The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 216 - The Hook

Transcript:

Pete: Hey, Jen.

Jen: Hey Pete.

Pete: So I was at a dinner the other night, and in the room with some very accomplished, successful, you might say famous people. And I know that they were all of those things because when they were all introduced, they had a really compelling hook. And in that moment, I realized I do not. I do not. I'm hookless, and I need you to help me unpack this and what it means, and maybe we can have some fun.

Jen: This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Jen: You're hookless?

Pete: I'm hookless.

Jen: That's very funny. So, what do you actually mean? What do you mean by, they had a hook?

Pete: Yeah. So at this dinner I was at, there was about I guess forty people in the room, a bunch of, like I mentioned, accomplished and successful speakers, a bunch of folks in the kind of, I would say, like the speaking agent world. And it was a dinner to basically share ideas and thoughts around how we might work together as...well, how everyone else might work together as thought leaders and speakers, and then like also there's this tall guy in the corner, what's he doing here? The reason I say hook and the reason I know they're accomplished and successful, well, firstly, a few of them I like recognized their faces and I know them as Australian personalities or sports stars, so I was very aware of who they are. But the emcee did this thing at the start where he asked twenty people in the room (including me) to stand up, and he went around and said, "In this room standing up, we have Australians of the Year, we have people who've raised millions of dollars for charity, we have five CEOs of ASX companies (Australian Stock Exchange, for those wondering), we have a Paralympian, we have an Olympian. It was like compelling hook after compelling hook after compelling hook as a way to describe that person. And this whole time, I was thinking to myself, "How the hell are they going to describe me?" And I mean, I was having a big impostor moment of like, "I have absolutely no right to be in this room." And it was like, "And we have the coach of leaders," or, "a leadership coach," something like so wah-wah-waaah. And I was like, "Okay, alright, I am hookless."

Jen: Oh my god.

Pete: Maybe Jen can help me come up with a hook.

Jen: Oh my god, I am in pain from laughing so hard. But I also am in pain because I can imagine being you in that moment. And like, "No! Please don't just generically say, 'And we have a coach.' Like no, please don't." Okay, so the thing that I'm realizing is so potent and important about you sharing this story is for so many of us (myself included in this), coming up with a succinct and catchy way to describe what we do and what we've been successful at can feel so, well, first of all daunting, but also it can kind of feel gross. It can feel like, "Oh, I'm like trying to sell myself. Like, I'm more than a tagline."

Pete: Right.

Jen: But what's interesting is, your story illuminates that it's not for you and it's not about you. It's for the people who might interact with you, the people who might want to meet you. If they can't, in a nutshell, understand who you are, what you've done, then it's not really that curiosity piquing. But to say...like when I think about you, I go, "Okay, Pete has coached some of the most influential CEOs in the most influential companies on the planet. I also know that the volume of people you have coached is in the five digits."

Pete: Hmm. Yeah. Which is maybe where we'll get to, it sent me down a rabbit hole of like, "How do I come up with my hook," which is like a whole process.

Jen: Yes. Have you come up with one?

Pete: I have some ideas. And similar to what you just said, I appreciate those kind words, it's sort of down that path of I went through a process of quantifying, "How many people have I had the privilege of coaching and working with and supporting? How many organizations?" I started this spreadsheet and started trying to quantify it and got a bit overwhelmed, but like I have started that process because I think that could be a hook.

Jen: Can I ask you a question about your own experience being an audience member, as well as a person being introduced?

Pete: Oh, yeah.

Jen: When you hear someone else introduced as you know, "Three-time Olympic gold medalist," or,"Activist who has raised $10 million for such and such a cause," did you have any negative feelings about that person, like, "Whoa, why are they, you know, talking about their accomplishments that way?" Like, did you have any of the feelings that you fear someone might have about you?

