The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 196 - Vujà Dé

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, Pete.

Pete: Hello, Jen.

Jen: It's so strange, I feel like I've been here before.

Pete: You mean, like two hundred times?

Jen: Yes, like déjà vu. But today, I actually wanted to talk to you about the reverse of this phenomenon. I'd like to discuss vujà dé.

Pete: Did you say "vujà dé"?

Jen: Indeed, I did, my friend. Indeed, I did.

Pete: It sounds like something you've either made up or read, and now we're going to have a bunch of fun talking about it. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Jen: Maybe ironically, maybe not ironically, I didn't even remember this term vujà dé until yesterday. I was searching for something else on my computer, and then something I wrote on February 4th, 2018 popped up.

Pete: Woah.

Jen: I guess there was a word that I was searching, that was in this particular thing I wrote. So here it is, February 4th 2018: "I just heard the term 'vujà dé' for the first time. It is a slang term that essentially means the opposite of déjà vu. If déjà vu is knowing you are experiencing something for the first time but feeling that you've done this before, vujà dé is knowing that you have done this many many times before but feeling that this is the very first time. I absolutely love this. What a great way to describe the moments in which we innovate and create new ideas. This is what we are striving for in our auditions in rehearsal and onstage."

Pete: Woah.

Jen: And then I put a link to a book, called The Vujà dé Moment: Shift from Average to Brilliant, by Simon T. Bailey.

Pete: Wow.

Jen: Now, I had completely forgotten about this. But when I saw it yesterday, I was like, "Oh my gosh. I now, ironically, remember hearing this and thinking what an amazing concept to strive for, this made-up term, 'vujà dé'. When you're doing something you've done so many times before, to look for the ways to make it feel like it's the first time."

Pete: Aha, I like this. So thank you, past Jen, four years ago Jen. So, you're...just for me to try and understand what you just said. You're suggesting it could be a good thing for us to harness because it allows us to show up with fresh eyes, even though it's something we've done many times before. Is that right?

Jen: That is exactly right. Now, I feel like our listeners know this about me, but maybe it's worth sharing that I've done a couple long-running Broadway shows. And when I was doing those shows, like Wicked for example, I performed that show over a thousand times.

Pete: Wow, the same show a thousand times.

Jen: Yeah, exactly. And a question I get all the time at panels and talkbacks is, you know, "How do you keep performances fresh?" And I think vujà dé is the answer.

Pete: Right. Right. Yes. Yes, okay. Now it's starting to make sense. Because that's the thing that baffles me and I know many others (what you would call "muggles", those that aren't in the performing world), that you can consistently show up every single day, like six or seven times a week...or was it eight times?

Jen: Eight times. Eight times a week.

Pete: Eight times a week, in the same role, saying the same lines, singing the same songs, performing the same acts...like, that is mind-blowing. So I think, yeah, I feel like this term was invented for performers or actors.

Jen: Well, I think anyone who has some element of their work that is repeated...you know, you do your keynotes over and over and over again. And of course, it's new every time because the audience is new every time. And I know just from hearing you talk about it that you change pieces out, and you add stories, and you take away stories. That's how you practice vujà dé.

Pete: Interesting. I was going to ask, am I avoiding vujà dé or am I practicing vujà dé? Because you're right, I have certain topics that I'm often asked to come and speak about to audiences, and I intentionally change stories or components. Or having Q&A allows for it to always be fresh for me. So, I don't feel like I'm saying the exact same thing over and over and over and over again. I'm saying the same thing but through a different story, or through a different answer to a different question I've received. So that is, huh, that is vujà dé. What a fun word, "vujà dé", or phrase.

Jen: Right? Now, to be completely fair and transparent, I flagged the link to this book that I said I was going to buy and then I never bought it, so this is my interpretation of something I wrote down four years ago. But I did go ahead and buy the book last night, so maybe we'll do a follow-up episode where we determine if this conversation is actually accurate to the author's intentions.

Pete: Yes.

Jen: But my guess is that vujà dé, when practiced well, is practiced taking into account the context. So for you with your keynotes, it makes a lot of sense that when you're doing the same content over and over again, you would add and subtract things and do it differently. When I'm doing Wicked a thousand times, I have to be standing in the same place every night, saying the same words at the exact same moment, because everyone else onstage and everyone who has worked on the design elements and our stage managers and our technicians, everyone is expecting that. So if I went out on stage and changed out a line, it would ruin the show. So it depends on the context, I guess, of what you're actually working with, what freedom looks like within the vujà dé world.

