The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 253 - More Humanity

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: Hello, Jennifer.

Jen: You know what would really stink? If instead of actually jumping on a Zoom call and seeing each other and connecting and talking, we just like did this podcast via email and hit send. And then, the listeners had to read it without any tone, without any connection, without any humanity to it. That would stink.

Pete: That sounds stinky and something I don't want to do.

Jen: Which is why I want to talk to you today about how we might seek to add humanity in our increasingly digital world.

Pete: Alrighty, humanity in a digital world...no pressure to get this summarized in twenty minutes, team. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Jen: I've been thinking about this so much lately, but the thinking was really brought to a head the other day when I went to the memorial service for my agent, the late great Jim Wilhelm, who was eulogized by many luminaries in the Broadway community. And a very well-known and very well-spoken casting director, (I feel like I can call her out) Tara Rubin, gave the most beautiful eulogy about Jim. But something that she said just really, I can't stop thinking about it. So I'm about to go Insider Baseball, listeners, but I promise we will apply this beyond the Broadway context. So Tara was sharing that when she had just started in casting, she was working for a casting office where she was manning the front desk, and that Jim would come in and hand deliver the headshots and resumes of his clients who he wanted to be in consideration for certain roles. And then the head casting director would come out, and they would have a conversation in which Jim was able to speak about each one of his clients and why they would be such a great fit, and leave that conversation having secured appointments for his clients. And Tara had made a comment (I can't remember if it was before or after) about how today it's just, you know, click, click, click, click, click. And it got me thinking how the convenience of being able to just hit click on something has removed our need to connect with each other about it and has removed the opportunity for deep conversation. And sometimes, if you even are attempting deep conversation, it's happening in the form of an email, which is missing all of the human components. So anyway, I can't stop thinking about it. Because as we seek more convenience, we're actually making our jobs harder and harder. They're easier. But they're harder, because we have less of the vital human information that we need to make good decisions.

Pete: Yeah. Yeah. I don't feel like this is too Insider Baseball at all. I think this is super relevant to anyone listening. So I had this conversation with my friend Josh a couple of days ago, where we now live in a world, because of digital technologies, where everything is so convenient. And just because it's convenient doesn't necessarily mean it's good for us.

Jen: Right.

Pete: And so we were kind of talking about this idea of, sometimes there's value in friction that we don't necessarily realize. And I feel like that...because of the fact that we all got forced to work from home over the pandemic, I feel like the convenience and the lack of friction in order to be able to, for people that work in a company, "go to work", which is to walk into the spare room or walk into their study and turn on their computer, the convenience of that we think far outweighs the friction of having to commute to an office or go to an office or be around other people. And I've feel like that is worth challenging. And so, that is one sort of conversation I've had with Josh. The other one that speaks to this, that I just want to get out there, is...I feel like I may have shared in this podcast at some point, I've moved to Brisbane in the last six months. My wife and I moved to Brisbane, which is a different city in Australia. It's not Melbourne, everybody. It's a different city. And in doing so, it's forced me to reevaluate certain behaviors or habits. And so, I was able to work from home very comfortably when I was in Melbourne. And I fell victim to, I think what I see now, I fell victim to the convenience of that. And what I realized in moving to Brisbane is I don't know anyone, I don't have any friends or family up here, and so I intentionally got an office space and created friction, i.e. I have to commute to that office space which takes about fifteen to twenty minutes. And I do it, I've given myself like three days a week where I go back to the office. And the first day I got there, I was chatting with someone who's now become a friend, Stacy. And she said to me, "Oh, why do you come in to the office when you could so easily work from home with your work?" And I said to her, "Oh, I'm here for the banter." And she laughed, thinking I was joking. And she was like, "Seriously, though. Why are you...? Why do you come to the office when you don't need to?" And I was like, "No, actually, I'm here for the banter and for the human connection." Because what I realized throughout Covid, and then exiting Covid and still working from home, is I had convenienced my life to a point where I had no human interaction, no banter, no colleagues to have a laugh with over coffee or in between meetings. And I really missed that. And so this is a long-winded way of me saying, I feel like there's a time and a place for friction, especially as it relates to enabling human connection.

Jen: Yes, yes, yes. This conversation is bringing up visuals in my mind of the movie Wall-E.

Pete: Aww.

Jen: Remember Wall-E?

Pete: Oh, I love Wall-E.

Jen: Which is just like the summary of this whole conversation, in visual form.

Pete: Yes.

Jen: I've been thinking about this so much in terms of how, at least in my line of work, the most valuable form of currency is relationship. And because the connection is no longer built in to the industry, you have to really go out of your way to offer a connection, to seek a connection, to get someone to even notice that you're trying to make a connection. Otherwise, you are relationship poor.

