The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 197 - Self-Promotion

Transcript:

Jen: Hello there, listeners. We are coming up quickly on Episode 200 of The Long and The Short Of It, and Pete and I have decided to do something a little different for that episode. We are doing an Ask Me Anything episode...well actually, an Ask Us Anything episode. So if you have a question you'd like to ask me, or Pete, or both of us, head on over to thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/ama, and ask us your questions. Enjoy this week's episode.

Jen: Well, hello there, Peter.

Pete: Well, hello there, Jennifer.

Jen: We recently got a request from a listener to talk about something that I think is going to make you want to go take a shower, maybe even one of your famous cold showers.

Pete: Oh, there's a few topics going through my head...a few topics going through my head of what this could be.

Jen: Okay, well the topic is ([fanfare] bum-bum-bum-bum): Self-promotion.

Pete: Ughhhhh. [laughing]

Jen: [laughing] Oh, this is going to be a fun one.

Pete: Oh, this is delightful. Great, my favorite topic. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Jen: Listeners, you can't see...but he's literally like dragging his hand down his face with a look of doom and gloom. Okay, so let's not get too far down the dark and gloomy rabbit hole, because I think maybe just coming out of the gate with a quick little reframe could be very helpful.

Pete: Alright, hit me. I love a reframe.

Jen: I think we need to do away with the idea or the phrase "self-promotion", and instead, replace it with another phrase like "idea-promotion", "purpose-promotion", "vision-promotion", also known as what we have talked about on an episode that we've gotten lots of feedback on from listeners who thought it was very helpful, "spruik". S-P-R-U-I-K.

Pete: Spruik. Could you say it in an Australian accent for us?

Jen: [in Australian accent] Spruik. [laughing, with Pete] Yikes, sorry about that.

Pete: Yeah, so "spruik" being an Australian word that I didn't realize was an Australian word. And I said to you, at some point, "We should spruik our podcast," which to me meant, "We should share our podcast with people. We should put it into the world so that people know it exists." And you were like, "I've never heard that term before," which sent us down a whole rabbit hole, and there's an entire episode on that word. But yeah, I like where you're going with it. So instead of promoting oneself, we can revert back to this idea of spruiking, which is to promote an idea.

Jen: Exactly. Promote something that someone else would care about. And it's possible that even the word "promote" might make you want to take a shower...a cold shower.

Pete: Yeah. Yeah, I'm still feeling like I need a shower.

Jen: Right. So we can think of it as "share an idea", "invite people to participate in a vision", "connect". There are so many other verbs that could replace "promote". So I just, I thought we should start there. Because self-promotion feels so...I mean, I guess this is as obvious as it gets...feels so self-centered, so about ego, so about me, me, me. And I don't know about you, but I've rarely connected to someone who just stood in front of me and told me all about themselves. We know that if we practice empathy when we're sharing ideas, we can help people feel connected to the idea that we're sharing. So I just find it really helpful to get away from "self-promotion", and get into "spruiking". Yeah,

Pete: Yeah. So, I wonder if this is related....I'm going to share a story that I think is related, that I've found helpful, that I think might also be helpful for our listeners. So in starting a business five or so years ago, I had a lot of trouble (and sometimes still have a lot of trouble) with the idea of, "Is Pete Shepherd, the business? Or is Pete Shepherd, the human who happens to work in the business, or for the business, or is the CEO of the business?" And so, I think like one of my very first iterations of my website was about me, the individual, me, the human, me, the person who is the human periscope, of which I do this, this, this, this and this. And a dear friend of mine, Mary Freer...I'm paraphrasing the story, but I just, this is how I remember it. She also has a business and is a brilliant changemaker here in Australia, and she said something like, "Compassion Revolution," which is the name of her business, "believes in living in a more compassionate world, in particular in health care,"...and I know I'm totally butchering that, sorry, Mary..."but Mary Freer, I mean, sometimes she likes to lie on the couch and watch Netflix." And I don't think she would mind sharing the story, but what she did for me is help like separate the two things. You can be the owner of a business who believes in creating a more compassionate world and an individual who still likes to relax with their husband or wife or partner or friend or dog and watch Netflix. And that where we...or me, I can only speak for myself, I guess. Where I got into trouble, in thinking about this, was when my identity was wrapped up in everything that I did. And so, then it became this like really weird swirl of, "If I post on Instagram that I am going for a swim, is that like in alignment with my business? And is that now self-promotion? And if so, like, what am I trying to promote?" And it became this horrendous swirl. And so for me, this idea that Mary presented me with which I interpret as basically like, you can separate the things that you create, the ideas that you put out there from yourself and your identity. I actually think they can be two separate things. Which I think is what you're sort of saying too, right? Is, if we're sharing or spruiking an idea as opposed to sharing or spruiking ourselves, it feels like it might feel better for the individual, but also land better and connect with people that we want to connect with.

