The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 277 - Quitters Day

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: Hello, Jennifer.

Jen: Well, a holiday has just passed, Pete

Pete: Okay, a holiday. Is it an American holiday, an Australia holiday? What holiday?

Jen: Well, it is a global holiday that I'm not sure we should actually be celebrating, but I feel like we need to acknowledge it. And that holiday passed last week. Friday, January 12th was International Quitters Day.

Pete: Ah, okay. I did not know where this was going. International Quitters Day, I need to learn more about this. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Pete: Jennifer, what are you talking about? What is happening?

Jen: Quitters Day is the second Friday in January, and it is the day when most people give up on their New Year's resolutions.

Pete: Oh my gosh, I'm so sad that it only takes twelve days. That feels so soon. We just ticked over the new year, guys. It's okay. We got this.

Jen: I know. Well, it's the second Friday in January every year. And I honestly don't even fully know the background of Quitters Day. I think I heard about it for the first time a couple years ago on Gretchen Rubin's podcast. But I believe that she cited it as being something that had been studied by researchers and that is what they had landed on, the second Friday in January is the day when people tend to give them up.

Pete: That's wild. I wonder if there's data from gyms or something on like memberships being canceled or something like that? Like, I wonder what it is that gives them that impression. I just, yeah, the twelfth feels so soon. I feel like we're just getting started.

Jen: Well, the reason we're going to celebrate it (or not celebrate it) today is back a couple episodes ago when we were talking about 2024, you and I made a promise to circle back on our own intentions and resolutions or words or themes for the upcoming year. And I said we would do it right around Quitters Day. When I said that, I thought it was in February, and I was stunned when I realized it was in January.

Pete: I know. I feel like I remember thinking, "Oh, I've got months to get my stuff into auto once we've got this episode out there." Nope, we got approximately twelve days.

Jen: Yeah, so I thought it would be good for us to make good on that promise and just update people as to where we are. But then, I also thought it might be useful to talk about perhaps being more realistic, setting more meaningful goals for ourselves, establishing boundaries and expectations for those goals. When should we quit? When shouldn't we quit? It feels like International Quitters Day actually brings up a lot of useful topics.

Pete: Right, useful topics that we've kind of touched on at various points. But I like the idea of like, let's talk about explicitly what makes us quit. Why do we quit? And when should we quit?

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: I think that's an interesting question on its own. Okay, so firstly, is it worth touching on where we got to with our own commitments or our own ideas for approaching 2024? And have you quit anything yet, Jen? Have you quit anything?

Jen: Well, I don't set New Year's resolutions, so no.

Pete: Okay, good.

Jen: What about you?

Pete: ...I'm just thinking about it. No, I haven't. I haven't. No. It's like, I'm still...I said to you before we recorded, you know, I guess this is a southern hemisphere thing maybe more than a northern hemisphere thing. But this is so often a holiday period for so many people in Australia, at least, because this is our summer holiday break. So, school has like six weeks off or eight weeks off. This is, I guess, the equivalent of what you have in July/August, maybe?

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: In the States? So basically, the whole of Australia is in holiday mode. So I don't feel like I've even started anything to quit anything because I'm just like reading books, and, you know, planning things for the new year, and hanging out with Ollie and Tracey and family. So, I haven't quit anything but perhaps I haven't actually started anything either. I'm just drifting.

Jen: Hard to quit when you haven't started. Well, why don't each of us just super quickly give an update on where we're at. You want to go first?

Pete: So I spent more time looking at the question of, "What's new this year," as opposed to, "What do I need to continue doing, or what resolution do I need to create for myself," because I have so many what I would call like, you know, BAU (business as usual) practices, like going to the gym and exercising and meditating and journaling and recording podcasts with Jen and doing certain types of work. Like, I already have so much focus on those things. They're kind of...not on autopilot, but they kind of can take care of themselves. So I've been focusing on this idea of, "What's new," specifically, "What are some new rules I want to create?" So some of the new rules I have, I'm going to only work four days a week from May, to spend Monday with Ollie, which will be a whole bunch of fun and hopefully make Tracey and my transition to her going back to work a lot easier. And I've blocked that out in my calendar, so that is how I'm committing to that. It's in action, in that every Monday from May onwards is blocked. (And I think I actually mentioned that in that episode.) Another one is, I'm taking the whole of July off, because that is the month that Tracey will go back to work full time. And so, we're anticipating that's going to be a bit of a juggle. In fact, it will be a juggle, so I've just blocked out the entire July. And I've started telling clients, "I'm not available in July."

