The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 326 - Bite-Sized

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: Hello, Jen.

Jen: I recently encountered an interesting phenomenon with a bunch of my clients that I want to talk to you about. And it is essentially, that those who are able to make something bite-sized are also the ones who are able to make something super-sized.

Pete: Alright, wow. I had no idea where this was going, and I feel like I still don't. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Pete: Side-bar: This could also be, for the listeners, Jen and I have had absolutely no preamble because we're on a tight deadline. Usually, we have a little patter, like, "Hey, Jen, how's your day been? What's been happening? Let's catch up." This was like, "Record. Go. Now."

Jen: Right. Okay, so we'll see how this goes.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: So okay, here's the context. I have been doing ten-minute quick-fire coaching sessions with a large number of my clients.

Pete: Oh my god. Wait, wait, wait, I'm obsessed with this idea already. Tell me more.

Jen: Okay. So basically what happened is, I gave them a challenge that if they helped me expand the Career Collective by a certain amount of people in a certain amount of time, I would give everyone who is currently in the Career Collective a quick-fire coaching session.

Pete: So generous. I love it.

Jen: It is a large number of people, Pete. And they did it, so I'm doing it. And I'm having such a great time doing it. I love it. But essentially, a quick-fire coaching with me is a ten-minute session.

Pete: This is amazing...ten minutes.

Jen: So when they sign up for their quick-fire coaching slot, there's a form that comes up that says, "What is the one thing you are hoping to accomplish in these ten minutes?"

Pete: Nice.

Jen: And what has been really interesting is to see the wide range of what people consider one thing. So this is where I get to the bite-size, right?

Pete: Yes.

Jen: So in some cases, a person might say, "The one thing I want to get out of this ten-minute session...," you know I'm exaggerating severely right now, but it's like, "...a ten-year strategic plan."

Pete: That's what I was thinking.

Jen: And someone else will say, "I want to spend the ten minutes picking the one headshot from my recent photo session."

Pete: Right, like one super specific thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's fascinating.

Jen: And so, with the folks who offered something up that was really too much for ten minutes, I emailed them and said, "Let's work to whittle this down. Think about, what is the one thing that in ten minutes we could actually make some progress on or you could get some answers to," or whatever it was. And some of them were really able to hear that feedback and be like, "Right. It's ten minutes. Like, what can I actually accomplish in ten minutes?" And some of them really had a hard time and were like, "Okay. Well, how about a nine-year strategic plan?" You know? (I'm exaggerating.)

Pete: One per minute, plus a little buffer. Yeah.

Jen: But what has been really fascinating is, I am able to see the correlation...because I'm working with so many people, and I really do have the inside scoop on how they're approaching their careers. I'm able to see the correlation between the people who are able to break things down into really small bite-sized chunks, and how they are able to take all those bite-sized chunks and turn them into something really massive for themselves in terms of progress, and goals, and forward motion, and all of that good stuff. And the ones who have trouble articulating the smaller bite-sized pieces are the ones who are having trouble gaining traction.

Pete: Yeah. Alright, this is juicy.

Jen: Isn't it?

Pete: I have so many different unrelated thoughts. Let me just, I'm just going to throw a couple out there, and maybe we can grab the one that makes the most sense. The first is just an observation on how cool this idea of a ten-minute coaching is. You reminded me of one of the coolest aspects of being a coach and a head coach of the altMBA, which is an online leadership program that I've mentioned a thousand times on this podcast. But one of the coolest things we did was twenty-five-minute, twenty-minute, sometimes thirty-minute coachings. And at the time, we thought we were like cutting edge, breaking the ground. I mean, we kind of were because it was only thirty minutes and like, how could you possibly get any value out of a thirty minute coaching? How are you going to show up? How are you going to ask questions? What are you going to do to set them up for success? So I just firstly love that you've taken that and gone, "No, no, no, no, no. How about I divide that by three? How about I give you ten minutes? And how can you deliver immense value and clarity in ten minutes?" It's just, it's such a brilliant Jen Waldman thing to do. And one of the cool things I heard that you do as part of this is, yes, it's a ten-minute coaching, but how much work did the person spend thinking about their answer to your primer, your question?

Jen: Right.

Pete: Which is like, what's the most helpful thing for you to get out of this, the number one most helpful thing? I suspect those that are really clear and able to get to the micro probably spent a little longer and had a bit more structured thought around that pre-work. Which means, yes, it's a ten-minute coaching, but actually, maybe it was a two-hour exercise or a sixty-minute exercise for them.

Jen: That's right.

Pete: So, that's just genius. And that, I mean, that sent me down a whole tangent of like thinking about The Art of Gathering by Priya Parker, where she talks about the fact that the event or a gathering doesn't actually start when the gathering starts. It starts like the moment the invitation goes out.

Jen: Mmm-hmm.

Pete: And I feel like you've really embraced a version of that. That was a whole bunch of thoughts. The other one (real quick) that just popped into my mind is one of those quotes that gets attributed to like forty-five different people, so I'll see if I can dig up the original and put it in the Box O' Goodies. But it's, my paraphrased version based on my memory is, "I would have written you a shorter letter, but I didn't have time."

Jen: Yes, that's right.

Pete: And I just love it. Because it's like, it's so much easier (like I'm doing now) for us to ramble and for us to talk in long-winded and perhaps non-specific ways, as opposed to talking really succinctly about super specific things.

Jen: Yes.

Pete: Blah.

Jen: Yes, yes, yes.

Pete: There's my vomit. Also, it's kind of funny that you've been doing these ten-minute coachings with very little context, and that's kind of how we started this podcast, was like, "Press record. We have twenty minutes. Go."