Jen: Yeah. You know, I have a very interesting and complicated relationship with this. As, my business, when I started it, I didn't really know it was going to turn into anything. So at the time, I just copied what I saw other people calling their studios, which was their name followed by the word "Studio". So, it was "Jen Waldman Studio". And I was just doing one class a week for eight people at that point, it really didn't matter. Well, as this thing has grown and grown and grown and grown and grown, it has been a very interesting experience to be Jen Waldman when my business is Jen Waldman Studio, and I'm just a person.

Pete: Right.

Jen: So one of the things I've had to really come to terms with over the last couple years, is that the version of me that's associated with the studio is only one part of me, but it is the part of me that advocates for the change I believe is possible in the industry in which I work. And so, I've gotten a lot more comfortable with knowing I'm kind of like the spokesperson.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: And at the same time, I've been pushing us more and more and more to call it "JWS" and not "Jen Waldman Studio", because it really is about the community of people who are there.

Pete: Totally. I hear, in that, "You're the spokesperson for the community, and the ideas that that represents," not, "You're a spokesperson for yourself."

Jen: Correct. In fact...it's so funny. Since I've been in therapy, I've learned so much about myself. And one of the things that I've learned about myself is, I really do not like the spotlight on me. I like the spotlight on my ideas. I like the spotlight on my clients. But I really don't like the spotlight on me. And it's just a...it's an interesting dance. So, I imagine that other people who do work that has something that is public facing about it struggle with this as well.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: And to your point about social media, what I have found interesting and I know I've mentioned this on a previous episode before, Christy Coco, who does my social media...and P.S., if some of you are now heading over to my Instagram and you're like, "Jen, you've fallen completely silent on social media for the last couple of months," ...yes, I know. Someday we'll explain why, and someday we'll be back. But she says that anytime I post something personal, that isn't manicured or really well put together or well thought out, when it's something that's just like a real moment in time in life, it gets so much engagement, because people can relate to posts like that. You know, if you are seeking to share ideas, and promote ideas, and share a vision, and share a cause, share a purpose, she's really reminded me that it's important that you stay as human about it as possible, as real, as approachable, as unpolished in certain moments as you can be. Show people who you really are, so they can relate to the ideas that you're sharing.

Pete: Right. Yeah, there's a level of humility and vulnerability that we like to connect with. It's sort of like, I think about Brene Brown in this way a lot. Where, she has an incredible amount of research, and data, and findings, and assertions that she's made based on those, or findings that she's made based on those. And she talks about, "Here is the idea, based on the data," or, "Here is what the data suggests. And I, Brene Brown, really struggle with this too. And I agree that this data sucks, that it suggests that, you know, vulnerability leads to connection. And I, like you, think vulnerability is really hard." So it's not like, "Here I am, Brene Brown, promoting myself." It's like, "Here I am, Brene Brown, promoting an idea. And here's me, the messy human, and how I relate to that." So, I totally hear what you're saying with the social media.

Jen: Okay, so here's something else I wanted to share around this idea of self-promotion or spruiking. A couple years ago...actually, it was during the pandemic so it was less than two years ago. But you know, in pandemic time, four hundred years ago.

Pete: Seven hundred lifetimes.

Jen: At the studio, for our Book of the Month, we read Brag Better by Meredith Fineman. And in that book...which I recommend to people. I think, you know, it has a lot of interesting ideas about how to show up and share your work in meaningful ways. One of the things she talks about is essentially keeping a list of what she calls your "brags", but I would call them, you know, "things you have accomplished". And I did this exercise, and I created my catalogue of accomplishments for what we had done as a studio community over the course of the pandemic. And it was very rewarding to do that, to be able to look at it, and to share it with our team and be like, "Look what we did." But then...I feel like we must have spoken about this on an episode before...someone from within our JWS community, Nathaniel Sullivan (who is so brilliant, absolutely brilliant),-

Pete: Yes, love Nathaniel.

Jen: -he did his own version of an accomplishment catalogue, where after each accomplishment, he wrote, "so that," and, "[fill in the blank]." So for example, "Last year, we gave out almost $30,000 in scholarships, so that we could identify people who are changemakers in the industry, shine a spotlight on them and say, 'We believe in you.'" We didn't do it for us, we did it for whatever our purpose or goal was. And I just found that to be an incredibly powerful reframe. So for the listener who is feeling wonky about sharing their work, you're sharing your work, so that [fill in the blank]. You're sharing the blog post, so that [fill in the blank].

Pete: Hmm. Yeah, I like that. I like that, sharing the intention.

Jen: Mmm-hmm.

Pete: Yeah. Yeah, that feels helpful. I feel like you mentioned therapy earlier...I feel like this is therapy for me.

