The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 303 - Bare Minimum

Transcript:

Jen: Hi, Peter.

Pete: Hey, Jen.

Jen: Today, I wanted to share with you a pearl of wisdom that I was given from my fourteen-and-a-half-year-old daughter, the one and only Cate.

Pete: Nice.

Jen: Life lessons from Cate.

Pete: We've done this a few times, and they always end up being these amazing episodes where we're like, "God dammit, Cate, with your wisdom." I'm excited. Let's hear more from wisdom from Cate. This feels like a separate podcast we should create: Wisdom From Cate.

Jen: I know.

Pete: This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Pete: Alright, okay, what do you got for us?

Jen: Okay, so my daughter recently starred as the witch in her middle school's production of Into the Woods. Okay, she was so good. I was so proud of her. She sang beautifully. The acting was good. It was just...it was awesome. And after the fact, I can't even remember who we were talking to, but the person said, "Did you go to both shows?" Because they were doing two performances. And I was like, "Absolutely, I went to both shows. I bought my tickets on the day that they were available."

Pete: "Front row, baby."

Jen: "Darn right, I went to both shows." And I turned to Cate and I said something like, "Mom Of The Year award?" And she goes, "Bare minimum." [laughing] And I was like, "You know what? She's right." Like, they were only doing two performances. They rehearsed all semester. Right, bare minimum is I go see her in the show that she's been rehearsing all semester.

Pete: I love it. I love it, I love it. It feels like the ultimate humbling moment of parenting, where you go, "Surely, this deserves some accolades. Surely, this makes me the Parent Of The Year."

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: And they reflect back to you, "Well, I mean, you kind of just do the bare minimum."

Jen: And at that moment, I was like, "Touche." But I can't stop thinking about it, because it's such a good note.

Pete: Yeah, it feels good. I mean, bare minimum feels...I mean, I feel like I can just take anything you say and say, "I feel called out," but I kind of feel called out. Because the thing that this makes me think of (I guess this is based on what's been top of mind for me recently) is, what's the bare minimum amount of work required for one to maintain a business? Or what's the bare...and I'm saying "one", I'm sort of speaking about myself. But what's the bare minimum amount of revenue that you need to live the life you want to live? Or what's the bare minimum amount of clients that you want to have? And I guess I have a hard time defining it because I tell myself a story that I don't want to cap it. You know, I don't want to be like, "I'll just do the bare minimum. That's enough." I feel like there's maybe sort of the opposite of bare minimum is like, "What's the maximum? What's enough? How do you know when you've done too much? Or enough, I guess?"

Jen: Yeah, there's definitely a spectrum there. And you know what's funny is, I've been unpacking this in my mind. I'm like, "Okay, as a parent who supports and shows love to their child, do I ever want to just do the bare minimum?" And I'm like, "No. I don't want to do the bare minimum." But there are certain things where I'm like, "Yeah, I just want to do the bare minimum." Like, my relationship to email is a really good example. Like, I just want to do the bare minimum. Like, I'm only answering things that like, "The world is on fire, you have to answer this email." Which is why I have moved all of my clients out of my email inbox and into the studio platform. It's just, I'm so much better at communicating with them, because I just want to do the bare minimum with email. But like, with my creativity and with the work that I'm passionate about, I don't want to just do the bare minimum. I want to do more. I want to do the most.

Pete: I like this. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I like this flip of, I feel like it's looking at the bare minimum as a good thing in some contexts.

Jen: In some contexts, yes.

Pete: Which, it can be. Like I mean, you hear a lot of people talk about minimum viable product when it comes to testing products, and in services and startups and organizations where you create the minimum viable version of the thing so that you can test it, give it to some users or an audience and say, "What do you think of this thing," gather feedback, and make it better. In that case, doing the bare minimum is actually a good thing, because it means you don't over-invest time, energy, and resources into something that's not worth it.

Jen: Right.

Pete: And so yeah, whether it's email or I guess the example even that I used but looking at it as a positive, which is, "What's the bare minimum amount of clients that you might need or revenue you might need across a certain period to sustain the life you want to sustain? And does that then, once you hit that, does that enable you to take some time off and spend some time with the family, or whatever that is?" So actually, looking at the bare minimum as a positive (which is not necessarily what Cate was saying), versus like, when is it a good moment to go, "No, I definitely don't want to do the bare minimum." And maybe one has to do the bare minimum in certain contexts to be able to enable not doing the bare minimum in other contexts. You know?

Jen: Right.

Pete: Because we can't overachieve in every aspect of our life, sadly.

Jen: It's funny, because Cate's sense of humor...she's got a pretty wicked, sophisticated sense of humor. And I don't think that she was being negative. She was being funny, but she was also just like stating a fact.

Pete: Which is usually what really good humor is.

