The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 235 - Obvious To Me

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: Hello, Jennifer.

Jen: I learned something that I apparently needed to learn.

Pete: Ah, that's how learning goes.

Jen: Yeah. And I kind of need your help wrapping my brain around it. And basically, the learning is this: What's obvious to me is mind-blowing to you.

Pete: Yes, that feels obvious. That feels obvious, ironically...and maybe not to you. How interesting. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Jen: That's really funny.

Pete: Hearing you say that, I'm like, "Yeah. I know."

Jen: Well, it was mind-blowing to me.

Pete: Right, right, right. So, here we go. Let's get meta.

Jen: So I was delivering a talk to a room full of people who identify as creatives, 100% of them.

Pete: 100% creatives.

Jen: No exceptions.

Pete: Alright.

Jen: I was giving a talk about creativity to a room full of creatives. And so, I'm assuming that I'm going to have to unpack some more complex concepts, because everyone in this room is a creative. Turns out? No, not true. I stated some things that I assumed were basic, obvious, anyone who works in a creative field would believe this to be true. And turns out that that is not the case. And in fact, some people waited for me after the talk, one in particular who has had wild success in her career, and she said, "I feel a sense of relief that I've never felt before. I just always assumed everyone was more creative than me, and hearing you say, 'Creativity is a skill set,' made me go like, 'What? It is? I can practice it? Wait, what?'" And I was like, "Oh my god. This person who is a wildly successful, creative person, it never occurred to her that her creativity was part of her skill set."

Pete: Wild.

Jen: Right?

Pete: They thought it was just a biological gift?

Jen: Some people are just more creative than others, and she just got dealt a different hand.

Pete: Right, like some people are taller than others. Yeah, interesting. Interesting, interesting.

Jen: So I mean, we could do a whole other episode on creativity as a skill set.

Pete: Right, right, right.

Jen: But what just really blew my mind is this idea that just because something seems basic to you, does not mean it's basic to someone else. And how important is it then, that we communicate really clearly? Because someone else might not have the same fundamental concepts that you have, and they might be working with a completely different foundation.

Pete:156%...yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Because no one knows what you know, no one has the context that you have, no one has the same worldview as you do, because of the fact that you have lived your life in so many specific and unique ways to you, that no one else could possibly know all the things you know.

Jen: Right.

Pete: Like, part of me says, "Of course," when you share this, because...I mean, I've actually thought about this a lot. And I think I've written a blog (I'll put it in the Box O' Goodies) called, I think it was something like, "What's ordinary to you is extraordinary to me." And that aha moment came to me, actually, when I spent some time with you in New York and was surrounded by a room full of 100% creatives.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: Except for me. And I think I sat in on a few of your classes, and now they're singing in front of one another and they were like sharing in front of one another, and I was like, "Oh my god. I feel so sick, having to imagine myself doing any of this." Like, the thought of any of that just made me like want to melt in my chair, because of the discomfort I felt. And I was like, "Oh, what's ordinary or normal to everyone in this room is outrageously mind-blowing extraordinary to me. I can't even wrap my brain around it." It makes a little more sense in the context of like people coming from completely different industries, I guess. But what you're describing is fascinating to me, which is, you assume that a bunch of creatives would understand what you understand about creativity.

Jen: Right.

Pete: And yet, that's not true. So, that is just fascinating and wild.

Jen: It's also a real confidence builder. In that, I don't know about you...but I can draw some conclusions based on past conversations so I will hypothesize that you've had this experience, where sometimes it's like, "Ugh, do people really need another talk on leadership? Do people need another talk on creativity? Hasn't it all been said before? Hasn't it all been done before?" And it's a real confidence builder to recognize, "No, it hasn't all been said before. At least not in the way I would say it, based on my unique lived experience."

