The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 284 - H.A.L.T.

Transcript:

Pete: Hello, Jennifer.

Jen: Hello, Pete.

Pete: It must have been at least three or four episodes since we've talked about acronyms or established a new acronym or riffed on someone else's acronym, so I thought it's time. It's time to do one about another acronym.

Jen: I mean, who are we without our acronyms?

Pete: Right. Exactly, exactly. So today, I want to talk to you about H.A.L.T. (H-A-L-T). And this stands for hungry, angry, lonely, tired. And I want to just unpack what these things mean, where this acronym might be helpful, and where I learned about it, and see if we can establish why and how H.A.L.T. could be so effective in making decisions and in choosing projects.

Jen: Oooh. I honestly don't know that I am familiar with this acronym, so I can't wait to learn about H.A.L.T.. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Pete: Alright, so I was reviewing my rabbit ears...is that what they're called, when you fold the book over at the top of the page? Is that called rabbit ears?

Jen: Oh, we call them dog ears.

Pete: Dog ears, rabbit ears...maybe they are called dog ears, and I just exchanged dog for rabbit. I was reviewing my dog ears in the book Clear Thinking by Shane Parrish. And that book (which I really love, I'll put it in the Box O' Goodies) was one of those books where like every third page had a dog ear or a rabbit ear, as it were. And one of the things I revisited in the last week was this acronym H.A.L.T., H-A-L-T, which he talks about standing for hungry, angry/emotional, lonely, and tired. And the context of which Shane Parrish introduces his framework is in the context of decision making. And I think it's so brilliant, because I've been thinking a lot about decision making lately. I know you and I have spoken about decision making, so I want to get your thoughts. But I also was starting to think about where else this might have some relevant application, because I feel like it could actually be really useful for a lot of things. So he basically describes (and I'm paraphrasing) that when seeking to make a decision, before you commit to making the decision, you should ask yourself, "Am I hungry? Am I angry or emotional? Am I lonely? Or am I tired?" And his assertion is, you shouldn't make important decisions if the answer to any of those questions is, "Yes." That we want to make sure we are well fed, we are feeling emotionally stable/rational, we are not feeling like we are lonely or we're not coming from a place of loneliness, and we're not like super tired.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: I think it's a little bit tongue-in-cheek, but I also am like, "Actually, it feels kind of wise to not make decisions when I'm really hungry or when I'm really tired." So, that's the context.

Jen: I absolutely read Clear Thinking. And it's funny to me, I must have been tired when I made the decision to read this page, because it doesn't ring a bell. But now that you're saying it, I'm like, "Oh, yeah, it's definitely in there." So I've got to go back and review my own dog ears. But oh my goodness, Pete, do I agree with this. And I'll tell you, as a person who is getting older, the "tired" part is so critical for me. I can't even begin to tell you. But I'll begin to tell you that the amount of brain cloud that I have when I'm tired these days is really significant.

Pete: Someone said to me other day, "I feel like I'm always tired." And I said, "Oh, yeah. I know that feeling." And they said, "When did that start? Is it like when you turn thirty? When does that start?" And I go, "Oh, no. It was when I was seventeen. I distinctly remember being at school, and I started drinking coffee because I was so tired all the time." But that's sort of a random aside. I agree with you. It sounds like the tired, for you in particular, is one that you're very aware of when making decisions. I do just want to say how kind of hilarious but also interesting it is, how we both read the same book and some of us really grab on to certain things and others forget that they were even part of the book. Hence, why I think re-reading great books is really important.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: In any case, for me, the bit that stood out a lot was "hungry". For some reason, "hungry". But like, I just so often find myself feeling in a rush to make a decision, or like, "I need to quickly get this email out or this proposal out, or finish this thing, because then I can go and have a lunch break, or then I can go and have a coffee and some breakfast." And it's like, I often feel like the deadline of a meal is something I need to get something done before. And in reading this, I was kind of like, "Oh, interesting. What would it look like if I just paused, had the meal or the coffee or whatever, and then thought about it some more." Because often what happens is, I ship something, even just like an email, and then I'll go and have my snack or my coffee on my lunch, and I'll be thinking about what I just shipped while I'm doing it. And I'm like, "Goddammit, I forgot to say this," or, "I forgot to ask this," or, "I forgot to do that." So. I was taken by the hungry element. But I'm also six-foot-seven and hollow, so I'm kind of constantly hungry.

