The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 292 - Don’t Start With Logistics

Transcript:

Pete: G'day, Jen.

Jen: G'day, Pete.

Pete: I was hoping that's how you'd respond. I'm doing a little re-reading of a book that I think is an old favorite of yours, definitely an old favorite of mine. And the book is The Art of Gathering, by Priya Parker.

Jen: Indeed. So good.

Pete: Just one of those books that, every time you pick it up, you're reminded of something, or you learn something different, or something really sticks out that you'd forgotten about. And so for me, the thing that really stuck out this time around, which I want to talk to you about, is the chapter titled "Never Start a Funeral with Logistics".

Jen: I mean, what a great title for a chapter. Cannot wait. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Jen: "Never start a funeral with logistics."

Pete: I feel like that's enough said.

Jen: Right?

Pete: Episode over. You know?

Jen: Goodbye.

Pete: Goodbye. So I guess to go back, the concept or the context, for those that haven't read this book, heard this book, understood this book, or even know who Priya Parker is, the subtitle of the book is, "Create Transformative Meetings, Events, and Experiences". And it's basically a book of Priya Parker's philosophies for how you might create really compelling (as the subtitle suggests) meetings, events, and experiences. And I've been revisiting this and looking at it through the lens of workshops that I run, through the lens of off-sites that I facilitate, and through the lens of even just meetings that I attend or my clients are attending. And like I said, this chapter just slapped me across the face this time around, which is, "Never Start a Funeral with Logistics". And what she goes on to articulate about what she means by that (and I'll paraphrase, obviously) is that the beginning of something, whether it's a meeting, an off-site, a workshop, a conversation, or an experience, is so critical. That the beginning, the first impression of your event / meeting / experience is so, so, so, so critical. And that, so often what happens is we go to logistics. And I don't want to say any more about that whole concept just now. But like, that is the sort of the premise.

Jen: Yep.

Pete: Does that make sense? Am I making sense?

Jen: Oh, yes. And it's funny, there's quite a crossover in the theater world, where it's very important that you make sure the audience knows what kind of a play they're seeing in the first couple minutes that they're seeing it.

Pete: Right. Of course, what a great example...I was going to ask. So part of why I wanted to bring this up is, you've done plenty of keynotes. You teach plenty of classes. I know that you are excellent at thinking about how you structure these. And I've heard you give keynotes where, the first thing out of your mouth is like this really powerful compelling story. So clearly, you have some intention behind that. Which, I would love for you to talk more about. And I hadn't thought about it through the context of plays, and what does that first scene look like? That's so awesome. I want to hear more about that. And yes, for me, I've been thinking about it as, you know, if I'm running like a half-day off-site or a four-hour workshop, it's so easy to start by saying, "Well, here's this off-site we have. These are the logistics. We have lunch at 12pm. There'll be a break at blah, blah, blah." And yeah, it might be important to share at some point, but it's such a wasted opportunity to not take the first moment and tell an awesome story or do something slightly differently. So, I guess I'm thinking about this critically through my own work. I've done this really well in some contexts and less well in others. And so, I'm just like noodling on, how do we remind ourselves to not start a funeral / meeting / anything with logistics?

Jen: Well, the how you come out of the gate establishes boundaries, rules, expectations, and tone.

Pete: Right. Yes.

Jen: So like, basically, starting a funeral with logistics is like saying the catering is more important than your feelings, or like the location of the bathroom is more important than why we're here.

Pete: Right, yes. What we focus on out of the gate creates the context for what is most important. Hmm.

Jen: Right. And going into the keynote world for a second, you're right, I do always like to start, actually, with three things.

Pete: Oh my god, hit us.

Jen: The first is that I always like to reference something specific about the group I'm talking to, and typically it is information I've only gotten within like an hour before taking the stage. Something really, really fresh that everybody in the room knows, understands, is in on, so that they know I'm not just like spouting off scripted words that would apply to anyone.

Pete: Yeah, that's good. I love that.

Jen: Number two is, I like to start with a story. And number three is, I need to get a laugh within the first ninety seconds.

Pete: These are, I just...I mean, this is like, you could stop listening to this podcast right now. I encourage you to keep listening, but those three takeaways are just so rich, listener. Reference the group specifically, tell a story, and get a laugh. I feel like I've heard you say that, but maybe I'd forgotten. Because I sent you a keynote not that long ago for some feedback, and your feedback to me was like, "You're funnier than that. Come on, make a joke. Get someone laughing in the first ninety seconds." And I'd forgotten number three. I'd forgotten number three.

Jen: Yes. Well, it's so important. Because, you know, in the environment where keynotes and workshops of a corporate variety are typically delivered, there is not an expectation necessarily that this is going to be fun.

Pete: Right.

Jen: And so, if you can get everyone expecting that they are allowed to laugh, they're allowed to feel joy, they're allowed to experience something, then it'll be easier as you move through, even if the content is going to get difficult or heavy or challenging. They've been given permission to have an emotional reaction out of the gate.

