The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 232 - Creativity Noodles

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: Hello, Jen.

Jen: I conducted an experiment on Instagram.

Pete: Whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Jen: I know. And because of the results of the experiment, I've got my boiling water and I'm about to put some very hard noodles and try to cook them with you.

Pete: Live noodling, I love it. This is my favorite thing.

Jen: Yeah, live noodling on creativity.

Pete: Creativity noodles, delicious. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Jen: So I'm working on a new keynote, which I think is going to become a workshop about how we can get unstuck when we're looking for creative ideas. And it's funny, so much of what I've been writing and building has come to me so easily but the hardest part is trying to name what is creativity without getting all clinical about it and being like, "Well, the scientists say..."

Pete: "Webster says..."

Jen: Right, right. So I was like, "I'm taking to Instagram. And I'm going to ask Instagram, 'What is creativity?'" And I got so many responses, and they were so interesting.

Pete: So, you asked the followers you have on Instagram...not, you asked Instagram.

Jen: Yes, I asked my followers on Instagram,...

Pete: I love it.

Jen: ...what is creativity? And then the next day, I was like, "I wonder if I'm going to get different kinds of answers if I ask a different question." So the next day, I asked, "How do you know if someone is creative?" And the two sets of answers were so very different, and I'm really interested in trying to figure out how to connect them to each other. So, I thought I would share that with you today.

Pete: Please, I would love to hear it. By the way, I feel like your select group of followers could not be better placed to answer those two questions.

Jen: Right?

Pete: Like, what an incredible sample of people that you have to answer this question. Some of the most creative people that I've had the pleasure of meeting, and I'm sure you too, and many that I don't even know, through your Instagram. Alright, I'm excited.

Jen: Yeah. So, I'm just going to read out some of the answers to, "What is creativity?" And I feel like I should preface this with saying I agree with 100% of these answers. I think they're all correct. Okay, so here we go. "The abundance to freely express." "Opening your mind to possibilities." "The ability to streamline one's imagination." "Seeking a new way to get from A to B." "Personal expression. "Problem solving." "Finding the rhyme between two disparate things." "Connecting the dots to make something new." "Making something out of nothing." "The practice of and ability to tap into ideas and thoughts to alchemize into something new." "Thinking outside the box." "Acting on inspiration." "Wild free thinking."

Pete: Mmm.

Jen: So, you hear the themes that are running through these.

Pete: Yeah. I mean, I hear some themes. And one of the things I wrote down which I like, in hearing all of these and hearing you say you agree with them all, is like there's no right answer. I agree with all these too. You know? Like, there's so many different ways to say sort of some version of the same thing.

Jen: Yeah. And I mean, I'll give a little spoiler alert about some of the things I'm talking about in my new keynote, but one of them is that I think creativity requires context to understand it. Because what it looks like to be creative inside a brainstorming session is totally different than what it looks like to be creative when you're trying to solve a problem within your family or when you're trying to be creative in coming up with a recipe in the kitchen. So, the context actually defines what creative is in that moment.

Pete: Yeah, I really like that. Context defines creativity, yes. Okay. I'm on board. What about the other question?

Jen: Okay, so this is really interesting to me. And again, I'm like, "Yeah, all of this is true." So, how do you know if someone is creative? Okay, and here are some of their responses. "They see possibilities." "They ask questions." "They're curious in their listening." "A creative person overcomes judgment by leaning into imagination." "They're human." I like that one.

Pete: Oh, that's good.

Jen: "There's a tuned in air to them." "They see problems as possibilities." "They're excited to hear about your creative projects." And basically, everything was on this theme of listening, curiosity, and openness. But interestingly, when we say, "What is creativity," nobody said, "Listening."

Pete: Interesting. That's fascinating.

Jen: Right?

Pete: But people indicated...they didn't say curiosity, but I feel like people sort of articulated a form of curiosity in the first answer, but they didn't say "listening".

Jen: Right. And the curiosity that was suggested came in the form of words like "imagination".

Pete: Right. "Possibility." Yeah.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: Okay. Alright, alright. So, what are we doing with this? This feels like interesting fodder.