Jen: I was going to say, I've seen you eat. So, it makes sense to me. You know, the thing that strikes me about this list is, some of these things, I feel like I have trained myself to have an awareness in how I'm going to react to the feeling, specifically when it comes to angry. I know that I wouldn't make a decision when I'm angry, because I've trained myself over time to not make a decision when I'm angry, or to get all of my angry ideas out and then step away, and then reframe. And maybe it's because there's such a negative connotation to the word "angry", that it's easy to see why that's an ineffective state of mind to be in when making a decision. But the thing that really gets me is the "lonely". Like, I don't know that I've ever really asked myself, during a decision making process, "Am I making this decision because I'm lonely?" Right? Yeah.

Pete: Right. Yeah. It feels like a...like a woof. Like a kick in the teeth. I feel like I probably have made decisions based on that, without realizing that that's what I was doing.

Jen: Yeah. That feels, to me, the most vulnerable of these four things.

Pete: Hmm.

Jen: Like, "hungry" feels biological. The "angry" feels reactive. The "tired" feels biological. But the "lonely" feels contextual.

Pete: Hmm. Interesting. Yeah. I guess also biological, in the sense that we are a social species. So if we are not feeling part of a group or connected to an organization or another person, then we're probably not doing our best thinking. And the book is, you know, the book is called Clear Thinking. So it's like, these are the kinds of things that we need in order to be able to make better decisions, is his idea.

Jen: The acronym is so clever, because it's an instruction. And then, the instructions are baked into the acronym.

Pete: Hmm.

Jen: We had another episode called W.A.I.T., which is also an instruction. And then, the instructions are contained in the acronym...or in that case, it's a question.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: And I just find that a clever bit of thinking from Mr. Parrish.

Pete: Well, also, from you. Wasn't it you who came up with W.A.I.T.? Which was, "Why am I talking?" Which, by the way, I've had so many clients reach out to me and go, "Oh my gosh. That acronym W.A.I.T. is so helpful, so that I don't talk over the top of people."

Jen: It's so good. I didn't come up with it. I heard it, and I stole it. But I use it.

Pete: So the other thing I liked about this acronym is, it speaks to something else that I'm sure comes up in Clear Thinking. And it's come up in...I mean, there's a whole book written about it, The Checklist Manifesto. Is like, it feels like a checklist when making decisions. So I've spent a bunch of time nerding out on, how do you make effective decisions? I think that one of the things we...we, being humans and professionals, I guess in a sense. We are kind of like constantly just making decisions, all day, every day. "Where will I spend my time? Who will I spend my time with? What am I going to prioritize? What am I going to wear today?" Like, we're constantly making decisions. And yet, so few of us (myself included, you know, a lot of the time) have like a rubric or framework for making certain types of decisions, certain effective decisions. And so the thing I like about this is, it's just one of many. There's so many different ways to think about decision making. But it's one really easy to tick off checklist, that I like. That when I feel particularly paralyzed and stuck in certain decisions, which I do sometimes, I like the idea of, "Here's a tool to help you get unstuck." And it's kind of comical, but it's also kind of very helpful, because like, "Are you hungry? Are you angry? Lonely? Tired?" I just feel like when my wheels are spinning and I don't know how to make the "right" decision...this is like part of Pete's quirk, is he's always looking for the "right" decision because he wants to get the A, which is like a whole thing. So I just find this a helpful heuristic...I think is the right word, maybe? Rubric? We're just throwing out random words now, that I think are relevant. And yes, it's like a checklist. That's why I like it.

Jen: I could see this being useful from two other angles. And I'm cooking this noodle as it is coming out of my mouth, so help me here, Pete. But I could see this being an important thing to take into account when someone else is making decisions about you, and when someone else or a group of people are making decisions with you. So this actually, not this acronym, but this idea came up earlier today in my audition workshop, when we were talking about, "What is the ideal time for an audition appointment?" And I was using information from Dan Pink's book, When, to explain that it's not a great time to audition when people are hungry or tired, so you don't want to go right before the lunch break and you don't want to go in those last thirty minutes of the day.

Pete: Right.

Jen: Like, you want to optimize. I'm interested in how the "angry" and "lonely" plays into the audition room. But I could see that like, this could also be an empathetic tool, to just sort of like take the temperature of someone else who is making decisions that have to do with you.

Pete: Oh, that's brilliant. I've not thought about it through the lens of, "What might be going on for someone else? Like, maybe they're hungry, or angry, or lonely, or tired." That feels really helpful, when it comes to engaging with other people. Especially in the context of those other people, you know, making a decision that might impact you, like you said, like an audition or a job interview.

Jen: Mmm-hmm.