Pete: I have no idea what you're talking about, I've never had...I definitely didn't have that experience yesterday in Sydney when I was delivering a talk. That's so true. I mean, it's so true. And I think about this in a few ways. So, I literally had this experience yesterday. I was sharing with you earlier, I was part of this event that was actually really cool. It was like a sort of a festival, a speaking festival for a particular client here in Australia. And basically, there were five speakers and we each did three sessions each over the course of a day. And people, like at a festival, got to pick which session they wanted to come to. Incredible test of how you can dance with your imposter, when you're like, "I wonder if anyone's going to show up to my session," especially when the caliber of the other speakers was high. Like, these are some of Australia's most well-known speakers in the leadership development and kind of personal growth space, I would say. And my goodness, when they were introducing everyone, I was sitting there, and I think I made a joke about it at the time, I was like, "I want to go and listen to the other sessions. Because you don't need another topic. You don't need me to share how I think about leadership and what I think is important to think about." And yet, people came and showed up, and I got some great feedback. So like, there's a fascinating tension between...I definitely believe that there are no necessarily crazy, unique, brand new ideas, well, in the world that I live in, in terms of leadership development and executive coaching. But there are different unique spins or stories that articulate those same core ideas that other people resonate with, that perhaps don't resonate with the other ways it's been communicated to them. So it's like, you know, I guess Austin Kleon has written a whole book about this, like Steal Like an Artist. You know, the innovation comes from adding your spin to a topic, and that then makes it unique. So it's not that it's just another voice in the room, it's actually a unique story and voice based on perhaps older concepts. So anyway, that's how I try and justify it to myself.

Jen: Yeah. And it's so funny because on the flip side of that, we logically know this to be true, in that how many leadership books are on your bookshelf? I'm looking at your bookshelf right now.

Pete: So many.

Jen: Lots and lots and lots of leadership books, because you know that each spin on leadership is going to offer you something different and something useful. It's just wild how we can talk ourselves into a corner.

Pete: It really is.

Jen: It's also making me just think about conversations gone wrong. I'm replaying some old conversations gone wrong and questioning, "Did I make assumptions that the person was working with the same set of details that I was working with, or even just the same philosophies I was working with?"

Pete: Right. That is fascinating, because I would suspect not.

Jen: Yeah. I suspect that too.

Pete: Right? I mean, we talked about this in The Perception Paradox, I'm pretty sure, where multiple people could be looking at the same thing or experiencing the same thing or having the same "conversation", and extrapolating completely different meaning from it based on their worldview and lived experience and context and definitions. And it's wild, yeah. So the other thing that you reminded me of, in hearing you describe this experience that you had, is the Reflected Best Self exercise.

Jen: Mmm-hmm.

Pete: Which we've mentioned on so many episodes, but I'll mention again. It was, I believe, originally attributed to Adam Grant, and I'm sure he borrowed it from someone else.

Jen: He did, from the University of Michigan, is where it was developed. Yeah.

Pete: The University of Michigan, alright, and we'll put a link to this in the Box O' Goodies. Basically, it's an exercise that I've had many, many clients do (and I've done it myself), where you reach out to a series of close friends or collaborators or colleagues. Maybe five, maybe ten, maybe twenty...it doesn't really matter...and you just ask them to share a story of a time where you were at your best, when you were operating at your best. And what then gets reflected back to you, as the name suggests, is you at your best. And what usually happens, I would say 99% of the cases that I've heard of, is there's a bunch of patterns and themes, and people are surprised by the patterns and themes. They're like, "Oh, you think I'm really curious and empathetic. But isn't everybody? Doesn't everybody think about things this way?" And the answer is no, not specifically in the same way that you do.

Jen: Right.

Pete: It's an exercise that reminds us that what's obvious to you is not necessarily obvious to everyone else.

Jen: [banging noise] Do you hear that banging in the background?

Pete: Yeah, yeah. What's happening?

Jen: Okay, listeners, I am in a building from 1890, and the radiator just went on. And there's literally nothing I can do about it.

Pete: Okay. Let's roll with it.

Jen: So, enjoy the steam heat.

Pete: Sweet, sweet sounds of the radiator.

Jen: Yep. I, too, have had that experience of getting feedback and assuming that the feedback would be one thing about what my potential contribution was, and then hear something totally unexpected. Not because I don't see that in myself, but because I didn't think that thing was that special.