Jen: Right?

Pete: Just like such a relatable, "Oh yeah, good point. That's so painfully true."

Jen: It's funny because it's true, yeah. But I like the bare minimum call out as like a neutral shorthand. And I have found myself in situations with actors in the past where I've tried to like over-explain something. For example, if I'm working on a piece with an actor and then I ask them a question about the piece in its context, and their response is, "Well, I haven't had a chance to read the script yet," I might go into like an elaborate monologue about why I need you to read the script before we have a conversation about the play. But it would be so much easier if I could just say, "Bare minimum."

Pete: Right, right. "Read the script. Read the script."

Jen: Right? Bare minimum.

Pete: Yeah, I love it. It is such a provocative but really useful note.

Jen: Right? I know, it's like...it feels like a truth bomb.

Pete: Yeah, it really does.

Jen: And it also feels like useful protection against congratulating yourself or like patting yourself on the back for something that you've done that doesn't actually warrant those kinds of accolades. Like, I should not be giving people a gold star for reading their script.

Pete: Right. Right, right. And as someone who is part of the millennial generation, having received a few participation awards myself, I can tell you, I agree with you. They're not that helpful. It's not helpful to know that you participated in something, i.e. you showed up and did the bare minimum, I don't think. I don't think rewarding the bare minimum is always a good thing. I think sometimes, I'm sure there are moments where it makes sense. But yeah, there's a process or a set of criteria that one needs to not just meet but exceed in order to be awarded, I mean, in this case, the metaphorical gold star, as you're talking about. I agree.

Jen: Yeah. And then, I also see it as like a way to set a bar for oneself that might be a little higher than one might have set otherwise. Like for example, let's say I make an appointment to have a conversation with someone and there are things that I need to say in this conversation and that's the whole reason I made the appointment, and I'm feeling a certain way about it. Instead of saying to myself, like, "I really hope I find the guts to say what I need to say," I could say to myself, "Based on the reason I asked for this meeting, the bare minimum is for me to say what I need to say."

Pete: Mmm.

Jen: "Like, anything else is perhaps icing on the cake."

Pete: Right.

Jen: "But the bare minimum reason why I'm there is to say what I need to say."

Pete: Oh, I feel uncomfortable.

Jen: I know, I do too. I feel uncomfortable saying it.

Pete: You can convince yourself, "Oh, but I had a great conversation with this person, and built trust and connection, so it's okay that I didn't say the thing that I needed to say." It's like, "Well, actually, that was the bare minimum."

Jen: Right. That was the whole reason for the conversation.

Pete: That was the point of the thing. Ouch, ouch. Okay, I like this as a tool of definition, maybe. Like, I want to be able to define, in certain contexts, "What is the bare minimum?" So I think definition of what that is, in all contexts, is really helpful. And then, maybe the follow up question from that is, "Is that okay," or, "Is that enough?" Because like you said, sometimes you go, "Yeah. In this case, the bare minimum is all that needs to be done." And then in other contexts, it might be, "No. I want to do that and then some." I have this language that I use in my goal-setting spreadsheet. I guess once upon a time, I came up with this little goal-setting spreadsheet to track certain business initiatives that I have. Anyway, and I have...I don't call it the bare minimum, but I have a like, I call it "baseline".

Jen: Mmm.

Pete: Which, I guess I'm realizing right in this moment, is my version of the bare minimum. Baseline, I want to be able to achieve this or do this. Then, I have this middle band, which I call like a "great result". And so, that's like my next step up. But then, I have this one that I always love, because I always end up striving for this one (because it's what I do), and it's called a "cheeky goal".

Jen: Ah, yes.

Pete: And a cheeky goal is like, we've talked about audacious goals in the past, of like, "Can you set a goal for yourself that is a little bit ridiculous, a little bit audacious, a little bit obnoxious, makes you a bit nervous?" And I've called those "cheeky goals", where it's like, "That would be a bit cheeky, if I managed to pull that off. Like, that would require some serious, you know, level up and time investment and energy investment." So I just realized that I have this like three-pronged definition that I use in certain contexts, not in all. And so, yeah, maybe a cheeky goal is sort of the opposite of a bare minimum, or the next layer up from a bare minimum.

Jen: Oooh, I like that. I like that a lot.

Pete: Like in your example, "Okay, so the bare minimum is to say the thing I need to say with this person. That would be like, I've got to say my words." The cheeky goal would be, "For us to then take that, they receive it really well, and then we end up building all this amazing rapport and are able to have a new opportunity conversation that I never would have expected."

Jen: Right. Right, right, right.

Pete: That would be cool.

Jen: I really like that. I like that maybe the opposite of "bare minimum" is "cheeky maximum".

Pete: Exactly. Exactly. "Cheeky maximum" is such a better way of putting it.