Pete: Yeah. And so, I think that...I wasn't sure how far down this road I'd go, but I'm happy to go down that road. I think that like the missed connection from a relationship perspective is really interesting from a work point of view and like work opportunities that might get missed, but I think that the way I've been thinking about it more and more is actually just from a mental health perspective.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: And from being a social human being, which we all are, perspective. So, there is a brilliant documentary called Stutz on Netflix. I'm going to put it in the Box O' Goodies. If anyone hasn't watched it, I highly recommend it. It's about this therapist/psychiatrist, Phil Stutz, who is Jonah Hill's therapist/psychologist/psychiatrist. And he creates a documentary about this gentleman, because he has these tools and these ideas that he just found so helpful and it helped transform his life (him, being Jonah Hill). And there's this one framework that he describes that I literally write at the top of my notepad every week now.

Jen: Mmm, I can't wait to hear.

Pete: It's a pyramid with three levels. And the bottom level is body, your body. The middle level is people. And the top level is yourself. And so, I'll do a poor job of explaining this, compared to how he explains it. But basically what he says is, for people that he's working with that have challenges with their mental health, or just like people who are flat or down, or just like people...in fact, I don't even think he specifies that they need to be struggling with anything, it's just like a framework for how he thinks about core fundamentals of being human. Essentially what he says is, if you can do something every single day for your body, like movement, exercise, walking, stretching (whatever it is, doesn't matter), then that's amazing. And then, if you can go up a level and do something that is about other people, i.e. connecting with other humans, then that is also amazing. And then, if you can do something for yourself, like meditate, or again, exercise, or read a book, or do something for your own brain, then that is also amazing. And his hypothesis is, we should be doing something from each of these categories every single day.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: That is the key to what he thinks is really effective mental health. Now, when I watched this documentary, I realized that middle gap was the one that was completely missing. I was like, "I have connection in the form of you and I, or my clients, or my work in a remote capacity," when I watched this documentary. But I realized I didn't have the people connection of actual in-real-life people.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: And so, that's why I've intentionally been trying to create that. And I just feel like it's exactly what you're describing, is, we need these human connections, not just from a work perspective, but because we are social primates that thrive off social connection.

Jen: You have just illuminated for me yet another reason why I have the best job in the world.

Pete: Yes.

Jen: Because it's all three of those things every day.

Pete: Exactly. Isn't that, yeah, that's so interesting. For some reason, the simplicity of that framework for me, I was just like, it's so...I feel like I'm really good at the bottom one and I'm really good at the top one.

Jen: Mmm-hmm.

Pete: And for me, it was the middle. But for someone else, it might be they're really good at the middle one and they're not as good at the bottom one. Like it's just, yeah, it feels very practical. Which is kind of the whole documentary, it's very practical.

Jen: So, that is an example of convenience which actually enhances your life.

Pete: Right.

Jen: So the convenience of having three things to think about, and to be able to model your day around ensuring that those three things get to be present. And please correct me if I'm misunderstanding the framework, but it doesn't mean that you have to go to the gym. Although if that's what you choose to do, great. But it could mean walk up the stairs instead of taking the elevator.

Pete: Totally.

Jen: Like, it doesn't have to be hard. It just has to be.

Pete: Exactly. Do something for your body. Do something for based on people and connection. And then, do something for yourself. So for me, the easy way to solve the middle one was, "Oh, I go back to an office and it forces me to be around people and meet people." But it doesn't even have to be that much friction. It could be that you intentionally go to a cafe, if you work from home.

Jen: Right.

Pete: And have a conversation with the barista, rather than scrolling your phone while you wait for your coffee. Like, you can make it as large or as small as you like. To your point, you could just walk up the stairs.

Jen: Now, let's say that you are someone who does have a remote position. I'm curious about the ways one could engage this while not having the option, perhaps, of working in-person. The first thing that comes to mind for me, Pete...and you know this because I've complained to you about it before, it is such a pet peeve...turn on your camera.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: It was startling to me to enter a non-creative Zoom room or a Zoom room full of people who didn't identify as artists because when I am in a Zoom room, I could have one hundred and fifty artists in there, one hundred and forty of them will have their cameras on. So, it was stunning to me to go into a Zoom room and see one hundred and forty cameras off. I was like, "Whoa, what is the story that this is telling? The story this is telling is, 'We don't care.'"

Pete: Yeah. Yeah. Now, to your point, there is a time and a place for some people to not have their cameras on. Like you said, one hundred and forty of one hundred and fifty.

Jen: Of course.

