The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 215 - Pre-Planned

Transcript:

Jen: Hi, Peter.

Pete: Hey, Jennifer.

Jen: I wanted to talk to you today about a distinction I find myself having many conversations about in the most recent weeks, and that is the difference between being prepared and being pre-planned.

Pete: What is this? Are we inventing words again?

Jen: We are.

Pete: I love this. I love when we invent words. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Pete: Okay, Jen.

Jen: I mean, it's just a clever pronunciation. It's really pre-planned, you know.

Pete: Pre-planned and prepared, I like it. I like it.

Jen: But it's easier to talk about it by calling it pre-planned, because then I get a laugh and then it takes the edge off.

Pete: It's so true.

Jen: So, here's the deal. For some context, my clients, for the last two and a half plus years, have been pursuing artistic opportunities by sending in pre-recorded work. So they do the work in their home, it's exactly how they plan it. They do the setup, they decide how it's going to look, they do the lighting, they do the editing, and then they send it off.

Pete: That's self-tape...is what we call that?

Jen: That's called a self-tape, yes.

Pete: Look at this, I'm learning.

Jen: And self-tapes are very pre-planned. Well, we are making the transition back to in-person auditions where pre-planned doesn't work because there are live human beings in the room, in many cases eager to collaborate. So at that moment, the plan needs to go out the window, and instead, what the person must be is prepared. They must know the material inside and out, and be ready to take adjustments and have an inspiration volley. But for so many of my clients, they just are out of practice in that regard, so we're spending a lot of time on my impulse training exercises to like try to get them back into their own ability to act quickly.

Pete: Yeah. It strikes me as one of the big differences is a lack of control versus a very controlled environment.

Jen: Correct.

Pete: You know, like a very pre-planned environment...it's such a fun word to say. Try it at home, if you're listening. The pre-planned environment feels like, yeah, it's very within your control. I mean, you even mentioned, they are able to...in your example of doing a self-tape, they're able to do the editing. So like, it is so controlled and contained, and so the nervousness or the perhaps the uneasiness comes with these factors that are outside my control. Like you mentioned, there's other humans in the room. What if they cough? What if they sneeze? What if they ask me a question that I'm not ready for? What do I do about that? It feels like an exercise in letting go of control a little bit, which is a hard thing to do as a human because we love control.

Jen: Yes, we do. And I see this pinging off of so many other things, like pretty much any human interaction. If you come into any conversation pre-planned, let me just tell you, it's not going that way. Instead, coming into a conversation prepared. Or even something like a scripted keynote, someone in the audience starts coughing, your mic cuts out, you get a laugh where you didn't expect it, should you go with the pre-plan because that's what you planned to do? Or instead, can you be so prepared that you trust yourself to respond in the moment?

Pete: Yeah. I feel like the trust yourself thing is a really important part of this.

Jen: Yeah, it is.

Pete: The scripted keynote is such a good example. It's why...I mean, everyone has their own style. I think my style personally leans more on like almost the improv element, which is I guess more around, I trust that I'm prepared to speak on the topic that I know I'm going to speak about, I have a structure in my head in terms of, "I'm going to make this point, and I'm going to probably tell this story," but in, I mean, I call my keynotes "interactive keynotes" because I pause and ask for input at various times throughout it, and of course, you have no idea what someone's going to say.

Jen: It's what keeps it fun.

Pete: It keeps it interesting for me, exactly. That's why I love it. And so to be pre-planned, like you said, wouldn't work because then you're going to probably try and fit what someone said back into your plan as opposed to respond to it in the moment, i.e. what I think of as like more like an improv approach. So yeah, there's a structure, there's points I want to make, and there's like an openness and a trust of oneself to figure it out in a prepared fashion.

Jen: It's making me want to talk about slack (not the app, but just the concept of leaving slack). So I am, right now, preparing to go into a rehearsal process, and I have a pretty tight rehearsal schedule. So yesterday, I sat down with the script and went to the whiteboard and mapped out all of the rehearsal days within an inch of their life.

Pete: Of course you did.

Jen: And then, I took a step back and I was like, "There's no way this is going to plan. This is pre-planned. Like, this is a recipe for disaster." So what I did was, I moved everything around to put slack in every single rehearsal day. So if I have a six hour rehearsal day, for example, I have planned four and a half hours of it and left myself ninety minutes to pick up the slack, or review things, or maybe we'll even get ahead and have extra slack tomorrow. But going in and trying to get down to the second with these page numbers, well, that was just not a great idea. But I had to start there, in order to see that I needed to take a step back.

Pete: I totally agree. Sometimes you do need to start there with a pre-plan, to then feel prepared, to then trust yourself to show up and create slack.

Jen: That's right.

