The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 293 - Assume Genius

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: Hello, Jennifer.

Jen: I've been doing a lot of thinking lately about my philosophies around being a great coach.

Pete: Okay.

Jen: In preparation for, I think I mentioned on a previous episode, I'm doing this coaching and teachers training. (Which got moved to June, but that is beside the point.) And so, I have been sitting down and really trying to parse out for myself, "What are my tenets of coaching?" And one that I keep coming back to, and then was thrown in my face this week and I can't wait to tell you about it, is the following simple two words: Assume genius.

Pete: Assume genius. Gosh, I thought you were going to say, "Assume nothing." Assume genius. I am so intrigued. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Pete: Assume genius. Alright, I'm putting that in giant capital letters at the top of my page. Tell me more, Jen. Tell me more.

Jen: Well, if you, as a coach or as a teacher or as a mentor, you're wanting to work with clients, artists, people, whoever, who have the potential to be operating at the highest level, you have to assume that there is genius there. Otherwise, there's a disconnect. There's a mismatch. And I have found, over my twenty years of coaching Broadway actors, that I have to assume genius, because they don't always assume genius about themselves.

Pete: Right.

Jen: But if I am able to look at someone and be like, "That person is a genius. Let's figure out how to bring it out," that becomes a really fun and exciting prospect. But if I assume like, "This person doesn't really have it. They don't really have what it takes or, you know, there may not be a lot of potential there." Then like, what are we even doing?

Pete: Yes. Okay, I like the distinction. Because I feel like what I was initially thinking about was like, genius versus imposter. And so, what I like about what you said is maybe they don't even realize they're a genius, I guess is where I was going. I was thinking that maybe these are contradictory concepts, of like, can I also assume that this person feels like an imposter? Is that the same as assuming they're also a genius? Because, you know, in my experience and one of my assertions is that everyone has experienced some version of imposter syndrome, because we're all imposters. But I think both things can be true at once. You could feel like an imposter, and someone else can look at you and see genius. And so, as a coach, in your context, it's, "How do you help them see their own genius?" That's like chef's kiss.

Jen: Well, the other thing about it, Pete, is that somewhere underneath all of the layers, they have the kernel of truth that there is genius in them. It's just so interesting too, to know what you're mining for. That you sort of have to like sift through all this stuff and like, there's the gold nugget.

Pete: Yeah. But what a great philosophy to have, and metaphor in terms of mining. As a coach, I guess, or a teacher as well, is like, my posture is, "I am mining for the genius, and then trying to mirror that back to them."

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: And I think you're right. I do think you're right. It's like, whether we don't want to admit it because we're uncomfortable, because of tall poppy syndrome or some other version of imposter syndrome, I do think when you peel the layers back enough, there's something that you hear people say, like, "I always thought I could do something else. Or I always thought I was capable of something more than I am doing right now." And it's sort of like, that's what finding the genius sounds like.

Jen: Yes. Yes, yes, yes.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: And you know when you are in the presence of someone who believes in you, even if they're tough on you? Like, you can feel when the person who is coaching you or guiding you really believes in your potential and believes in the possibility. And conversely, you can also really feel it when they don't, which is the story I wanted to tell you about.

Pete: Oh my gosh. Alright, alright, alright. Is this when someone doesn't try to mine for genius? Is that what this story is?

Jen: That is exactly right.

Pete: Uh-oh.

Jen: So, it's just so funny. Because maybe it is that I'm collecting my own thoughts about what makes a great coach and this was just in the forefront of my mind, and maybe that's why I noticed this, or maybe it was just so starkly present that anyone might have noticed. In any case, what happened was, I went to this...would you call it like an expo?

Pete: Oh, okay. Like an industry event, or something.

Jen: Yeah. Where, it was focused on entrepreneurship. And there were all these booths set up with different vendors, offering different services to entrepreneurs. And one of the tables was a mentorship service for female entrepreneurs. So I'm just sort of like looking around at the various tables, picking up brochures and such, and a woman comes out from behind the female entrepreneurship mentorship table and says, "I'd love to tell you about what we do." And I'm like, "Great. Tell me about it." So she gives me, you know, a little elevator pitch. And then, she says, "And what do you do?" And I said, "I'm a Broadway acting coach." And literally, Pete, in this tone, she goes, "Ha-ha, how's that going?"