Pete: Of course not. No. Like, of course not. I found that compelling. I was like, "Oh my gosh. I want to talk to that person, what a cool experience. Or isn't that wild they've raised that much money for charity? I want to go and like find out more." So to your point earlier, it piqued my curiosity. It didn't make me feel any negative emotions towards that person. What's also fascinating, I'm realizing in this moment, is, often there's this quirk with writing a bio or coming up with a hook, that you and I know, which is you have to often do it yourself. Like, you have to write the hook to then give to people to say it.

Jen: That's right.

Pete: And so even though I know that intellectually, that probably all those people in that room gave the hook, or at some point in time have communicated, "This is the hook. This is how to describe me," I didn't think that when I heard it. I heard, "Whoa. Someone else is identifying this as their thing and that's how they're being introduced." And yet, when I think about it for myself, I'm like, "Oh my god, I wrote that myself. I hate that so much. I hate myself." But you never think that when you're an audience member. Isn't that wild?

Jen: Right. Yeah, that is wild. I feel like this episode is already a total tool of permission for me so I imagine it is a tool of permission for a lot of people listening, to be like, "Wow. It is generous to quantify one's accomplishments in a succinct way, so that other people might understand and have quick context...quick, specific context."

Pete: Yes. And the thing I've been thinking a lot about is what that hook looks like or what that summary sounds like might be different in different contexts. So I think I've shared it once upon a time on this podcast, someone introduced me as, "Director and Founder of Human Periscope," which is true, but I'd not necessarily ever said that. Because I have a company that's called Human Periscope, I started it, so yeah, that is true. But prior to that, I'd probably introduced myself more of like, "Oh, he's a leadership development coach or executive coach. And also, there's a company that like...," that was like the afterthought. And so when I heard that, I realized in certain contexts, being the founder or the director of a business is actually a really useful hook for people to go, "Okay, bang, he runs a business. I need to talk to him about running a business." And so, that might be really relevant in certain circumstances. But I think in other contexts, that is less helpful, which is kind of part of the aha moment I got to in this workshop. Because if they said, "Founder and Director of Human Periscope," in that room, everyone's like, "What the hell is that? I've never heard of him. That means nothing to me."

Jen: Right. This is funny to me because I have personally experienced someone going to my website to like lift part of my bio and use it as an introduction, and to introduce me in a completely irrelevant way to people I'm going to speak to. So it's making me realize, I probably need to have a hook that is all-encompassing, and then have sub-hooks for different topics.

Pete: I like that that idea of sub-hooks, yeah. I mean, there's so many, right? Like, you have such a wide array of experiences. Like in our context, if we were at a podcast forum for whatever reason, it would be helpful for someone to say, "Hosts of The Long and The Short Of It podcast." In many contexts, that doesn't come up for my hook. Like there are certain people that are like, "Oh, I don't even know this guy has a podcast." Or if you were at a blogging convention, you might have your hook be, "He writes a weekly blog on NoodleScratches.com." Now, most people don't even know that's a thing in the other bios or the other hooks that I have, whether I'm doing a keynote or leading a workshop. So I think you're right, there's like a sub-hook for many different parts of our life.

Jen: Yeah. I'm wondering, is the hook...is the macro-hook, the big hook, the thing from which all of your other things grow? Like for me, it is definitely my Broadway experience. That is the hook because everything else that I do gets filtered through the lens of my Broadway background. Yes, I am a podcaster, but it doesn't work in the other direction. It's not that my podcasting is informing the work that I'm doing with my Broadway clients, but the work that I'm doing with my Broadway clients is informing my podcasting.

Pete: Yeah, I like that. And I would agree, it's funny, like I feel like when I describe you to friends, if they're like, "Oh, you've got a podcast? Who's your co-host," I'd be like, "Oh, Jen Waldman. She like does a bunch of work on Broadway. She's a former Broadway star, like supports and coaches the amazing people that you see onstage.

Jen: A former Broadway star, I don't know. I don't know that that's my hook. I did some Broadway shows.

Pete: Well, that's what I run with though. But my point is the Broadway element, you're right, that's like your macro-hook.

Jen: Yes, coach to Broadway stars. That feels true.

Pete: That's a great hook: Coach to Broadway stars. I want to talk to that person.

