's what you do with it that matters. And pre-pandemic, I had this ritual every single day, which I will share with you in case it is helpful to you.

Pete: Please.

Jen: I used to do this thing called Thoughts From the Subway. And for a while I thought of releasing these as like a podcast...never did it. But I would put on a podcast, I would ride the subway to work, and then when I got off the subway, I would turn on my voice memo app. I didn't have Otter really yet. So I would turn on my voice memo app and I would talk to myself from the point when I got off the subway to the moment I was putting my keys in the door at the studio, connecting the dots to what I just heard and what I was about to do, whether it was see a private client or teach a class or work on some business stuff. So, I had this morning ritual where I was gathering information and then immediately applying it to something even if it felt irrelevant. Like, that was the creativity part, "How am I going to apply that?" During the pandemic, I lost that for a while. And then I started taking walks around the neighborhood to revive that again, and it was so so so helpful. So, that's one thing. The other thing is the note taking in the books. I cannot be prescriptive about how people take notes in their books. I have my own way. I'm sure you have your own way. If you've ever heard Gretchen Rubin talk about it, oh my gosh, she has a way. But opening up an old book and seeing what resonated with you back then-

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: -could actually be a great measurement tool, to hold yourself accountable to applying knowledge that you acquire. So like, did you do anything? You did. You quit your job, Pete.

Pete: Right. Yeah, because there were definitely things that I was like, "Oh, that's great. That's no longer relevant."

Jen: Yes. It also shows you how you've grown.

Pete: Right. Exactly, exactly. I've been thinking about this. In fact, one of my things that I noted at the start of the year was in the past I'd tried to read, you know, some version of like, "As many books as possible," or like, I think it was forty-ish books for a few years in a row. And I actually intentionally peeled the number back and said, "What if you read twenty-five or thirty, and revisited the notes, and put them into action, and like actually a little more thoughtfully and intentionally consumed these books?" So this idea of putting learnings into action is something I've been thinking about for many years. What this quote prompted me to consider is, "What am I missing in my process, or my practice? How might I do it better? How might I do it better?" Yeah. I don't know if you get asked this, I get asked this quite a bit, "You consume so many things, how do you put them into action?" And I don't really have a great answer or a great process for it. For the longest time, my answer was kind of like, "Oh, I just trust that the good stuff will stick." Which is sort of still true. But I'm also trying to get better at revisiting notes, putting certain things into action. And the call out for me was like, "Oh, yeah, I probably got the balance wrong of consumption versus execution, I think. Because I love, I enjoy the consumption.

Jen: Yes, it's wonderful.

Pete: Execution is the emotional labor, it's the hard part. Hmm.

Jen: Well, I think you're missing a step. Like there's got to be a synthesis before execution, or you know, a processing. You take the information in, then you process it, and then you apply it. If you go directly from intake to application, I don't know, that feels to me like leaping over maybe the most important part of it, is asking yourself, "In what ways is this relevant to the work that I am doing?"

Pete: Yeah, that's really good. It reminds me, actually, of something you said in a recent episode around making a decision. And you said, "Can I accomplish what I want to accomplish with these particular options?" And you were talking about the options of opening a studio again. And I wonder if the same question applies, like which of these tools, or learnings, or things that I highlighted in a book, for example, helps me accomplish what I want to accomplish? Which also validates the need to revisit books, because the things that we want to accomplish change over time.

Jen: Yes. You know...okay, a couple things are coming up for me. One is, this summer, I had my reading list and I had a rereading list. So, I was on that same wavelength with you. I reread, it was about like six books this summer that I felt I needed to revisit because my industry was changing so much. And these were books that had some principles that I believed wholeheartedly in, but had consumed at a time when my industry was operating completely differently. So, I wanted to check in...very, very helpful. And the other thing is that sometimes you read a book, or I could say, I read a book, and I will write things in the margin like, "What that F," or, "Hell no," or, "Disagree, disagree, disagree."

Pete: Oh, really?

Jen: I will yell at a book. And I find those kinds of books to be as helpful as the books that I'm like, "Confirmation bias. I believe in this already." You know?

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: Like, "I can say this is so true." The books that offend me helped me develop my personal constitution. And then I can, again, say like, "Okay, how am I going to apply that in my work today?" Like, "My distaste for the way this author framed this idea, how am I going to combat that and frame it in a different direction today?"

Pete: I like that, yeah. It reminds me of the thing I was told once upon a time...gosh, the source I can't remember. But I was told, "You often learn more from the bad managers than the good managers." And I think that's so true, because you get clarity in your constitution. Which is actually...you had this great idea that you shared in the podcast where you interviewed me, around, "The worst advice you received is actually the best advice you received, because you could figure out the opposite (or something) of what they were saying." Yeah.

Jen: So what's your intention in terms of finding moments of synthesis, or processing, or noodling, connecting dots? Like, how are you going to add that stage?