Pete: Right. Yeah. I think the other application I think about a lot as it relates to this idea, or the other like call to action I think about as it relates to this is, you know, when you're in a meeting or in a workshop or in an environment where people are asking for input, or asking for a question, or encouraging others to speak up, it is so easy because of fear and impostor syndrome and doubt and all the things to think, "Oh, I won't ask this question," or, "Who am I to add this input? Like, I have nothing to contribute to this conversation because everyone knows that," or, "It's such a silly question," or, "It's such an obvious insight." And I just think that this reminder is an important one, which is, whatever you share, whatever question you ask, is going to be uniquely yours, because of the fact that you asked it. And so, please share your idea. Add your question to the conversation, because that's why people ask for it.

Jen: Ironically, that was very much what my talk was about.

Pete: Oh, interesting. I was just thinking...as I was saying that, I was like, "I sound like I'm describing some form of creativity here."

Jen: Yeah. I think being able to share your ideas out loud is part of that creativity skill set, and requires a lot of bravery.

Pete: Right. And ironically, I'm realizing, we...I mean, I can't speak for you, but I'm going to. We have this experience all the time with our podcast, which is like, "I have an idea for an episode, Jen, but it's the most obvious thing ever. You know, let's talk about time auditing, because like it's the most obvious thing of all time." And then, people send us emails and go, "Oh my god, I've never thought about time auditing in the same way that you thought about it." And you're like, "Oh, okay. Interesting." So, I guess we've gotten good at practicing the muscle.

Jen: Truly. And it will never cease to be surprising.

Pete: Right. Right.

Jen: Because your experience will always be your experience. And when someone else is like, "That's not my experience," it's just wild.

Pete: Right. I feel like there's other manifestations of this that I think about a lot. Like, when you're giving a talk and you say something that, in your mind, you're like, "Oh, this is just like the bridge between the point I'm about to make," and then everyone is like having a shocked look on their face and they start writing it down, and you're like, "Oh, you're writing that part down? But that wasn't even the good part. Why are you writing that part down? That wasn't even the good part."

Jen: I have been experiencing that recently to the highest degree.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: Which, just for anyone out there who does any form of public speaking, like sharing ideas with an audience of any size, it's been such a good reminder to keep it simple and go back to basics. Just keep going back to the simpler idea.

Pete: Yeah. I feel like you once said to me, "A really great keynote should be summarized on the back of a napkin."

Jen: Mmm-hmm. Or on a bumper sticker.

Pete: Right. "A sixty-minute keynote should be distilled into essentially like a sentence."

Jen: That's right.

Pete: Really fascinating. The other example that I hear about a lot is in relation to stand-up comedy. Where, you hear many, many, many famous comics saying they go into these little like random bars and practice all of their material before a big event. Because they actually don't know which jokes people are going to really laugh at, because to them, "They're all either ordinary or extraordinary, and I don't know which one." And then, they deliver it and they go, "Oh, interesting. That joke got a lot of laughter," or, "Interesting. That joke did not get any laughter at all, so I'll scrap that one from my repertoire." But you don't know until you like...because it's all kind of ordinary to you, because it's been in your head for so long.

Jen: Oh my gosh, I have that experience almost daily now in class.

Pete: Telling jokes?

Jen: Well, I tell a lot of jokes, but they're like musical theater geek jokes, where I will try to make a joke by like singing a lyric of a song. And then, I, you know, pause and wait for the laugh. And I'm like, "Oh. That song is basic to me, but nobody in here has ever heard of it. Okay. Good to know." And as I get older, that becomes more and more frequent.

Pete: Well, that's happened to us a lot. In that, you've done exactly what you described to me, and I'm like, "I have absolutely no idea what that means." Or conversely, sometimes...I mean, this happened the other day. We recorded an episode, and I talked about faffing. And I was thinking to myself, "Haha, this is quite funny. I'm using the word 'faffing' in an episode." And you were like, "What's that?"

Jen: Life is funny.

Pete: Ordinary to me. Bizarre to you. Yeah, life is bizarre and funny.

Jen: So what's the learning here, Peter Shepherd?

Pete: Well, to me, the learning is: It's worth making assertions and sharing them with groups of people. It's worth coming up with ideas and arguments and stories and sharing them with others. Because your voice is uniquely yours. Your stories are uniquely yours. Your context is uniquely yours. And in sharing all of that with others, we're able to help them connect dots, we're able to help ourselves connect dots, and we're able to ultimately create new ideas and projects and like neural pathways so that we can all get smarter, get more creative, be better leaders.

Jen: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.