The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 264 - If You Build It…

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: Hello, Jennifer.

Jen: Are you familiar with the movie Field of Dreams, starring Kevin Costner?

Pete: I am familiar with the reference, sort of...but I'm also a terrible reference point for movies, because my movie knowledge is not great.

Jen: Okay, so you don't need to know much...

Pete: Okay.

Jen: ...to have potentially heard the famous line from this film, which is, "If you build it, they will come."

Pete: Ah-hah. Oh yeah, I've definitely heard that before. I didn't know it came from a Kevin Costner movie. Fun.

Jen: Okay, well, I think it's bullshit. And I'd like to rewrite that line.

Pete: Alright, yes. Let's rewrite it. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Pete: "If you build it, they will come." Okay, so I've heard this in all sorts of work contexts, project-related contexts, corporate contexts, so I didn't know it was from a movie called Field of Dreams. What's the context? Tell me more.

Jen: Okay, well, I'll read you the logline from Field of Dreams, from imdb.com. "Iowa farmer Ray Kinsella is inspired by a voice he can't ignore to pursue a dream he can hardly believe. Supported by his wife, Ray begins the quest by turning his ordinary cornfield into a place where dreams come true." And that place turns out to be a baseball field.

Pete: I never have to watch that movie, by the sound of it. Thank you for that synopsis.

Jen: You're so welcome. But the reason I think...okay, maybe calling it bullshit was a little overdramatic. But I do think it deserves a rewrite. So, here's what I am proposing as the rewrite for that line: "If you build it and invite them, they will come."

Pete: Uh-huh. Yep, I like that. I can get on board that. I also have an objection to that even, but I'm on board with that too.

Jen: Okay, so before you object, the reason I want to rewrite this line is I think there's too much passivity. And I see this in my clients. I see this in friends of mine who are writers. I see this in friends of mine who are filmmakers, who have solo shows, like whatever the thing is that they're building. I see this in you. I see this in me. That it's like, "Well, I made the thing. So shouldn't people come and engage with it?"

Pete: I have no idea what you're talking about.

Jen: And instead, if you add the, "If you build and invite them, they will come," there is some new responsibility on you to share what you have made, to share that there is a place to express what is waiting for someone should they come, as opposed to like, "Well, I made it. Now, it's their fault if they don't come."

Pete: Totally. Totally agree. I mean, I feel very called out. And I think that this is a very common phenomenon, where we creative people and leaders and executives and everyone, I think, or a lot of people love to create stuff and build stuff and make stuff. And the thing we don't like is spruiking it, is sharing it, is inviting other people to come and see it, because that all of a sudden is almost inviting judgment on oneself. At least, that's the story we tell ourselves.

Jen: Yeah. I've had this just in such literal terms over the last couple months, I have several clients who have recently put together solo shows, and are either about to do them or have just completed doing them. And they shared, in the development of this show, that fear that nobody would come and see it, like, "I'm going to make this thing and I'm going to do it, and like what if nobody comes?" And the way to counteract that feeling is to literally invite people, which can feel so so so scary. And I have had to sit down with clients and walk them through actually creating a list of people to invite and how to tailor the invitations, "I made this thing and I think you, specifically you, might like it because...". And it's so scary to do it that way. However, they've had wild success with it. People who they've never met, who they have invited and said, "I think you would specifically like this because of X," have said, "Oh great, set me aside a ticket," or, "Set me aside two tickets," or, "I can't make it to the thing but I'd still love to see it. Is there going to be a recording I can watch?" And it's just surprising that when you actually open yourself up to having someone say no (and this has been a theme on many of our episodes recently), that they just might say yes. But you've got to "invite" them...I'm putting big air quotes around that, because "invite" is specific to whatever the context is, the equivalent of "invite them".

Pete: Yes. A wise person once said to me, "If you invite someone, they might say no. But if you don't invite them, they can't say yes." Is that right? Did I get that right?

Jen: That's right. That's correct.

Pete: Alright. (That wise woman was Jen Waldman, for those playing at home.) Okay, I mentioned a slight objection to this. And maybe it's not an objection, maybe I just need to wrap my brain around it some more. Because the concept of building something first, and then inviting people to judge it or see it or navigate it or interact with it, I feel tension in. Because in my world in the past, where I've worked in technology companies or organizations that are creating things for clients, the thing that I want to avoid is building things without testing it, whether it's something that someone wants. So like we've talked about before, the question of, "Who's it for," being so important to being a precursor to building anything. Because unless we're building something that's solving a problem for someone, then when we invite them, they might just say no, because, "This is not for me. This is not solving something that I need solved." So I feel like, yes, build it and then invite them. But I also feel like, make sure you're building something that people want.