Jen: So, tell me about the rabbit hole you were mentioning earlier.

Pete: Okay.

Jen: Meet me at the bottom of the rabbit hole.

Pete: I got home from this event. Tracey was like, "How was it," and I'm like, "I feel very lucky to have been in that room. I learned a lot of things. I got to talk to some amazing people. And my biggest learning was," and I shared, "everyone had this beautiful hook. Everyone had this great takeaway. And then, there was this wah-wah-waaah, 'Here's Pete, the leader of coaches or whatever.'" And she laughed and laughed. And then we were like, I said, "I need to figure out what my hook is." And I guess I just started doing a bunch of scribbling and whiteboarding. I can't even put my finger on the genesis of the aha moment, but at some point I got some clarity, which is what you mentioned earlier around, I think, the scope in terms of the amount of organizations, and the scope in terms of the amount of people that I've coached and supported, both executives and CEOs right through to like just leaders and middle managers. I think that scope is actually quite compelling and quite unique. And so I thought, "I wonder if I tried to quantify that, what would that look like?" I got out a spreadsheet...I just looked at the last five years. I was like, "What have I done in the last five years? You know, like what are all the projects that I've done? Who are all the individuals I've coached? What are the group coaching programs I've run? What are the Big Ideas Labs that you and I have run. Like, all of the people that I have had some sort of coaching relationship with, how many are there?" And turns out, there's over ten thousand. Which is like, I don't even believe that number. When I saw it, I was like, "I don't believe that," even though I quantified it, because it's so many people. So many people. So I was like, "Okay, that feels compelling."

Jen: That is hook-y.

Pete: It feels a little hook-y. Like, "He has coached over ten thousand leaders and executives around the world." I was like, "That feels kind of hook-y.' And then I looked at, also, the number of organizations, which also felt like a little bit of a silly number. I think it's like over two hundred organizations, or over one hundred and fifty organizations...there's a lot of organizations.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: So I started to play with that, you know, "Coached and supported over ten thousand leaders from over one hundred and fifty companies around the world." And then I could have, "Such as...," you know, and then like examples of clients. And so that's kind of the bottom of the rabbit hole, the macro hook I guess I've been toying with in the last week or so. What do you think? Is it a hook?

Jen: I think it's very impressive.

Pete: Oh, thank you.

Jen: It's very hook-y.

Pete: Hook-y.

Jen: Well, because, "Coach to leaders," is true and, "Coach to ten thousand plus leaders in one hundred and fifty plus companies across the globe," is also true.

Pete: Right. Yeah.

Jen: But one truth is just better than the other.

Pete: It sounds way better, yeah. It really does. It really does. And then so, to your point of like the macro hook and the sub-hooks, I think that fits. Right? Like, I think everything that I do, you know, whether it's I guess our podcast or like even a keynote, for me, is like really where I'm sharing learnings based on the macro hook of, "I've coached over ten thousand people. Here are some things, the patterns that I've noticed, some themes that I see." We use our clients all the time on this podcast, as like, "My client said this, and I said that," so that feels like it fits that idea of the macro hook. It still feels a little cringe-worthy for me to say...I feel like I'm still shriveling up while we're talking.

Jen: Well, it is hard to pat yourself on the back sometimes. But you really have done that.

Pete: Hmm. Yeah.

Jen: For some reason, the visual shape of this hook idea, for me, is coming to mind in the shape of a Christmas tree. And I don't know if that is helpful or not, but I'm like seeing the macro hook as the star on top of the tree. And then, you know how like when you draw a Christmas tree, it's like the branch goes out, the branch goes in, the branch goes out, the branch goes in. And I'm seeing that as like, "Okay. So those are my sub-hooks, but they all point up to the star at the top of the tree."

Pete: I like that visual. I imagined a fishing hook and I was trying to work out where the sub-hooks come in, but it didn't work so your visual is much better. So much better, the Christmas tree.