Pete: I guess this is what I'm trying to figure out, hence it's why I'm bringing it to you. I think a couple of things come to mind. One is, like I have so many things that I've highlighted in this book and many other books. Obviously, you can't execute all of them. You can't just flip your life upside down and just do every single thing completely differently, I don't think. That's not my intention at all, nor do I want to, nor do I think that would be helpful. There's a great example actually, where Warren Buffett has said, prior to taking a Dale Carnegie course on public speaking, he was like absolutely terrified of speaking in public, of having to go on stage. Like many people, he feared public speaking. He took a Dale Carnegie course. It really helped unlock for him how and why public speaking is important, and gave him a skill set or some tools to be better. What he then did after that, though (the story goes, legend would have it) is he went to Omaha University and said, "Can I please be a teacher? I want to be a teacher," so that he could deliberately practice constantly speaking, speaking, speaking in front of people. I think about that example as it relates to the question you just asked me, of like, "What's my equivalent of going to a school or a university and saying, 'Can I practice this thing?'" I don't know if I've exactly landed on what that is yet. But I do think it's things like...talking to you about it on this podcast is one step of synthesis. And writing is definitely one step of synthesis. And asking questions...I think asking questions is probably my favorite form of synthesis. Because questions like the ones we've already explored, around, "Is this going to help you get to where you want to go? What might success look like if you execute this? What do you want success to look like?" I think those kinds of questions are important. So my default is kind of like journaling, and writing, and talking to you about it. Am I missing anything? Or maybe, what's your process? (Is a better way of me asking the question.)

Jen: Well, I feel very fortunate. And I think you're in a similar position, Mr. Shepherd, that I'm in a creative field where my job is to design conversations with people and to create opportunities for other people to grow. And one of the golden rules of that kind of work is, "Failure is allowed." So I feel okay bringing in a half-baked idea into my work and testing it out, so long as I'm upfront, saying, "I just heard this thing on a podcast. I think we should play around with it and see if it has legs in this space." And sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn't. But either way, you learn something. So I think because you are a coach and you are working one-on-one with clients all day, that you have a similar opportunity, so long as you're upfront about saying, "I just heard this thing, how might we use it in today's conversation?"

Pete: Mmm. It's so wild that what you just shared is so ridiculously timely and relevant and helpful, so thank you. So I'm going to paraphrase this quote, but yesterday (just yesterday), Tracy read a quote to me that was something like, "I'll give you the most simple formula for success. And that is: Double your rate of failure." And her and I talked about like, what a great way to a try and reframe failure a little bit, but also reframe success a little bit. And actually, what I wrote at the top of my notepad this week was, "How might you double your rate of failure?" I've actually been grappling with, "What does that look like when it comes to writing, or podcasting, or coaching, or speaking?" I think you're right. I think it's taking ideas, examples, things you've read that a half-baked...I mean, literally every episode of this podcast, we start with, "I've got a half-baked idea."

Jen: If only the listeners could hear a compilation of how we start before we actually say our hellos. It's like, "Do you have anything? Do I have anything? I've got something that's like, err, I don't know."

Pete: Which is exactly how this conversation started. So yeah, maybe it's thinking about it through that lens: How do you double the rate of new ideas that you bring to the table, or ideas that you're trying to figure out how to incorporate into your life to the table?

Jen: Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Because every time you fail, you learn. And the reason you're reading books is to learn. Like ultimately, that is at the heart of why you're consuming all the books and the podcasts in the first place, is to learn and grow. And that is what failure allows you to do.

Pete: Hmm. Yeah. So, the other thing I was thinking was...I was talking to Tracy about this afterwards. "How do you frame it for yourself in a way that feels actionable?" So like I mentioned, at the top of my notebook, I wrote, "What would it look like to fail twice as much this week?" But then when I looked at, you know, the things that you do in any given day, it's hard to think, "What could I do today to fail?" So the assertion I came up with was, maybe the way to frame it is, "What risk might I take today?"

Jen: Yes.

Pete: Because the thing that makes it a risk is the possibility that it might fail. So, I don't know. I feel like, here I am...

Jen: You're speaking my language.

Pete: I feel like I'm talking to myself in circles, coaching myself, calling myself out, and you're just very generously holding up the mirror.

Jen: No, it's so good. And I'll tell you, at the beginning of each one of my classes, I have everyone name a risk that they're going to take in their work that day. And I always redefine risk, in case they're like, "Oh, I'm going to give myself a challenge." I'm like, "No. It might be challenging, but if you know you can do it and you know how it's going to turn out, it's not a risk. A risk has to be something that you don't know what is going to happen when you try it. That makes it a risk. But I'll double down on this and share that one of our mutual friends, Becca Brunelle (very brilliant), introduced me to this idea of what I now call risk stacking, which is intentionally taking multiple risks at the same time. Because when you take one risk, it feels like your whole life is revolving around that one risk. But when you take four risks at the same time, they don't seem like that big a deal because you're doing them as a clump. So I've written a couple blog posts about this, I'll drop them in the Box O' Goodies. So taking multiple risks, stacking your risks so that you can experience more failure, so that you can experience more growth.

Pete: Thank you for the reminder on risk stacking, Becca Brunelle and Jen Waldman. So, okay. Let's go back to, I don't necessarily want to be a billionaire with perfect abs. However, I see that as a generic definition of success. So based on my definition of success, what I'm realizing is I need to add a stage between reading or inputting a podcast, and putting into action to get me towards that version of success, and that looks like taking more risks.

Jen: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.