Jen: That's amazing.

Pete: So, that's a new rule that feels kind of scary. And like, you know, who am I to just take a month off? It feels pretty scary and daunting to just dad...or not just dad, to dad. And so, that's kind of exciting and scary. I've also got some other ones around, like I'm going to try and only travel on Wednesdays and Thursdays, so then Tracey can travel on Mondays and Tuesdays for her work. So like, there's a big theme here, which was basically the overarching thing of what's new for me this year is, obviously, I have a son for twelve months. But I have a son for twelve months in a world where we have two full-time working parents, essentially, from halfway through the year. So a lot of my rules and ideas are around, "How do we make this work for us in a way that enables us to support one another and spend as much time as possible together as a family?" I guess I should have started with that, but I got there eventually. That's the general gist of my overall rules.

Jen: I love that. Yes, that's a wonderful focus. I support this.

Pete: Great. The other one I've been thinking about, I won't necessarily give too many specifics, but I came across this idea of a minimum engagement fee, which is talked about for consultants a lot, where you might be asked to do a certain bunch of projects or, you know, for me to coach a certain amount of people. And sometimes it's like a once-off coaching thing, sometimes it's like a twelve-month coaching thing. And there's this...I cannot even remember where I came across it...but this idea that I really liked, which was like, "You should set a minimum engagement fee for yourself, which helps protect your boundaries of, 'I can do this work, but my minimum engagement fee is X.'"

Jen: Right.

Pete: "'If you don't have that budget, that's cool. We can high five and talk to each other in twelve months time, or whatever.'" All of these, I feel like I'm realizing in this moment...maybe this is an aha...like, all of mine are basically around creating boundaries.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: Huh.

Jen: That's amazing. I love it.

Pete: There you go. I feel like that was a rant, so let's hear from you, Jen. What are yours?

Jen: Well, it's funny. When we were recording the 2024 episode, I just sort of flippantly said, "Well, I don't know, I want to find a way to use the word 'raise' in a phrase. Like, maybe it's, 'Give my self a raise,' and 'my self' will be separated into two words." And I sort of said that and moved on. And then, I went through this whole day-long process of investigating all these different phrases and all the different ways I can use these words. And then, what did I end up landing on? "Give my self a raise." And I have really been enjoying that phrase. Because I'm not talking about a raise, like a money raise. Although, you know, I can give myself a raise in that respect, too. But like, how do I raise my voice? How do I raise my standards? How do I raise my concerns? How do I raise my expectations? How do I raise my spirit? Like, there's a lot of different ways to approach this. And I've just found myself, if I'm in a conflict or even in a moment of questioning, I go, "Well, how can I give myself a raise in this moment?" And it has been very clarifying.

Pete: Ah, interesting.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: Interesting. I like the multiple applications. I mean, hearing that last one, it reminds me of the like Michelle Obama-ism, which is, you know, "If they go low, you go high."

Jen: Yeah, exactly.

Pete: That feels like an example of what you're saying, is, if you're in a difficult situation and someone comes in with a, you know, a little kick to the ankles, it's like, "What does it look like to give yourself a raise in this moment, to go high?"

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: Mmm. Wow, very cool.

Jen: So I'm not quitting on that one, Pete.

Pete: Don't quit. Can I ask...because I had this conversation with someone recently...how are you ensuring that you don't quit? How are you keeping that top of mind? How are you staying accountable to that? What does that look like for you?

Jen: Well, that is a very good question, because I'm thinking of it more as a values statement, as opposed to something I'm going to put metrics around. That being said, I do have some very specific goals I'm trying to reach this year. And so, this becomes kind of like a guiding principle for how I intend to reach the goals in a way that feels in alignment with myself. It's less about me being able to measure it, and more like being able to keep the principle front of mind.