Pete: Oh my god. Oh my god, what? What?

Jen: And I said, "Quite frankly, it's going well."

Pete: Oh my gosh.

Jen: Oh my gosh.

Pete: Wow.

Jen: And then, she went on to ask me a couple more questions, which were all kind of demeaning, and like assumed that I didn't know my ass from my elbow and that I was sort of like a floundering bird who like maybe got pushed out of the nest too early or something. And finally, I was like, "Thanks so much for your information," and walked away. But as I was walking away, I was thinking, "You did not assume genius about me. And I might not claim genius about myself, but I need you to see that it's possible in me, if you are going to suggest that you would be my mentor."

Pete: Mentor. Oh, god.

Jen: What? Anyway, it was pretty wild.

Pete: I'm like, I feel my skin crawling. Oh my god, I'm having a visceral reaction to that. I have a few reactions, thoughts, other than just the fact that my whole body is convulsing. The first is, what I hear in that distinction is, it's almost like that person assumed they were the genius.

Jen: That's right.

Pete: As opposed to assuming that you had some genius. And I think that's a really different posture, as a mentor or a coach or, you know, a facilitator, or a teacher. If you assume you're the genius imparting all of this wisdom on anybody, then I don't think you're going to be anywhere near as effective, clearly. There are going to be so many missed connections, like you identified. And it's not a generous posture. It's not a posture rooted in service. Versus what you said, which is assuming genius in others, assuming genius in the people that you're coaching or teaching or talking to, which I think is actually a more curious posture and actually one that's more rooted in service. And as I'm saying this, I'm hearing people like Brené Brown and Simon Sinek and Seth Godin, that we talk about all the time. All of them, in some capacity, have said some version of when they're doing a talk, the thing they try and remind themselves of is, it's not about them.

Jen: Right.

Pete: It's not about me, the genius imparting wisdom. It's about the audience, and I'm here in service of them. And I think that I would draw a line between that and what you're saying, which is, I'm assuming the audience are geniuses in some capacity. And so, I'm here in service of that. Maybe I could open a door and turn on a light and help them see something differently, but I'm assuming they're already really, really excellent at a particular thing. Which I guess leads me to my other point, which feels...this probably sounds really obvious, but I just feel like saying that genius takes many forms.

Jen: Yes.

Pete: And I think, you know, even when I first hear you say "genius", I think of a very specific type of genius. But as we're talking more and more, I'm like, "Oh, of course. Genius is very different and very contextual. And everyone, in some capacity, has some version of genius, I think."

Jen: Yeah. So once upon a time, Pete (you may not remember this, but I remember this), we recorded an episode that made it to the cutting room floor, called Coaching Genius.

Pete: Oh, wow.

Jen: Which was specifically about a session I had had with my client, Will...who may be listening right now.

Pete: Hey, Will.

Jen: In which, he had this pretty wild idea he wanted to execute in an acting context. And I was like, "Well, give it a shot." And as soon as he started working, I realized that there was magic. There was genius. Like, sparks were going off all over the place. And I was like, "Oh my gosh. All I need to do right now is just get out of his way, because his genius is pouring out."

Pete: Yes.

Jen: "And all he needs from me is someone to say, 'This is the space for you to try this.' And that is my only role right now." And there are other times where I might be working, maybe even with that exact same client, where I'm like, "Oh, he actually needs me to guide him, to push him, to offer an idea." But in this particular case, it was just, "Get the hell out of his way."

Pete: I really wish listeners could see my notepad, because before, I actually lied. I said earlier, "I'm writing at the top of my notepad 'ASSUME GENIUS'." Prior to me writing that, I had written, "Philosophies of great coaching," which is what you said. And then, I'd answered like one version of that for me, and I wrote, "Get out of the way."

Jen: Ha! Right?

Pete: I literally have it in my notebook.

Jen: That's right.

Pete: So, I so agree with you. That one core tenant, I think, or philosophy of great coaching and teaching is getting out of the way.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: And you know, that probably doesn't mean literally. But I think what we're saying is, you're creating the space and not taking up more of it. It's, you're creating the space for the genius. Versus, "Prove to me that you're genius. I'm assuming you're not, because I'm the genius."

Jen: Right.