Jen: Yes, yes, yes.

Pete: Does that makes sense?

Jen: Yes. Uh-huh. You must validate the need for the thing.

Pete: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

Jen: Oh my gosh, Pete, in March 2020...so this must have been like around March 15th, Broadway would have shut down two days prior, I had decided we were taking our studio online. And I wrangled a very devoted group of artists from the studio onto a Zoom call, and I said to them, "Okay, this is what's happening. I'm taking the whole studio online. And it's going to be this, this, this, this. How does that sound?" And they were all like, "Um, we don't want that." And I was like, "Thank god. Thank god. Okay, tell me what about that is not appealing." They expressed it, I went back to the drawing board, did a new iteration, got them back on a Zoom call, and they were like, "Yes, yes, yes. That sounds great." So I built it, invited them, and they came.

Pete: Yes. So, you understood the need. But also, I think the part before that is, yeah, you came up with an assertion about what you wanted to build. But then, you tested it. You didn't dive straight in to building. That's the thing that I think so many startups and companies and projects, that's where they fall down, is they don't actually do the validation piece. And so, you know, whether it's creating a wireframe of a new piece of software and then testing it with people so that you know how they interact with it, then you can build it, then you can invite them. So I just, yeah, I'm onboard this idea, provided we're building things that people want. It reminds me, there's a...I think it's a great metaphor from the book This Is Marketing by Seth Godin that I think about all the time, which is when it comes to marketing a product or, you know, building something like we're talking about now, you want to avoid creating a key and then running around to a bunch of different doors and trying to figure out which door this key unlocks. Because you might have a thousand doors, and you've built the key and you're like, "Okay, now I've got to go try and unlock all these doors, and basically try and fit my product into an avenue that I haven't discovered yet, I'm just looking for." Versus finding the door that you want to open, studying the lock, and then fashioning a key intentionally designed for that lock. The door, I guess in this metaphor, is the need. What is the need, the challenge I'm trying to solve? Can I create something for that need, that challenge? And then, to your point, then invite people in?

Jen: Yes, yes, yes. So, we actually have a double rewrite of the line. We need a line before the line,

Pete: It's not going to be as catchy.

Jen: Yeah. It's getting long-winded now, but more accurate.

Pete: It's true, it's true, it's true.

Jen: So: "If you determine there is a legitimate need for it, and if you build it, and if you invite them, they will come."

Pete: So catchy, just rolls off the tongue. Rolls off the tongue.

Jen: Yeah, you need several bumper stickers in order to get the whole line out. But the gist is there.

Pete: But I mean, I just, I've seen this so many times in corporate contexts, where someone gets excited about an idea to improve a thing within the company. And they go and build it. And that might be they built a slide deck, or that might be that they've actually like gathered people to work together to build a new feature. And then they bring it to their manager or the product manager or an executive within the company, and go, "Look at this thing we built." And they're like, "Why did you build that? We don't need that. It doesn't do the thing that we want it to do. And you just wasted a bunch of time." So yeah, I just...yeah. "Build it and then they will come." Hmm. I disagree as well. I disagree as well. Kevin, if you're listening, I'm sorry.

Jen: Sorry, Mr. Kostner, so sorry. So Pete, I mentioned that I see this in you and I see this in me, and I see this in us as a team. We have, on many a call, lamented the fact that we don't do the best job in the world of spruiking our own podcast. That we, you know, we're sort of like comfortably coasting with the listeners that we have and we're not reaching outside of our comfort zone to reach new listeners. So I figured if I called us out on this episode, that maybe we would do better?

Pete: Woof. I did not expect this.

Jen: Sorry.

Pete: That is a very, very fair call out. We have built a podcast based on a need that we both identified at the start. So, we did that first piece. And we built it. And a bunch of people have come. And two hundred and sixty-odd weeks later, I think you're right, it's the same people that are still coming. Which is great. And we love you, listeners. But we haven't told more people about it. We did tell people at the start, you're right. But it's...so maybe there's a lesson here for not just us, but also others. It's not just tell people once about the thing you built, but remind people and invite new people and remind them again and invite new people again.