Pete: Yeah, I think you're right. I almost...I was just like jotting down as you were talking, my oversimplified, generalized version of that is, it's almost like when doing something important for ourselves (and important is contextual to who we are and what we deem important), it's worth like checking in with this like before I do this important thing that I really care about. This feels so obvious. But I think sometimes, I probably do important things when I'm like hungry or tired. So, it just feels like an important way to help you show up as your best self. It's like, "Here's an important thing. I want to show up and put my best foot forward. I want to make sure I am doing everything I can to be in service of how I want to be seen. One way of doing that is to tick off these certain things, of like, Am I hungry? Am I angry? Am I lonely? Am I tired?" And then the other thing I was thinking, less on the macro, is more like difficult conversations or having to solve a difficult problem, like something that there's tension, something that feels hard. There are, again, a myriad of different techniques and tools to try and navigate certain things that are hard, but I just, I feel like sometimes we forget the obvious one, which is this. It's like you joked about, "How am I biologically? Am I hungry? Am I tired? Like, where am I, before I do this thing?" Hmm.

Jen: Yeah. Okay, and there is that other angle of when you are collaborating with a group to make decisions?

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: And I mean, I know I've been there, I know you've been there, and listeners, I'm sure you've been there too, when you're having to work as a team to make some sort of a decision. And then along the way, someone shits on your idea or someone is rude or like something happens, and then that internal fire starts to burn a little bit, that angry thing. For me, it is a, "I will show you I am right, if it kills me." That's what my fire sounds like. Yours might sound different. So, I will become urgent about making a decision. Like, it motivates me to make a decision. But that's not the best frame of mind to be in. So I could see this as like a take your own temperature in a group, but also take the temperature of the group. I'm thinking about some retreats and off-sites I've been at when my child was younger, where the loneliness factor was very real for me, like the missing home, being away for several days, not being able to FaceTime, or whatever it is. I don't know, so I could see how this like could help you to more thoughtfully design experiences for your team.

Pete: That is so true and so brilliant. I just yesterday got home from a three day off-site with a group of senior leaders from around Australia, who came from all different backgrounds, some had families, some had partners. Everyone had context of their life back home, whatever that home was for them, whether it was they had just driven down the road or whether they flew from the other side of the country. I was co-facilitating with this other extraordinary lady by the name of Mae, and we were so aware of, "How do we meet the group where they're at?" But we didn't do it through the lens of H.A.L.T., which I actually absolutely love. What you just pointed out is like, "Can you create the conditions to try and minimize people's hunger? People's anger? People's loneliness? People tiredness? Can you create space, so that everyone can FaceTime home before their kid goes to bed? Can you make sure that dinner doesn't go until 11pm, and so that everyone's tired the next day? Can you make space for people to share if they're struggling, or what they're struggling with from an emotional perspective?" Like all of these things, I feel like, could be baked into a really effective off-site. That is some Jen Waldman brilliance.

Jen: Yeah, Pete. I am leading an off-site in a week and a half. And you best believe that tomorrow morning, I'm going to go back through my agenda and make sure I have H.A.L.T.ed my off-site.

Pete: H.A.L.T. it, baby, H.A.L.T. it. Well, the other meta kind of realization I'm having right now is, you know, sometimes we catch up and we have ideas bubbling out of our brain to record podcasts. We've both got multiple ideas, and we can't get them out fast enough, and we're tripping over ourselves. I mean, this is sort of rare at this point, given we're three hundred episodes in. But often, one of us has some ideas. And I call myself out in particular, sometimes, I don't. And sometimes, I'm realizing, I'm coming from a place of, "Pete's just woken up," or, "Pete hasn't had brekkie yet. And he's thinking about when he's going to have his coffee after we record this podcast." And there are very real signs of me being one of the four H.A.L.T.. And as a result, I'm unable to, I think, come up with the best ideas for podcast episodes. So as usual, I've managed to turn this into a way to call myself out. And maybe next time, before we record a podcast, I'm just going to check in with my H.A.L.T. and just see where I'm at. "Am I any of those things?"

Jen: That's so funny. I find it charming that Australians call breakfast "brekkie". I just, every time you say that, it gives me a little chuckle inside. And Pete, you might remember several Christmases ago, I sent you a spoon.

Pete: I still have it.

Jen: It is Pete's peanut butter spoon. And maybe next time, before we record, you should take that spoon of peanut butter, so that you won't be so darn hungry.

Pete: It's true. A spoonful of medicine...no, what is it? A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down. Is that the saying?

Jen: Yeah. So I think this one is: A spoonful of peanut butter helps the ideas come out.

Pete: Oh, that's good. And that is The Long and The Short Of It.