Pete: First. Yes, yes. So true. So good. Jen's keynote wisdom, huh. Okay. So what about, you mentioned plays?

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: The first scene in a play. I feel like there has to be so many learnings from this, that...I mean, this has turned into me just kind of getting as much wisdom from your brain as possible. Which, I guess is what often these episodes are. So, how can I learn from...sorry, how can we (listeners, including you) learn from how really great writers write plays?

Jen: Well, it's how the writers write. It's how the director direct. It's how the designer design. It's like so many collaborators coming together to figure out, "What is the tone of this thing? How do we want to set the audience's expectations?" And then sometimes, you want to continue to meet those expectations. But sometimes, you set the expectations so you can specifically and dramatically defy them.

Pete: Ah. So okay, okay, okay, okay. I just, there's so much wisdom to what you just said. Which is, it's not just the writers. It's not just the directors. It's actually not even just the actors or the set designers. It's all of them combined.

Jen: Right.

Pete: So firstly, you made me think of the Harry Potter play.

Jen: Yep.

Pete: Because unlike other plays I have been to (and I have not been to anywhere near as many as all of our listeners / you, most likely), the way that the foyer looks when you go to that play is important for the context of what's about to happen, and maybe changes when there's an intermission. So, that is interesting. I had not thought about that until now. What it also speaks to is this other quote from Priya Parker's book in this chapter, which is, she says her friend makes the assertion that 90% of what makes a gathering successful is what happens beforehand. Now, I read that and I was like, "90% is a very high number." I don't know if I want to believe that it's 90%, but what I hear from that is it's a really high percentage of what makes a gathering successful, is what happens beforehand.

Jen: Right.

Pete: Now, if I'm using your context, it's, "What does the set look like?" It's, "What does the layout look like?" It's, "What does the room look like, if you're running a meeting?" You know, "What does the invitation look like, or the ticket look like, or the website look like that you booked your ticket through?" Like, all these things matter.

Jen: That's right. That is right.

Pete: So interesting. So interesting.

Jen: Once upon a time, Pete, I was seated next to an Artistic Director, a hero of mine, at an event. And at the time, I was about to take over the Artistic Director position of a theater, so I wanted to just soak up any wisdom she could possibly impart to me. And I had remembered that when she had assumed her position at this theater, they had a very homogenous audience base. And over her tenure, the audience became quite diverse. And so, I asked her how she did that, expecting that she was going to give me some like long-term strategic plan. And she said, "It was fairly simple. We put the ushers outside the building."

Pete: Oh.

Jen: And I was like, "What?" And she said, "If you are trying to get people who have never been in a theater before into a theater, don't expect that they're going to know what to do once they get inside, or that they're going to even feel comfortable opening the door. Put your ushers outside. Welcome them."

Pete: Nice.

Jen: "Bring them into the space. Show them around. Get them to their seats." And I was like, "Oh my god, that is so simple." But it really does set a different kind of tone. Instead of, "You should really know your way around here," it has this feeling of like, "You're new here. Welcome. We're so happy you came."

Pete: Right. Right. Oh my god, that is brilliant. That's a brilliant distinction. I have seen you set up your classroom before class at the studio, and I'm realizing now, you're probably doing all of this very intentionally. Maybe I realized it at the time, but didn't quite put two and two together. So, how do you think about all of this in the context of your classes?

Jen: Well, because I have people who come to different classes within the studio, I try to set things up a little different for each class. So that, you know, a certain class will have a table in front of all of the chairs to sort of simulate an audition room. Or another class, we don't start with everyone seated, we start with everyone standing. And then another class, we might have something else. So, that is very much part of trying to establish expectations and tone.

Pete: And is that depending on the intention of the class?

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: So good. So I'm...again, these are like selfish questions. I'm thinking about, so often in the context of a corporate workshop, you are put in the client's office. They're not always off-sites. And so, you might be in...this happened to me so many times this year, you end up in the boardroom with this particular client, with a group of senior leaders. And what I always try and keep in mind is, this is the same boardroom that they do have all of those internal meetings. So, they do have some meetings which are a little more boring and dry than others. And so, the way they enter that room, just because they have so much context about their own context about what that room means to them, can dictate their expectation of what's about to happen. So I spend a disproportionate amount of time thinking about, how do I help them see that even though we're in the same room as they might be in the very next meeting they have after this workshop finishes, this is not going to be like those?

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: Especially if people are taking multiple classes or coming to multiple workshops, how do you make each one feel different or unique in some way, or in alignment with the intention?

Jen: Pete, you are going to think I'm really crazy.

Pete: No, impossible.

Jen: But I have been known, when doing a corporate workshop (not a keynote, but a corporate workshop where people have to engage and participate), to open the session by asking everyone to stand up and join me for the Hokey Pokey.

Pete: Oh, that's so brave. I love it. I love it.

Jen: And you can just see on people's faces, they're like, "What is this woman doing?" And then, I will sing, full voiced, the Hokey Pokey. "Put the right hand in, put the right hand out, shake it all about." And then, when we get to the end, I say, "And that, my friends, is a metaphor for our experience today. If you want to get something out of this experience, you've got to put your whole self in."