Jen: Right.

Pete: There's a repetition, I think, inviting people in to the thing that you've created.

Jen: Yes, and to learn from the way your invitees are responding. So, we got our first listeners basically from our circle of friends and colleagues. And we had two big spikes in listeners over the years, when somebody with a larger platform than ours (namely Simon Sinek and Seth Godin) helped spread the word about this. But recently, we received an email from a college professor, who said that he had included one of our recent episodes in a newsletter that goes out to all of his students. And I was like, "Oh, that's fascinating." That was something we can learn from.

Pete: Mmm-hmm.

Jen: We can seek placement in people's newsletters. Or we could reach out to large organizations of people (which you and I both have access to) and say, "Here's an episode that we think might actually be very useful for your entire community." Sometimes, we will get emails from someone with specific episode ideas. We take those to heart, sometimes we record an episode. Do we send it directly back to that person? Well, you're better at email, so maybe you do.

Pete: Sometimes, I do.

Jen: But I feel like there's ways for us to learn about how we're engaging with our listeners that can help us be better at inviting people. And I'm saying this because I'm guessing there are listeners out there right now who are thinking of their own projects, their own website, their own show, their own company, their own product, and are like, "Oh, right. I could go back and look at how people have already engaged, and the ideas that are already there that they've basically given me, that I could then run with."

Pete: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Well, I didn't expect to get so viciously called out. But I think you're right.

Jen: I'm calling myself out too.

Pete: I think you're 100% right. And again, so common for us humans, creatives to make a big deal about the launch of something and share/invite people to a thing that we've created at the start. And then, so common to then stop doing it and go, "Well, I communicated it to everyone when I launched it, so they'll just come." I think there's a magic in the repetition or the follow up or the reminder that we can give people. So listeners out there, something we used to say to you actually is, if you feel inclined, take a screenshot of this and post it on your socials or send it to a friend. That would be super helpful for us. And we'll try and do a better job at inviting others to come and listen to our podcast.

Jen: Yeah. And you know what else would be so amazing, listeners? If you would rate and review this podcast...which we hardly ever ask people to do. But today, just for fun, I went to our page on Apple Podcasts, and like our most recent review is more than a year ago.

Pete: I was going to say, it's probably been a hundred episodes since we said, "Please rate and review us," so that probably explains why.

Jen: Yes. So listeners, would love love love for you to help us find new listeners by rating and reviewing this podcast...as uncomfortable as it is for us to ask for that. If we ask, you could say no. But if we don't ask, you can't say yes.

Pete: Oh dear, it's all getting meta. It's all getting meta. Alright, so that feels like a solid takeaway for us. What else do we do with this idea?

Jen: I actually feel like you could put this whole thing into steps. You mentioned that a lot of people will launch something, and then sort of like leave it there. I actually know a lot of people who have validated ideas and have not yet built the thing.

Pete: Oh, interesting. Interesting. Interesting. So they know it's a need or they know it's a thing that someone needs, and they haven't actually built it.

Jen: Right.

Pete: Huh.

Jen: So: Validate. Build. Invite. Receive.

Pete: Yes. Validate. Build. Invite. Receive. Or...

Jen: VBIR.

Pete: VBIR. Great acronym. You're welcome, everybody. And instead of "invite", one might even use the word "spruik". Which, I don't know why I put it in the accent. Spruik. Spruik, spruik, spruik. And if you are from North America and you're wondering, "What the hell is the word 'spruik', and why is Pete saying it all the time," I'll put a link to the episode called Spruik in our Box O' Goodies. It's an Australian word, that I didn't realize it was an Australian word, that I used to Jen one day.

Jen: Yeah. We built that. And we are now inviting you to listen to that episode. And we will receive your listenership. Thank you for it, in advance.

Pete: Wow. Alright, Jen. I...I mean...I don't know what to say other than I feel so called out. So, thank you?

Jen: You're welcome.

Pete: And maybe, just maybe, I'll go and watch this movie Field of Dreams. But I feel like I got the gist from your summary and the rewrite of this idea that, "If you build it, they will come." And instead of, "If you build it, they will come," "If you build it, it being a validated idea, and then invite them, they will come."

Jen: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.