Pete: Hmm. So, I think this is related...maybe it's tangential. But the image you conjured up for me when going back into a physical room with other humans in the room, feeling nervous because you don't know how they're going to respond, it just reminds me a lot of what a lot of organizations are still grappling with and employees have said organizations are grappling with as they spend a little more time in the office, like whether that's one day a week, two days a week, some are going back more than that. But there's a term that Brene Brown has been using called The Great Awkward, and I think it's so relevant to this because it's like, "Let's lean into the humaness of this and acknowledge it's going to be awkward when we all see each other again in-person for the first time, or it's going to be awkward when we have a meeting in the same room that we used to have a meeting in, in the room where it happened...", see what I did there?

Jen: Thank you for the Hamilton reference, I appreciate it.

Pete: I finally saw Hamilton and I was dying to get that reference in. But the acknowledgement it's going to be awkward, I think is really important...because it is. Because there's other humans in the room and we haven't done this for a while. And the pre-plan version gets rid of the awkward. Like if there's a slight hint of you feeling or looking or acting in a way that you would deem to be awkward when you watch back a self-tape, I imagine you're editing that out, right? You're like, "Oh, I don't want to look or sound or feel awkward. I want to feel confident and like composed and pre-planned." And so, you're almost editing out the awkward. Whereas now, it's sort of like, "The awkward is going to be there. How might you accept that?" And then like, I just love this idea like you've been talking about, trust yourself to navigate the great awkward.

Jen: Yeah. Okay, funny story. One of my clients did one of her self-tapes...oh, this cracks me up so much...and she watched it back and she was like, "I sound great. And I like what my face is doing. But my body looks crazy. I'm just going to tighten the shot so much that the only thing you can see is my face." And that's what she sent in. And honestly, I watched both versions back and it was a great choice on her part, because she was right. She was doing some things physically that didn't quite make sense but she sounded great, so she was able to edit it. Now in the room, not so easy. "Don't look at anything below my shoulders, please."

Pete: "Please only look from the shoulders up." Yeah.

Jen: It's also making me think about, something I've been saying to my clients is that this self-tape version of their audition, it doesn't have to be adjustable. Like, you can do whatever you want and no one's going to be able to ask you to do it differently in real time, like any notes would be asynchronous and then you have time to process. And part of what is lost there is the ability to volley with someone. And today I was having lunch with an agent friend of mine, and together we were sort of lamenting how this is also true on the other side of the table. She was basically saying, you know, "In the old days, someone would pick up the phone and call me about a client, and then I would be able to talk about that client, and they would ask me questions and then I'd be able to offer ideas. Or maybe I would think of someone else in the moment and say, 'Oh, why don't we talk about this person?'" And she said, "And now, because everything is via email, there's no conversation. There's no human element to this anymore."

Pete: Interesting.

Jen: Which I just, I find so interesting. And wouldn't it be shocking if someone picked up the phone and called? And then, would you be prepared-

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: -to have that conversation? Because an email is basically a pre-plan.

Pete: Right.

Jen: Well, hopefully you've reread it before you hit send.

Pete: Yeah. It's wild how a phone call now could be a differentiator. And that could be a differentiator in a good way.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: But also, it could be like, "Why the hell is this person calling me? I don't do phone calls." It could be a differentiator in a bad way, yeah.

Jen: I just want to say for the record, for me, it's a good way. I would so rather people called me than email me. Well, you know my relationship with email.

Pete: It's a whole thing.

Jen: And maybe this is one of the reasons I hate it.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: Because it's so pre-planned.

Pete: Yeah. Yeah. You know, as we're talking, I'm reminded of that quote...I feel like it gets misquoted, misattributed all the time so I want to actually dig up the exact origin. I'll put it in the Box O' Goodies. But I'm pretty sure it's, "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." And I think it's related to, I think it's a famous boxer or a famous boxer's coach, that was like, "Yep, let's develop a plan. Let's get in the ring. Let's go out there with our plan, and recognize you're going to get punched in the mouth and your whole plan is going to go out the window. And then, you just trust in your preparation."

Jen: Right.

Pete: "And just, you're in a boxing match. You're just fighting." Like, you know? So, it's like...I just, yeah, I think that's a useful metaphor.

Jen: Well, truly, any sport is a great metaphor for what we're talking about. Right now, it's the postseason in baseball so the highest ranked teams are competing against each other to ultimately end up in the World Series. And these batters study these pitchers, and study their pitching strategy, and study how the ball moves, and study like in what order they typically throw their pitches and how far off the plate and how inside on the plate, and you know, all of that. But in the moment, if you're expecting that the pitcher is going to throw a slider, and you're ready to swing for a slider, and they throw you a fastball, your plan doesn't work, my friend.

Pete: Right. Swing, just swing.

Jen: Strike. Right? So I think sports is such a great way to think about this, that you take batting practice every day so that you can react when a ball is thrown at you-

Pete: Yeah, love that example.

Jen: -with like strategic impulse, as opposed to a wild impulse. Like, you take all the batting practice so that you can be impulsive but within reason, impulsive within constraints.