Jen: Oh my gosh, I love that.

Pete: Because, you know, you could say, "The maximum is this." It's like, what if...you know, often people set a goal, and it's a little bit undercooked because they don't want to feel like an imposter, "I don't want to overstate what I could do or want to do?" Whereas if you add the word "cheeky" to it, it's a bit like, "Oh, that's a bit cheeky. Imagine if I did that."

Jen: I really love that word, yes.

Pete: Hmm.

Jen: You know, I do these thirty-minute strategy sessions with my clients. And I always open the session with this same exact prompt, where I say, "Please fill in the blank, 'This session will be a success if...'".

Pete: Nice.

Jen: And then, they say what it is. And what's really interesting is most of the time, they fill in the blank with what I would call the bare minimum, because they're aware that we only have thirty minutes. And so, once we hit the thing that they said would make the meeting a success, everything after that is icing on the cake. Everything after that becomes bonus material. So, it's actually really helpful. I never really thought of it as like, "What is the bare minimum you want to get out of this meeting?" But now that I'm thinking about it, that is pretty much what ends up happening. I say, "These thirty minutes will be a success if...," and they're like, "If I can get clear on one action step I want to take after this." And I'm like, "Great. Bare minimum, then."

Pete: Totally.

Jen: I'm now reframing that in my head, that that's essentially what we're agreeing on.

Pete: Yeah, I love that. And it's also, in your case, as the coach running those sessions, it gives you a really clear goalpost to aim towards.

Jen: Absolutely.

Pete: And probably, I'm sure in your head (knowing you), you're like, "Oh, I can do that and then some. I can get to my cheeky goal here."

Jen: It is. I'm trying to think of if I have ever in the last couple of weeks (I'm doing a ton of these right now), have I said to anyone after they filled in the blank, "There's no way we're going to get to that." No. I was going to say rare to never, but right now I'm going to say never. It has never happened.

Pete: Yeah. Okay, the other application that I've just been thinking about, on the fly, is based on what you just said around communication. So I've been running a number of workshops over the last, I guess, eighteen months, with a couple of giant organizations, and many many teams within those organizations. One of the focuses of one of the workshops, of which there are quite a few, is around, "How do we be more intentional with the way we communicate?" And (surprisingly, to our longtime listeners) that involves asking questions in this workshop like, "Who's it for," and, "What's it for," and, "What am I trying to communicate," and, "What does success look like," and, "What are the stories I might tell to enable me to get there?" I've been trying to step leaders through this series of intentional questions that enable you to define what it is you're actually trying to communicate. And I'm realizing that I think I want to add a prompt around, "When you're constructing this piece of communication, which could be a meeting request, it could be an email, it could be a presentation itself, it could be a talk you need to give, it could be a client deck, like whatever it is, I often ask the question of like, 'What does success look like with this particular thing? And can you write that in one sentence?'" You often talk about the back of a napkin, "Can you summarize on the back of a napkin?" You know, sometimes people might grapple with that and go, "Oh, I ended up writing seven sentences. It's a really big napkin." And you're like, "Yeah...okay, great." But what about, "What's the bare minimum?"

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: You know, "If you could define the bare minimum of this piece of communication, what is it actually that you're hoping to achieve?" It feels clarifying.

Jen: It really does.

Pete: Like, it forces clarity. I love it. I'm all about forcing clarity. This is good. This is good. "What is the bare minimum?" Because certainly in the corporate context, I mean, it's either, perhaps they haven't quite thought about it because they don't have time because everyone's sprinting around madly, or also, they go, "Oh, it's to do these twelve things. I need to get Jen across the line. But I also need to give some feedback to Peter. And then, I'm also hoping that I can enroll those two to have a difficult conversation in the moment about this." And you're like, "Woah, you're trying to do a lot in a thirty-minute meeting." Like, that's alot.

Jen: Right. That is a lot.

Pete: That's a lot. They might be separate conversations completely. In fact, they probably are. So, "What's the bare minimum?" I love it. Mmm, mmm, Cate Shanahan.

Jen: I know, isn't she the best?

Pete: Yeah, she is. She is, she is.

Jen: You know, I spent many years worrying about what the teenage years were going to look like, Pete. And let me tell you, they're my favorite years.

Pete: That's so cool.

Jen: She's like a really cool person with a lot of interesting things to say.

Pete: It's the best. I mean, I also just love...I don't know, I feel like this is typical of her sharp witty generation that instead of saying it as a question or a longer sentence, it's literally just as two words: bare minimum.

Jen: Yep.

Pete: You know, like she used the bare minimum amount of words to get the same impact, which I just think is so good.

Jen: It's so meta.

Pete: Well, bare minimum. And that is The Long and The Short Of It.