Pete: I like that. It's like a focus on process. And then, the hope of doing that is the outcome of the goal that you've set.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: I like it. There were two words I was toying around with (I've actually still got them in my dock), and I haven't fully committed to them but it feels kind of tangentially related. And that was, "Do you." I had that as like, "Maybe they are two words I should think about for 2024." Because I have a tendency to think about trying to people please everyone else. And when I was thinking about all this boundary setting of like, "What's going to be the push back that I take July off? Where am I going to feel tension when I say to someone, 'Oh, I can't do that workshop on a Monday because I don't work Mondays.'" And the tempting thing would be, I guess, to do the usual, which for me would be to just make it work.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: And so instead, I thought of like, maybe this idea of like, "Do you," like, "Invest in what you've said you want to do and do that, and commit to that." So yeah, I've just given you a plus one. I really like that idea.

Jen: Yeah, I like it too.

Pete: Alright. So, what about quitting?

Jen: Well, I'll tell you my take on the whole quitting situation.

Pete: Alright, here we go. Jen's hot take...we need some theme music for this.

Jen: I mean, I've been promising for a couple years I was going to do a STARlMAP episode, so it feels like maybe this really needs to happen.

Pete: It's in our future.

Jen: This happened to me...I've always been a really good planner, and strategizer, and goal setter. And what was missing for me, as someone who's really good at those things, was finding the meaning and the purpose behind why I was doing everything I was actually doing. Like, I was setting goals that sounded really good, or, you know, making commitments or resolutions that like on paper, they sound so good and I can totally do those things. But if there's no internal drive, if it doesn't fill you up, if it doesn't make you happy, if it doesn't give you more purpose and meaning, and also, if you don't make it simple to implement, eventually, you'll burn out. I didn't expect that people would burn out in twelve days. But apparently, that happens. That you establish a resolution that sounds good and maybe even you think it would be good for you, but if you can't really get behind why it ultimately truly matters, it's easy to give up on it. That, I think, is like in emotional terms what is going on for a lot of people. I am no behavioral scientist, but that's just Jen's hot take.

Pete: I totally agree with that. Yeah, there's something in like the intrinsic motivation of the goals that we set that we stick to. We're intrinsically motivated to do them, regardless of what happens as a result of us doing them. So, you know, I feel like it would be remiss of us to talk about habits and New Year's resolutions, and not mention James Clear and his book, you know, Atomic Habits.

Jen: Right.

Pete: But he had some questions in his email, a week or so ago. (He's got this great 3-2-1 email.) And there were questions that, I think, helped frame resolutions for people. But I think within that is this idea of intrinsic motivation. And the questions were, "Who are you trying to become this year? And which actions will reinforce that identity?"

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: So it's kind of, in my mind, getting at like this idea of acting as if, is, "Who is the kind of person I want to become this year?" So for me, I want to become the kind of person who works four days a week so that he prioritizes spending time with his son and supporting his wife. Okay, great, that's who I want to become. So, "What are the actions that I'm going to take that will enable that to be reality?" Well, I'm going to block out my calendar on these days. I'm going to literally like black out July on my calendar. Like, "What are the actual things you're going to do that reinforce the identity?" Because he has this whole really brilliant take on the fact that if we can tie our habits to our identity, we're then more likely to, I guess, stick with them because we're intrinsically motivated to be that kind of person. We want to be the kind of person who sticks to things.

Jen: Yeah, I resonate with that. I resonate with that quite a lot. The other thing that comes to mind in regards to people making a commitment to do something that they actually want to do, and that feels right and good for them, and then quitting on it, is we tend to have unrealistic expectations for how many resources go in to making change.

Pete: Mmm.

Jen: You know, we're trying to change things in our lives, it takes time, it takes energy, it takes creativity, it takes relationships, it takes support, sometimes it takes money. There are all of these resources that get tapped. And as we're in the process of asking ourselves, you know, "What do I want to change," we don't always consider how depleting some of these things are. And so, tending to making sure we are able to keep our resource buckets full, I think is really important. Another thing James Clear talks about in Atomic Habits is breaking the habit that you want to instill down into these bite-size atomic pieces. And I know I have been guilty of this, if I'm like, "You know, I want to be the kind of person who goes to the gym more frequently. I'm going every single day." Well, that's not sustainable if you haven't been going at all.