Pete: Yeah, impulsive within constraints. I love that. There's another quote that often gets misattributed, so again, I'll do the same thing. I'll double check where this comes from, which this is reminding me of, which is like, "We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our preparation."

Jen: Yeah, that is James Clear from Atomic Habits.

Pete: Is it? Yeah, "...fall to the level of our preparation? Or fall to the level of our plan? Or fall to the level of our habits?"

Jen: I think it's "...fall to the level of our habits," yeah.

Pete: Yeah, which I think is also apt here. Because, you know, in many ways, the pre-plan version is us trying to create our expectations that are higher. Like, we can create higher expectations with a pre-planned version because we get to edit out the mistakes.

Jen: Right.

Pete: We get to edit out the awkward and the imperfections, and we go, "Look at this high lofty standard that I reach every single time I step onstage or get in a room or whatever." And then in the moment in the room, you don't rise to that because it's awkward, there's humans, there's questions that might get asked, whatever, there's pitches that might get thrown (depending on which metaphor we're using), and then you fall to the level of preparation. Am I prepared to deal with and respond to the things that are happening?

Jen: Yeah. My mom...I'll attribute this quote to my mom, although I'm sure she stole it from someone else...sometimes says, "You plan, God laughs."

Pete: Oh, it's a real quote fest, this episode. I love it.

Jen: Right?

Pete: I love it. So, the thing I'm particularly like...not stuck on but like very focused on, that you've said a few times that I think is the key to all of this is, how might we better trust ourselves and our preparedness? Not our pre-plannedness, but our preparedness. How might we better trust ourselves? I can't get that out of my head.

Jen: I think it is somewhat different for each person. I know for me, as a Questioner, part of what gives me the confidence to trust myself is that I know my shit.

Pete: Yep.

Jen: Like it would be very hard for me to go into an audition, for example, if I didn't know that material like the back of my hand. I could do it upside down, backwards, in a different language, in my sleep, like I know that material so well that I trust I can play. I'm not going to make "wrong" choices, because I understand the world of the play to the extent that I know what the wrong choices are. I'm not going to make them. But I give myself the space and the permission to play within the constraints that I so understand deeply.

Pete: Yeah. Yeah. That makes perfect sense. Yeah, it feels like you need to know yourself in order for you to then trust yourself.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: And I guess what I mean by that is, know what you need to feel comfortable or prepared to deal with the awkward, the unknown, the uncomfortable, so that you can then trust yourself to deal with the awkward, the unknown, the uncomfortable.

Jen: Can I just offer one little idea that's coming to mind, that I've worked on with some clients in the past who are going into important meetings that they have scheduled?

Pete: Please.

Jen: So a client will have a meeting with their agent to talk about how things are going, strategy for the upcoming season, etc. And the client will book some time with me to go over their plan. So they say, "Okay, these are the things I want to say. These are the things I want to ask. These are the things I want to show them. How does that sound?" And I'm like, "That sounds great. Where's room for what your agent wants to talk about?"

Pete: 100%, yes.

Jen: So one of the things that has helped them feel more prepared is to talk at the top of the meeting about what the major bullet points are, to say to the agent, "This is what I'm hoping to talk about today. What are you hoping to talk about today," so that they can prepare themselves for how the conversation might swerve in a different direction than they might have anticipated.

Pete: Nice. Nice. Yeah. I see and I hear so many examples of that in like corporate land, when someone needs to give someone difficult feedback, and they go, "Okay, here's how I'm thinking I'm going to deliver the feedback. I'm going to say this. I'm going to use this example. I'm going to say, 'When you said this, that meant this.' You know, I did the FBI. I'm doing all the different mechanisms for giving and receiving feedback." And I'm kind of like, "Cool, cool, cool. When and how are you going to give the other person permission to speak?"

Jen: Right. Right.

Pete: And like, "What if you lead with that?" Like, this is a Pete approach. I think, I don't think this needs to be universal. My approach in a conversation like that is, start by asking them like, "What do you think we're here for? Or what do you want to get out of today?" And let them, you know, almost dictate what they need out of this conversation, knowing full well that in the background, I have prepared and I can respond to the various things that they bring up, but I want to let them lead. Now, that is very specific to me in certain situations, but I just think, you know, even the example you shared of like giving the other person the chance to dictate what they might want to get out of this meeting is really important too.

Jen: Yeah. It goes back to that question that we bring up a lot here, which is, what does success look like? Well, it might look like something different for each person. So, getting that information upfront can help you trust.

Pete: I guess, in that sense, you've got your preparedness and maybe your pre-plan that you originally had, but there's an acknowledgment that so did they.

Jen: Right.

Pete: You know? Like, maybe they've pre-planned and prepared for this conversation in their own way. So how do you make room for both?

Jen: Yeah, so many applications of prepared versus pre-planned, which is great because we both really enjoy saying those words.

Pete: We have a thing with words that start with "P", I think.

Jen: We really do, so many "P" episodes, Pete.

Pete: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.