Jen: Okay, just another angle on this...I have clients who have to create what we call a "self-tape", which is like an audition that they send in to see if they're going to get an in-the-room audition. And I have clients send me multiple takes of the same thing and say, "Can you take a look at this and let me know which one I should send?" And my dirty little secret is, I only watch the first twenty seconds of each of the tapes. Because my thought is, "If you haven't hooked me in the first twenty seconds, it doesn't matter if the end of the tape is any good."

Pete: Right.

Jen: Similarly, when we teach the Big Ideas Lab we talk about using...we don't call it a hook in that context, but conceptually, it's the same thing. Put the hook at the beginning, so that people have a sense of what you're promising them and that their curiosity can be piqued, and then take them on the journey. So I think, you know, we're talking about this in the context of personal introductions and bios. But the concept of the hook, just hooking people right out of the gate with specific and concise ideas, is so universally applicable.

Pete: Yeah. And as the audience member or the receiver of the hook, it helps you...it's almost like a signal or a pattern matching thing that we humans do, where you're like, "Okay, boom, I can now put you in the pattern of, okay, coach to Broadway stars. I get that. I understand that. Now, I want to learn more."

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: Or, you know, if someone's like, "I'm a TEDx speaker," it's, "Okay, boom, you're a TEDx speaker. I can put you in that bucket. Now, I want to know more." Like, it's a very helpful shorthand to just clarify who someone is or what they're about.

Jen: TEDx speaker, by the way, is one of your sub-hooks.

Pete: It is a sub-hook. ...I feel like I should write this down.

Jen: I know. Maybe we're like hanging ornaments from this Christmas tree? I don't know.

Pete: I like it. So the other thing that I take away from this conversation is, you know, I started by saying I'm hookless. And I think for many people listening too, there might be a similar moment where you've been in a room, you felt like an imposter, and you're like, "I have nothing. I have no hook." I think what's fascinating is everyone has a hook, it's just figuring out what it is or articulating it in a way that makes sense. That's the hard part, I think. It's like there's a unique hook to everyone, I think.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: You know? No one knows what you know. No one can do what you do. No one behaves the way that you behave, or has done the things that you've done. And so it's just like, how do we figure out and articulate that in a way that is compelling?

Jen: Well, I think you've got to be willing to jump down the rabbit hole, spend a little time actually quantifying your accomplishments. Didn't we do an episode...? Am I crazy? Did we do an episode called Quantifying Accomplishments?

Pete: I don't think we've done an episode called Quantifying Accomplishments.

Jen: Oh my gosh, maybe I've written a blog post about it. I'm quickly doing a search.

Pete: But like, yeah, I think an audit of...like, that's what I did. I literally went through a bit of an audit of the last five years, "Who were the clients I've worked with? How many people did I support within those clients?" And I created a spreadsheet that helped me get clear on what that is. I think it's an exercise worth doing.

Jen: Okay, I found it. We did an episode, Episode 133, called Accomplishments. And in it, we talk about collecting accomplishments. Not quantifying, but collecting.

Pete: Love it.

Jen: I'm going to drop that in the Box O' Goodies for anyone who might want to listen.

Pete: Apparently I have forgotten what happened eighty-odd episodes ago.

Jen: Wow, Pete, this is a real eye-opener. So I am going to offer us both a challenge, and you'll let me know if you want to take it. One of the places a person could use a hook would be in an Instagram bio or in a LinkedIn bio.

Pete: ...on your website.

Jen: Yeah, or website. Would you be willing to participate in this challenge? We'll both write our hooks and publish them publicly on some platform, could be Instagram, could be your website. And we'll each drop a link in the Box O' Goodies to where we published said hook.

Pete: You got yourself a deal. We will build our Christmas tree, and we will publish the Christmas tree for all to see in the Box O' Goodies.

Jen: Oh my gosh, I love it. So listeners, if you're like, "Oh my goodness, I need to see this. How do I get a Box O' Goodies," go to thelongandtheshortpodcast.com and subscribe. We also have the archive of all of the Goodie Boxes that have ever existed on our website.

Pete: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.