Pete: Yeah, yeah. "I'm going every day for two hours from a base of zero." Like...?

Jen: Right. Right, right.

Pete: That's what I was thinking as you were talking, is, I feel like so often (I'm so guilty of this) the reason we quit is we set an unrealistic goal, like we say that we're going to commit to doing something every day or for a certain amount of time every week. And in hindsight, we go, "Wow, that was probably a bit much." So I just go back to this idea of like, "What does it look like to dramatically decrease the scope of that change to like a 1% improvement?"

Jen: Yes.

Pete: And I mentioned Kelly Starrett on our Favorite Things episode, of the book he wrote with his wife. And I heard him interviewed recently talking about the book, about moving better and living a more healthy life. And he just had this like throwaway line of like, for him, it's not about, "Go to the gym every day for an hour." For him, his idea is, "Never do nothing."

Jen: Mmm.

Pete: So that means, "If today you only have time to do like five push-ups on the ground, great. You didn't do nothing. Today, you did something. Move on with your life." So he's like, "You don't have to do the two-hour gym workout every day. You don't have to stretch for forty-five minutes." This is one I always put in mind. The one I'm guilty of quitting a lot is, "I need to stretch more or mobilize more." I just was joking with you before about how sore my back is, and I'm like, "I need to stretch more." And so, I've been thinking a lot about like, "What about if it's never do nothing? So if you stretch for twenty seconds today, great. If you stretch for twenty minutes tomorrow, even better. But just don't do nothing."

Jen: Yeah. Okay, it would not be fair to celebrate Quitters Day without actually celebrating the concept of quitting, which is sometimes the right thing to do.

Pete: For sure, yes. Okay, I love this. Because the thing that I also did, I wrote, "What's new," which I mentioned at the start, "What are the new things I'm bringing in?" The other thing I wrote was, "What's out? Or what are you doing less of?"

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: Which, in my mind is like, "What are you quitting?" So, something that I've actually decided to quit is writing my blog every week. I have written a Sunday blog for, I don't even know, it was like five-plus years, up until I had Ollie. We had Ollie last year. And then every Sunday, I would beat myself up because either I didn't have time, I couldn't be bothered, I felt tired, I was all over the place. I would sometimes do it. It became this like completely inconsistent habit, which was so weird for me. And I was not committing to quitting it and I was not committing to doing it every Sunday, and it felt awful. And so this year, I've decided I'm going to quit writing every week. And instead, put that energy into other things, which, you know, will become more evident, perhaps, for listeners in the future. But yeah, that's one example of like, "I'm intentionally deciding not to do something, and quitting, and celebrating that."

Jen: Yeah. There's a wonderful book by Seth Godin called The Dip.

Pete: Right.

Jen: Which we haven't talked about in a while, but we talked about many times on this podcast. And in it, he talks about when it's worth it to persevere and push through, and when does it make more sense to quit? It's a very easy read, you can read it in an afternoon. I highly recommend it if you, listener, are someone who is currently struggling with whether to quit your New Year's resolution or whether to push through and keep going. The Dip, for a lot of people who read it, is the answer they've been looking for.

Pete: Yeah. And just like normalizing that quitting is a strategy, I think is really really useful.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: Like, gosh, I feel like so many of us listening to this could do with quitting something like social media. Anyway, that's a podcast for another day.

Jen: Yeah. Oh, well, so I did quit something. As of January 1st, I quit the JWS (that's my studio) Facebook page. It's gone.

Pete: There we go.

Jen: Yes.

Pete: Nice.

Jen: We moved everyone onto the online platform. Facebook's gone, bye Zuckerberg.

Pete: Oh dear, alright. Well, I like that you have helped me understand, and I think helped our listeners understand, that there's two different ways to look at Quitters Day. And I like that you framed it as a holiday that we can celebrate. Because actually, part of looking at our resolutions...and maybe there were some that we really actually want to do and we fell off the wagon, and so maybe this is a nudge to get back on the wagon. But actually, perhaps there's a prompt to think about, "What are some of the resolutions or just the habits or behaviors I actually do want to quit? And celebrate the fact that that's what I want to do." So I think there's a reframe on, it doesn't have to be doom and gloom just because you quit something, it could actually be the point.

Jen: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.