Jen: Well, it leans into something I've been thinking a lot about, which is that being creative requires output that other people can see, because other people will label you as creative if you have taken some sort of action. But the truth is, every single person has creativity inside them 100%. And then when we take action, we see it as, "Oh, that person must be creative, because they're so open, because they're listening, because they're asking so many questions."

Pete: Right. Yeah. And we can go on a tangent about whether it comes more innately to others. But I think ultimately, what I hear is, it's a skill set that requires or can be cultivated through deliberate and intentional practice. Like, I can deliberately and intentionally practice listening and being curious, right? In fact, I do. And to me, that's a great skill set if trying to teach a leader how to be more coach-like in the way they lead their team, practice curiosity, practice asking questions, practice holding space, and listening. And I guess I'm realizing in this moment, what you're actually also encouraging that person to do, that leader to do is to practice creativity. Whoa, that feels like an aha moment.

Jen: Right? I know, that's the aha moment I'm having too. The thing that's so interesting is when we are down on ourselves in those moments where we're not feeling so creative, or we're like, "Oh, I have no ideas," or, "I'm just staring at the blank page," or, "I just must not have that much imagination," the thing that we're asking ourselves to do is not what we would be asking someone else to do to cultivate their creativity. When I am feeling creatively stuck, my first thought isn't, "Ask some questions."

Pete: Right.

Jen: My first thought is, "I need a stroke of genius."

Pete: Right, right, right, right. "I need to paint a masterpiece."

Jen: "Where's the magic?"

Pete: Right, right, right. "And you're going to be struck by lightning with an idea." Yeah.

Jen: Right.

Pete: So true. So very true. And that, to me, feels like the really empowering, amazing part of this, is breaking down creativity to really easy to practice skills, like asking questions. And as I was thinking about this idea just now, as you were sharing it, I was struck by that amazing book (which we've mentioned before, but we haven't mentioned for a while) called A Beautiful Constraint.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: I'll pop a link to it in the Box O' Goodies. The title sort of says it all, but it's like this idea of reframing constraints as actually beautiful and things that we can leverage, as opposed to things that will restrict us and cause us to not do things. And one of my favorite ideas from that book is this idea of "can if". And I'm paraphrasing based on how I remember reading it, but ultimately, what I remember is that often we get stuck on things like creativity, and we say, "I can't because..." So, "I can't be creative because I haven't been struck by lightning," is like what came to mind when you were like, "I'm waiting for the stroke of genius," and the idea is to reframe that to a "can if". So, for me, this now becomes, "I can be creative if I ask questions, like I start to ask more questions." And so that, to me, is like the first step of, "Oh, I feel stuck. I'm not feeling creative. Oh, I can be creative if I just start to ask more questions, or if I start to listen more." It's so empowering.

Jen: Isn't it? It's making me think of something I read in this wonderful book called Influence Is Your Superpower by Zoe Chance. I actually just finished re-reading it for the third time, because it's so good.

Pete: It's always a good sign when someone's read a book for the third time. It's got to be a good book.

Jen: Yes. And at this point, I really need to reach out to this author because I love this book so much. But one of the things she shares is something she calls the magic question, and the magic question is, "What would it take?"

Pete: Hmm. Nice.

Jen: And that is a creativity question if I ever heard one. So, "What would it take to...," you know, fill in the blank, whatever the context is.

Pete: Right. "What would it take to start a podcast?" "What would it take to write a book?" :What would it take to start a business?" I love this question, because I think it's so easy to think about all of the reasons why I can't do something.

Jen: Right.

Pete: And then, think, "I'm stuck." And I actually think creativity is one of the most important skills of problem solving. Is, you know, when we feel stuck or in a problem or a challenge, or if we're like, "Do I start a business, don't I start a business," we default to binary and we default to like having our blinkers on and only seeing a couple of options. And one of the things I think that creativity can allow us to do if we practice asking questions or asking ourselves questions like, "What would it take," is we start to realize there's so many more options in front of us than the two we originally thought.

Jen: Now, in the book, she gives us an amazing example of...actually, I can't remember if it's in the book or in the many podcast interviews I went down the rabbit hole of, but she gives an example of someone going to their boss and saying, "What would it take for me to earn a promotion?"