Pete: Oof.

Jen: "And that's what it's all about." And then, they all laugh. And they realize that there was actually a point.

Pete: Oh my gosh, that is good. Also, so brave. Good on you. That's good.

Jen: Oh gosh. Yep. If you've ever wanted to be able to cut the air with a knife, ask a bunch of people in a corporate workshop to stand up and do the Hokey Pokey.

Pete: I can only imagine. I'm thinking about the groups that I have coming up, and I'm like, "Who could I try this with? I don't know. I don't know."

Jen: Yeah, you've got to commit. It's a big swing. And once you start, you can't take it back. You've got to see it all the way through. But at the end, I have found there is quite a payoff.

Pete: That's a good one. I don't know. While we're sharing tactics, one of the ones I use a lot is, "Turn to the person next to you, ask them something they're interested in outside of a work context, and then draw them doing that thing."

Jen: Mmm.

Pete: I'll have people do this in the first like five minutes. And they're like, "What? I have to draw the person? And sometimes I don't even know the person next to me, and now I am responsible for drawing them doing their favorite thing? What?" And I'm yet to come across, there's only been a couple of people who are really incredible drawers. Most people are like, "I hate this because I can't draw." And yeah, the punchline that I often bring it back to is, "That was an exercise in doing things you're not comfortable with, and having a different kind of conversation. And that's what I want today to be all about. Let's experiment, try things that we're not necessarily good at, and have a different kind of conversation."

Jen: Love that.

Pete: But the Hokey Pokey, that's next level. That is next level.

Jen: But in both cases, what we're trying to do is set the tone.

Pete: Agreed. And not start with logistics, back to Priya Parker's point.

Jen: Exactly right.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: Exactly right.

Pete: So I guess one other part of Priya Parker's book, which feels like it's sort of inextricably linked to everything we're talking about...and I don't think I connected that, even when I was reading it. I'm connecting it now. Which is about, I think the title is called "Don't Be a Chill Host". And well, my paraphrased summary of what that's about is, you need to be intentional and specific and directive about what you're trying to do as the facilitator or the teacher or the coach or the party host. That to be like, "Oh, I'm chill, and everything just goes with the flow," is actually not generous. Because it can create just chaos. And it creates the conditions for certain people to talk too much, or certain people to take over. And so, like this idea of not being a chill host, of like, "Oh yeah, we'll just meander into this workshop and off we go." Like, to do the Hokey Pokey or to draw the person next you, like, it's like, "I'm not a chill host. I'm here to say we're about to do something. It's going to be really uncomfortable for you, and we're going to do it. I'm not chill about this. We're doing the Hokey Pokey."

Jen: Yeah. You know, it's making me realize that maybe people have erroneously conflated the idea of "chill" with "fun", or "chill" with "light".

Pete: Totally agree. And that's what, from memory, what Priya Parker talks about. Is, we think chill is cool because it's like, "I'm easygoing. I'm like the life of the party, and like nothing bothers me." And then, she has example after example of like gatherings gone wrong because the host was like so laissez faire that they let the people lead the conversation, and the conversation just went completely off the rails. Which happens, but they didn't pull it back. And so, in the interest of trying to be the people pleaser or the cool person or the one that's really chill, you actually don't serve the people in the room in the way that you want to. So, don't be chill.

Jen: I can't remember who I heard...I think it might have been Gretchen Rubin, who said that when she's doing a workshop, she brings a harmonica. And when it's time for the conversations to end, she blows on the harmonica. Um, I'm just going to grab something really quick, Pete.

Pete: Oh my god, I think Jen is getting her harmonica. Is she getting a harmonica?

Jen: No, this is not a harmonica. This is an antique captain's bell from a whaling ship. And I do bring this with me.

Pete: Oh my god, look at this thing.

Jen: And I ring it. And you know what happens? Everyone laughs, and then they come back to attention. It's great.

Pete: That's amazing. I do the lift your...I mean, this is just like getting into tactics now. I just do the, "Raise your arm in the air." So I will do this without even saying that, "When I raise my arm in the air, I want everyone to raise their arm in the air and stop talking." Like you don't even need to say that, because they remember. And everyone just sticks their hand in the air, like unconsciously, and stops talking.

Jen: Also, you're six-foot-seven, so people can see your hand. That wouldn't work for me.

Pete: That's true. That's true. People are like, "Oh my god, I think he's touching the roof."

Jen: For me, they're like, "Is she standing?"

Pete: "Aww, she's trying to reach the whiteboard. Look at her." Oh, that's funny. That is funny. Well, I feel like this was a selfishly very helpful reminder that I needed to think about the way we start things and how that sets the context for what's about to happen.

Jen: Yep.

Pete: And the word "intentional" comes to mind. But most importantly, I'm just reminded that we shouldn't start a funeral or a meeting or an experience or a keynote or a workshop with logistics. And that instead, we should be specific and intentional with the way that we create the conditions for what's about to happen. And we should try and get a laugh.

Jen: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.