Pete: Freedom within the container, yeah, I like that. I like that. It feels like a great way to summarize leadership, in a way too. Right? Like, a leader often provides the container, whether that be the vision, the strategy, the goals, or the direction of where we're heading. And then within the container, I think a good leader allows the people that they're leading to innovate/make up whatever they want, or approach the situation in whatever way they choose or within the confines of that container, if that makes sense.

Jen: It does. And I know that we've said many times that like the last dying gasp of an organization or of innovation is, "This is the way we've always done it."

Pete: Right.

Jen: And so it seems like practicing or committing to vujà dé is the antithesis of, "This is the way we've always done it." Because if you are doing things that you have done before, this mindset, I think, allows you to ask, "How might we do this thing that we've done so many times before, like the annual meeting, or the off-site, or 360s, or onboarding new employees, or whatever it might be? How can we treat it as if it's the first time, and find the newness in it?"

Pete: Mmm. Okay, okay. Yes, I follow. I fellow. So recently, we did an episode about forks in the road, and we talked about, "How do you decide which path to take if they both end up in the same place, or achieving the same goal, or both are in alignment with your values?" And I feel like there's a rhyme, I guess, between what you just said and that idea. Which is, "The way that we do things around here, in running an annual meeting for example," vujà dé is not saying, "Don't run the annual meeting." It's saying, "If the goal is to run an annual meeting and update your shareholders or update your employees about the status of the company," vujà dé would say, "How do you make that fresh? How do you find a different path to deliver on the same outcome?" I think.

Jen: Mmm-hmm.

Pete: Am I right? Again, we haven't read the book, so...

Jen: I mean, we think so?

Pete: Listeners, if you know anything else, please email us at hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.com.

Jen: This is also making me think about a class I teach called Studio Workshop, where basically vujà dé is the foundation of the entire class. That, I'm trying to help artists act more impulsively on material that they know. And in fact, we have one exercise that I call "The Steve Pacek". Steve is one of our teachers at the studio, and one of my longest and dearest friends. And the instructions when I assign someone "The Steve Pacek" is, "Go ahead and do it again, as you've never done it before." Meaning, "Know you've done it many times before. That is in your experience with this material. Now, go out of your way to do it as you've never done it before."

Pete: Woah.

Jen: "If you started in the center, start upstage right. If you're always facing downstage, face upstage. If you're singing this line forte or loudly, go ahead and sing it softly." So, we just intentionally change things. Not because we're going to keep everything that we change it to, but because it allows for discovery and innovation. And then, we keep what we find that we like or that is useful, and we let go of the rest.

Pete: Ooh, I love that. It also strikes me as something that is good for your brain. In that, it's creating new neural pathways that you haven't previously discovered or explored. Like, there's a...there was a show on TV here in Australia called Train Your Brain, I think it was, and they did a bunch of different experiments or raised a bunch of different quirky ideas for how we might improve our cognitive function. (I'll find it and pop it in the Box O' Goodies.) And one of the things they talk about is, "If you are someone who commutes to an office every day or goes to the gym every day, find a different way to go there. So travel down a different path, or a different street, or take a left turn when you usually take a right turn and then go around the block. Go a different way every time." And that's a really good way to enhance your cognitive function, to develop new neural pathways because you're seeing different things, literally, and you're interpreting those in new ways. Which, yeah, I think is what you just described too. Hmm.

Jen: Yeah. It's getting me thinking, I want like a whole vujà dé catalogue or backpack of ideas. That when you feel you're like in that rut of doing things the same way over and over again, that you would be able to pull out a tool and be like, "Oh, I can use this to create a little more vujà dé." Like for example, when I have clients who are in long-running shows and they tell me that they're struggling with keeping things fresh, I like to give them a book as a gift. I usually give the same book every time, and I just encourage them, "Before you go onstage tomorrow, randomly open,"...it's a book on acting, P.S., so it has to do with what they're about to go out onstage and do. I say, "Open to a random page, read a couple sentences, and then figure out how to incorporate those sentences into your performance the next night."

Pete: Huh.

Jen: So it gives you a chance to continue to work on your craft, improve your skills, push yourself, and do your job at the same time.

Pete: Right. So, I feel like what I hear is that to practice vujà dé...gosh, it's fun to say, "Vujà dé."

Jen: Isn't it?