Pete: Oh, that's good. That's really good.

Jen: Right? And then, boss lays out what it would take. And now, what's been created is the opportunity for this person to move ahead, which, I just love that so much.

Pete: Nice. Also, just like get that in writing so that when you do all the things that your boss just said, then you can show it to them and say, "By the way, I just did what we said would take success."

Jen: Yeah. And that is exactly what she says to do.

Pete: Nice, nice, nice. "What would it take?" I really like that. I mean, this is not that question, but you made me think of an example. I was talking about like binary thinking and how creativity is helpful for problem solving and decision making. I specifically remember an example where I was really stuck in a particular situation. I was helping facilitate an online leadership workshop and there was someone who was kind of struggling and on the fence, and I was thinking to myself that we either have to give them a refund and say, "Thanks, but no thanks," or tell them, "You're not going to get a refund" and like, stick it out. Like, I was seeing two options and I was like very stuck in said options. And our mutual friend, actually, the amazing Ian Scott was on Slack at the time, and I happened to be on Slack at the time. and he said something like, "What's the third option?" And I answered the question. And he said, "What's the fourth option?" And I answered the question. He said, "What's the fifth option?" And he kept going until about 11.

Jen: Wow, go Ian.

Pete: And it was so genius because what he forced me to do, he asked questions, he practiced creativity, and it forced me to be more creative and get out of the black and white. So that's not the, "What would it take," specifically, but it was a really helpful example of how I got unstuck and how we together created a different option.

Jen: Yeah. And going back to the Instagram answers, practicing curiosity, asking questions created all of these other possible solutions. I'm really interested to repeat this experiment with a different audience. Because as you mentioned, Pete, the people who follow me on Instagram are almost exclusively people who identify as artists and creatives. So, you know, they think about creativity a lot because their work is "creative". But I'd be really curious to hear answers from people who don't identify as a creative. "What is creativity? And how do you know if someone's creative?" And if you, listener, or someone who identifies that way, I would love, love, love for you to shoot us an email: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.com. Because I'm finding this incredibly fascinating, and the number of aha moments I've been having just trying to link these ideas together has been really exciting.

Pete: I would love to hear from other people too, so please send that email. And I feel like I probably fit this description of someone that you just described. The thing I'm finding so fascinating, the aha moment I'm having which I sort of alluded to earlier, and I think that the way I'll take this forward is in helping leaders, because I spend so much of my time working with leaders in companies and executives in companies. And I think that creativity in that context can be so nebulous, so elusive. So like, "Oh, we need a Head of Innovation to help us practice creativity, because I can't do it." And what you've done or helped me illuminate, or illuminated for all of us, our listeners, and what your Instagram followers have illuminated is like, there are really specific skills that we can practice that are so easy and accessible to everyone, like asking questions. It's so...it's so bite-sized and easy to implement. I just, I love that. It's like, if you think you can't be creative, ask more questions.

Jen: Well, this points to something else that's worth discussing, which is, I don't know that any of the creative people who answered the question used the word "innovative". I'd have to go back in and look, but how do we know if something's innovative? Usually, we would name something innovative if it's new and it works.

Pete: Right.

Jen: And so we're talking about a result, an outcome, we're not talking about the input.

Pete: The process, yeah.

Jen: So, we've got to go through the process to determine if something is new and it works. So innovation is a result of creativity, but it is not creativity.

Pete: I feel like that's a big aha moment for me too. I feel like this just is so helpful to hear that creativity is a process, a skill set that we all have access to by listening, by asking questions, by being more curious. And that the result of that can be innovation, among other things.

Jen: Right.

Pete: That is a wildly accessible and interesting idea that I am going to take and march forward with to all of the clients and executives that I'm working with. So thank you, Instagram. I never thought I would say that...but thank you.

Jen: Instagram, you came through. Maybe social media isn't a cesspool of humanity, but instead a place that we can go and...whoa, ironic meta moment. Maybe it's a place we can go and ask questions, so that we can record episodes about creativity noodles.

Pete: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.