Pete: So, there's still ten. But I totally agree with you. When it's, gosh, I've been in spaces and I've definitely been in workshops and settings where it's like, there's three people on camera and there's forty-eight people definitely not on camera. It's wild.

Jen: Yes. And my guess is, not all forty-eight of them are breastfeeding.

Pete: Right.

Jen: Which, by the way, you can keep your camera on for that if you want to.

Pete: Very true. Very true. Yeah.

Jen: The other area that I've been thinking a lot about when it comes to human connection, and how the loss of it and the move to digital has really contaminated the experience, is negotiating.

Pete: Mmm.

Jen: It is very inhumane and inhuman to negotiate via email. And some people really want to stick to email, so they don't actually have to get into a conversation and allow improv to occur.

Pete: Mmm. Yeah.

Jen: That everything feels so scripted and so buttoned up, that it loses any sense of care for the humans behind the negotiation. And because I'm in a constant position to be supporting my clients who are negotiating their contracts, I just see the loss of human connection as being so unfortunate in that situation.

Pete: Yeah. So a couple of weeks ago, I was in Adelaide and my friend Mary gave this keynote about work being a determinant to our well-being.

Jen: Mmm. Mmm-hmm.

Pete: And I was just thinking about this in the example that you shared before, of like, if you're in a work environment where a bunch of people aren't on camera, or if you're in a work environment where there is no in real-life connection, or if you're in a work environment where you're working so hard that you have no time for the other parts of the pyramid that Stutz outlines, then that is a determinant of your well-being. It impacts how you feel.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: And so for me, I've been thinking about this in the context of, so how might we create workspaces...and we recently did an episode on containers...how might we create containers that enable people to have connection, that enable people to learn something? Which, to me, is that top part of the pyramid, is like the self. But also, enable people to maybe move their body. Like scheduling a break for ten minutes, if you're running a workshop or a meeting, and tell everyone to walk outside for five minutes.

Jen: Yes.

Pete: If well-being is the outcome, be it great well-being or poor well-being, then given how much time we all spend at work or in our careers, how might we shift that environment and create the conditions there to improve the likelihood of that outcome being a positive one?

Jen: I would love to share with you a container I create based on human connection, and just hear...I actually want to watch your face while I say this.

Pete: Oh my god.

Jen: I teach a class called Duets. And one of the weeks (it's usually the second week), I will have people stand in front of the person they're going to be duetting with, so their partner, and I have them hug. So, everyone in the room is hugging. And we just hold the hug, and we try to sync our breaths with each other.

Pete: Wow.

Jen: And then, when it feels like we have dropped in...and I participate in this, too...I ask them to step back, and just look each other in the eye and breathe. And it goes on and on and on. And then, we will repeat the process with other people in the room.

Pete: Wow.

Jen: But it is, at first, so crazy awkward. And then, it becomes the most beautiful thing you could possibly experience.

Pete: Mmm.

Jen: And you feel so seen, so close, so held, so taken care of, and so ready to work.

Pete: Mmm. Ooh, yeah. It feels like such a vulnerable act, hearing you describe it.

Jen: Yes.

Pete: But then I'm kind of like, why is that a vulnerable act? You know? To look someone in the eye? And isn't it wild that that is, I guess, part of the world that we now live in? Is that that feels like such a vulnerable act, to be in a room with someone and actually look them in the eye and breathe.

Jen: I have done the eye contact part in corporate workshops that I've run before. I've never done the like, "Please hug your partner."

Pete: I was going to say, this is very brave of you. Well done.

Jen: Well, we have consent agreements in the studio. And we would need to set that up, you know, outside of it.

Pete: Yes.

Jen: But that, "Just stand there and look each other in the eye, and see what happens." And then inevitably, some people start laughing, sometimes people start crying.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: But then, you kind of feel the whole room take a collective breath and be like, "Ah, we're here."

Pete: Mmm. Nice. Yeah, I feel like...I'm guilty of this too...but I feel like sometimes we overcomplicate, as leaders or as humans, how we can make other people feel seen.

Jen: Mmm-hmm.

Pete: And actually, sometimes it might just be worth coming back to, what if you actually saw them?

Jen: Right.

Pete: Like, literally saw them?

Jen: Yep. Well, I'm really curious to hear from our listeners. If you have found ways to increase the humanity of things that were once done with real-life humans that are now done in a more digital space, I would love to hear how you approach that. Because I'm looking for new ideas. I want to improve myself in this area. I would love to hear what you have to say: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.com.

Pete: Please, please, please. And I feel like with some pretty wild advancements in technology that are going to increase the likelihood of us wanting and getting more convenience, this conversation around how we might create more humanity is only going to become more relevant and important.

Jen: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.