Pete: To practice vujà dé (let me just say it one more time) is requiring a growth mindset. That what we're suggesting is, if you're doing the same thing over and over and over again, one way to think about that might be with a fixed mindset, which is, "Well, I know how to do this. I'm just going to do it the exact same way every single time, and I'm not even going to think about it. I'm not even going to challenge myself. I don't think there's anything else for me to learn here, so I'll just regurgitate what I already know." Versus perhaps a growth mindset, which is thinking through the lens of, "Okay. So I've done this before, but I know that there's always something else for me to learn. There's always something else for me to try. There's always something else for me to experiment with. Still in pursuit of the same thing, but I'm recognizing that it's never done. It's never perfected. It's never complete." Like to me, that is...you know, we talk a lot about the real skills of leadership and creating change, like empathy or humility or curiosity. That, to me, is a great example of having to practice a skill over and over and over again without a destination or endpoint.

Jen: Mmm-hmm.

Pete: And so, I wonder if that is relevant too. Right? Is like, in order to practice vujà dé (I just wanted to say it one more time), we need a growth mindset and a recognition that there is no end point. I guess what I'm saying is...or what I'm reminding myself of is the infinite game, that Simon Sinek has talked about and a few others.

Jen: Yeah. It's also making me think about vujà dé in the context of personal relationships.

Pete: Oh.

Jen: Like, you're...I'm pretty sure you said the word "fiance" on this podcast at some point, so it's out there that you, at some point in the future, are going to be getting married. Congratulations.

Pete: Thank you.

Jen: And I think that means that you're committing to, for the rest of your life, going to bed next to and waking up next to the same person every single day, over and over and over and over again.

Pete: You make it sound so appealing.

Jen: Hey, I've been doing it for twenty years. I like it. I like it. I highly recommend. But I'm thinking if you apply the practice of vujà dé to something as mundane as going to bed, and waking up, or making the coffee, or sitting next to each other on the couch, or whatever it is, that it could really add layers of enjoyment to personal relationships.

Pete: Wow. Okay. So you just reminded me of one of my favorite YouTube videos/commencement speeches/books that I've ever heard of, I've ever consumed, and I've ever read, and watched...all the formats. So David Foster Wallace, who was a, I believe, a famous writer, who did this incredible commencement speech. And it got turned into this like animated video, and it was, the video is titled This Is Water. (And I'll definitely put this in the Box O' Goodies.) And then someone turned the transcript into a book, a little book that you can reread the speech. And it's, I don't know, it's had millions and millions and millions of views, such is its profound wisdom. But the ultimate...I don't want to give away too much. I mean, the punchline is kind of...he tees it up in the first minute. Which is, "A fish that swims past another fish and says, 'Hey boys, how's the water," and keeps swimming. And the fish turns to his friend and says, 'What the hell is water?'" And the idea is that the things around us that we are surrounded by, the mundane things that we take for granted or are confronted with every single day, either we forget, we fail to appreciate, we don't remind ourselves that that is something that is amazing and unique and incredible. And we ultimately, what I think I'm saying is, we fail to practice vujà dé in these moments. And then, he goes on to talk about...again, you have to just watch the YouTube video. He goes on to talk about, you know, those days where you get home from work, you haven't got anything in the cupboard, you drive to the supermarket, and it's that mundane ritual of going through the grocery aisle, waiting in line. And just like how, on one hand, you could choose to buy in to how tedious and painful and boring and how much drudgery is involved in that. Or you can choose to think differently and choose to, what I think, practice vujà dé, and look for the remarkable, look for the gift, look for the opportunity within that drudgery, if that makes sense.

Jen: Yes. Oh my gosh, I am loving this so much. I'm so interested...listeners, especially those of you who have been with us for the near two hundred episodes of us starting the podcast, "Hey, Pete. Hey, Jen," two hundred times in a row, you know, I'm just so interested if there are listeners out there who know about this concept already, or if this has sparked something in you. I'm so interested to hear what it is bringing up. And Pete mentioned it earlier, but you can reach out to us at hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.com to tell us about your vujà dé moments.

Pete: Yeah, we would love to love to hear from you. And I'm wondering, Jen, you joked about like the, "Hey, Pete. Hey, Jen," we do every single episode. And in like some weird meta way, my brain is trying to work out, is that a moment of vujà dé? Where we start with the same intro, we have the same constraint or container on our podcast, which is, "Let's talk about one thing for twenty minutes," and sometimes we talk about similar topics but we always try and approach it with fresh eyes, fresh perspectives, fresh insights, fresh questions that may be helpful for ourselves, but also for the listeners.

Jen: Yes. I mean, the more I think about it, it feels like a resounding yes. That after two hundred, nearly two hundred episodes of signing on, having a conversation, and signing off, that you and I, without even knowing it, have committed, at least within this relationship, to practicing vujà dé.

Pete: And that is....actually, I want to say it one more time. "Vujà dé." And that is The Long and The Short Of It.