Jen: So here's another interesting angle to look at this from, because I've dealt with this with a number of my clients who are feeling pretty icky about self-promotion. And very often it has something to do with social media, that's usually where the ick factor comes in. So then, we get into a conversation about the audience they're hoping to reach. And then, I ask them if that audience is actually following them on social media. And there's sort of an uncomfortable moment, where they're like, "I actually don't think so," or, "I don't know." And so, the discomfort comes from the fact that they're sharing work that is intended for a specific audience with their friends and family, instead of the audience itself. So that's another thing to just consider, is the audience that you're looking to reach actually hanging out where you're sharing your work.

Pete:100%, I so resonate with this. I guess it's part of, "Who's it for," and I guess it's part of sharing in a way that leads with empathy, which is like, "If I'm clear on who this idea is for that I want to share, can I put myself in their shoes and think, 'Where do they spend time,' and then show up there with said idea?" So you know, I think there's like clear delineations, if we stick on the social media example. There's clear audiences that spend time on LinkedIn, for example, that are mostly professional corporate audiences. Rather than if you're a photographer and sharing photography work with other photographers, then it probably does make sense to share things on Instagram. Like there's a really, even in the social media world, there are different audiences that hang out on different platforms. And then you can even go beyond there, which is, you know, sometimes for me, I recognize that if I'm coaching an executive team or a CEO, they don't really have time to be scrolling Instagram or LinkedIn or even Twitter, like none of them.

Jen: Right.

Pete: And so it's actually the inbox, is where you need to show up, or the inbox of the assistant, or getting referred to by another CEO who's a friend of theirs. Like, there's all of these other channels that you need to consider. And yeah, I find that helpful to think about for my audience. And I think, built into that is...I once saw this post, ironically on social media, which I really liked. It was in the health and fitness space, there was a strength coach that I follow that said something like, "The best coach in the world probably has less than a thousand Instagram followers." And that really resonated with me for many, many reasons. But just that, if you're the best strength coach in the world, you're probably not spending your time scrolling social media because you're reaching the people that you need to reach in other ways.

Jen: Ooh, I feel...I'm having a strong visceral reaction to everything you just said, in the best way possible. It is so much easier (meaning less of an on the hook, heavy emotional lift) to post something on Instagram, not knowing who the heck is going to see it, and then just wishing that the right person would see it. Or even taking it a step farther, blaming the person who you wish would see it for not seeing it.

Pete: Or blaming the platform.

Jen: Right. Versus going directly to the one person who you made this particular thing, email, blog post, offer for and saying, "I made this for you." That is so much scarier-

Pete: Totally.

Jen: -than sending it out into, you know, the cyberverse vacuum of hell.

Pete: Right. I think getting annoyed when nothing happens, or that the algorithm demotes your post or whatever, and you're like, "But I'm doing the work. I'm sharing my work. I'm like, you know, self-promoting,"...but yeah, it always goes back to, "Who's it for?"

Jen: "Who's it for? What's it for?" It's like the golden rule of human interaction.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: Just answer those questions.

Pete: Yeah. Well, and I think the other thing embedded in what you just shared, in what we're talking about is the reality of, you know, what Seth Godin calls the "minimum viable audience". The "minimum" word I find really interesting, and same as the "viable" word I find really interesting. Because I feel like for a lot of us, the amount of people that we might need to see the idea that we want them to see is actually like tiny. Like you said, it might be one person. It might be five people. Maybe it's ten people. And yet, we spend a lot of time thinking about getting thousands of followers on all these various platforms. But maybe that's not the right way to approach it. You know, I think about...there's an example I'm sure I've shared on this podcast before, that someone shared to me when we were starting a podcast, you and I. And I was thinking about how we need to get, you know, as many people listening as possible. And the example that was shared was, "If you have a podcast that was only on the topic of AI, would you prefer to have a hundred thousand general members of society listening, or the five most influential people in AI listening?"

Jen: Right.

Pete: And I imagine you would probably want the five most influential people.

Jen: That's right.

Pete: Right. So the five is better than the hundred thousand in that context, because of the ideas that you're sharing and the ways that you want to create change.

Jen: Mmm. Yes, yes, yes. Wow. I feel like we could do a whole series on this.

Pete: That's a lot of showers.

Jen: I imagine that if we go back through the almost two hundred episodes we've done so far, we've, kind of by accident, already done a series. Like, we have quite a few episodes that have elements of spruiking, self-promotion, etc. But I really do encourage you, listeners, if you haven't heard the Spruik episode, go back and take a listen to it because it kind of sets up the foundation for the whole conversation that we just had.

Pete: Yeah. It also involves Jen trying to make sense of this Australian word "spruik", which is just kind of fun to listen to.

Jen: And I feel like we just had a meta example of self-promotion. Because I just promoted another episode of our podcast, but listeners, I did it for you. Not for us. It was so that you could better understand the idea that we're spruiking, which is to spruik your ideas.

Pete: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.