Pete: "Just follow my nine-step program, and you too could be a genius like me." You know? Like, just go away. Leave me alone. I'm so annoyed at this person.

Jen: Yeah. It really is an interesting power grab, I guess.

Pete: Hmm.

Jen: It felt like the sales tactic, in the particular pitch that was being tossed my way, was to make me feel stupid and small, so that I might pay her for her services.

Pete: Yeah, create a need that you didn't realize you had by belittling you.

Jen: And I imagine, Pete, that it is a pretty successful tactic.

Pete: Right. That's, yeah, that's the sad truth.

Jen: Maybe something we all need to look out for a little more.

Pete: I so agree. And so for me, the challenge, the idea, the opportunity becomes this generous posture, this posture of service, this posture of...like, not just in being a coach or in being a teacher. I think you could take this posture of assuming genius into conversations with friends, with colleagues, with strangers.

Jen: Absolutely.

Pete: "I am going to assume that you're a genius at something, and I really want to find out what it is and learn from you." That's a growth-minded way to show up in the world. Which, I think we could use more of. "What does this person have to teach me," is kind of the question in my head. Of like, if I meet someone, "What could this person teach me?"

Jen: I think it's also a really good parenting posture.

Pete: Right. Right. Alright, say more. I'm just taking some notes here. Say more.

Jen: Well, when my daughter was younger, three or four, I dragged her kicking and screaming to dance class. Because when I was a kid, that was my form of genius. So, I was really trying to impose that on her.

Pete: Woof.

Jen: And being like, "You will be a dancer."

Pete: "Because you'll love it, because I did."

Jen: Which, she did not love. And I had to kind of like mourn that for a moment, when I realized that was not what was going to happen. But it forced me to really start paying attention to the things she was interested in. And it turns out, she really is a genius when it comes to music and writing and poetry and all of this creative output. And I could have squashed that in her, if I had forced her to continue doing something that really was not meant for her.

Pete: So, I love that reflection. Because I, you know, have a nine-month-old son. And I'm going to try and remember that, because I could so see how that shows up. And I also love it because one of the other things I wrote...you know, as I shared earlier, when you said, "Philosophies of great coaching," I started like trying to rack my brain for, "What would I say mine are?" I mentioned one of them, you know, "Getting out of the way." The other one I wrote down is, "Meeting people where they're at."

Jen: Yep.

Pete: And I think what you're saying is actually some version of that. Which is, genius looks different depending on who you are. And so, as a coach, can you try and search for that, and find that, and meet them where they're at with that? That it might look like singing or music, in the context of your daughter, versus dancing, but that's not to say it's not genius. And so, can you meet them where they're at? i.e., Find out what they're interested in, find out what they're curious about, find out what they're excited about and what they're good at, and meet them there, and try and work with what they're already interested in / good at / keen to learn more about.

Jen: I'm feeling like many future episodes coming on.

Pete: I feel like in the philosophies of coaching, I'm just like, there's so many episodes. Truly.

Jen: I mean, I'm just in this headspace right now. Because I'm like, June 8th and 9th, I will share in a pretty packaged form, "These are the principles that I think make good coaching," and it'll be interesting to maybe unpack each one on future episodes. But I think your insight that they are not mutually exclusive, they all intermesh with each other in a certain way, is really fascinating to me. I can't wait to keep thinking about that this week.

Pete: Yeah, I don't even know how to separate some of them.

Jen: Right? One of the other ones, which I have stolen your wording for it but I realized that it is very much how I create my exercises, is, "Don't steal the revelation," which also is, "Assume that the genius in front of you is capable of having their aha moment. Get out of their way, so that they can find it."

Pete: Exactly. And I mean, talk about genius, I cannot take credit for any of those words put together. The genius behind that, that I heard it from, was Paul Jun, who taught me and many others (among many other things), one posture of a coach is to not steal the revelation. And I think you're right. Implicit in that is trust that they're smart enough to figure it out for themselves.

Jen: Exactly.

Pete: Well, my anger has subsided a little bit about that story you shared and the woman who assumed that she was the genius, and was able to take you under her wing and teach you all the amazing things that she apparently had to teach. Versus your posture, the more generous posture, the posture of service, which is to assume that the person that you're talking to is, in fact, the genius, and that your role is to meet that person where they're at, to try and get out of their way, and to try and help them get to where they're already going.

Jen: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.