Jen: Truly. Also Pete, my ten-minute quick-fire coachings are inspired by you.

Pete: Oh...what?

Jen: Because you and I had a quick-fire coaching when I was in the altMBA. It was definitely not thirty minutes.

Pete: It was twenty. I think it was twenty.

Jen: Maybe it was twenty, maybe it was fifteen. It was short.

Pete: Hmm. Yeah, it was.

Jen: And because of that constraint, there was so much juice in that coaching. It really changed so much about how I was operating, how I was thinking. So when I thought about, "What will I do for these people if they're able to pull off this amazing feat," it was like, "Oh, the quick-fire coaching." Because if you go in there knowing what you want to ask, like, you will get what you came for.

Pete: Right. Because, you did that. You came to me and said, "This is the thing I want you to help me with."

Jen: Yes, that's right. That's right. And the other thing is, I start all the coachings by getting them to reiterate what we're there to do. So I say, "These ten minutes will be a success if ...," and then, they fill in the blank.

Pete: So good.

Jen: And so, we know exactly what success looks like. And at the end of the call, I can say, "Did we get what we came here for?" It's just a great format, something I want to figure out how to keep in my life because I find it personally so creative and fulfilling to get to tackle one very specific thing very quickly.

Pete: I agree. And you're reminding me of that format that I'd apparently forgotten. I mean, even the twenty-minute format that we used to do in the altMBA, that you mentioned. And it's funny, like literally last week, I was putting together a proposal for this executive team who want to expand this leadership program to about forty people. I was like, "I guess I could do forty one-on-ones in a quarter. Like, I could probably do forty one-on-ones a couple times a year, like maybe three times a year. That's forty hours. It's, I mean, that's quite a bit at work. But like, I could make it happen." But, I mean, I could totally just do, "Let's do twenty minutes."

Jen: Yes.

Pete: And change that constraint for me and for them, which makes it more approachable for both of us, really. So yes, I'm inspired and fired up about this format again.

Jen: Yeah, twenty minutes of active time with you, but pre-work.

Pete: Right, exactly. Yes. Yes, yes, yes.

Jen: So I've been thinking about, what are some other ways I've seen the bite-size turn into something super-sized? And two specific examples came to mind. The first is, I don't know if I've mentioned this on the show before, but I did spend a little bit of time teaching in China, in Shanghai.

Pete: I don't even know if I knew this. What?

Jen: Yeah, and it was really cool. And I had a translator the whole time. Some of my students spoke English, but most of them did not. And I definitely do not speak Mandarin at all, so I had a translator. And when you are working with a translator, if you're long-winded, the person who is listening has to wait twice as long for the information.

Pete: Right.

Jen: Right? So everything I say has to be said twice.

Pete: That's got to be like a secret magical way to be more succinct.

Jen: Absolutely. So when I first got there, I was very long-winded.

Pete: And then, you have to hear it back.

Jen: I told this long story about this experience I had doing Wicked on Broadway. And then, I sat back, and the translator said a bunch of things. And I just felt the energy getting sucked out of the room. And then, I realized as the people were asking me questions, they did not understand a single thing that I said because I made the translator wait so long to translate it, that it really got lost in translation.

Pete: They forgot the story, and the punchline, and everything. That's hilarious.

Jen: Oh my gosh, Pete. So anyway, as I worked there, I got better and better about becoming more succinct, more concise, and giving them bite-size bits of information. Which, of course, on their end, made their work exponentially better, quicker.

Pete: Right. Oh, that's hilarious. I'm obsessed with this. One of the things we talked about very briefly in a recent episode was how I shared thirteen practices for more effective communication. And one of them, I think it was number two, "Concise is nice," which is something I'm obsessed with. I think it fits this. And I guess my question for you...I have my own assertion on this, I just want to clarify. Do you think the bite-size comes first, or the super-size comes first? Or is it not important?

Jen: Well, I think it depends who you are.

Pete: Okay. Yeah.

Jen: Like for me, the super-size comes first. And then, I zoom into the very bite-size. But in observing you, sometimes you work the other way.

Pete: I don't know. I was going to say, I feel like you need the long-winded, super-sized version first. But I was questioning that thought as I was saying it. I feel like you need it. I mean, like that funny quote suggests, you start with the long letter, and then, if I have time, I'll make it a shorter letter. Like, I feel like there's a verbose version of the thing we're trying to explain. And then, there's a, "Let me dial this back to its actual essence."

Jen: Yeah. And also, there's a bigger, more zoomed out version of the thing we're trying to do. I mean, like at the end of the year, which we're about to be at, I do this end-of-year review, Name It To Claim It, which is open for people who want to come and participate. Maybe I'll drop the link in the Box O' Goodies. Anyway, we do this exercise where we zoom out many years, like, "Where do you see yourself five years from now?"

Pete: Scary.

Jen: Right?

Pete: That's scary, but fun.

Jen: And then, based on that, "What does that mean for the next month? What are your priorities for the next month?"

Pete: Yeah, nice.

Jen: "For the next year? For the next two years?" You know?

Pete: Yeah. And then...I don't know if I'm coaching myself or thinking out loud or doing both, I guess I'm doing both at once. I feel like then, in getting the clarity on the bite-size, it then makes the super-size better as well, or more specific, or more likely to happen. Like, they feed each other in a way.

Jen: Yes. It almost feels like...I don't know, I talk about this with my clients a lot. Some of them have told me they have "dream roles" that they want to play, and I ask them if they can turn them into "goal roles" instead.

Pete: Oh, nice. Yeah.

Jen: Because the second you stop dreaming about it and you're like, "Oh, this is a goal," you become so much more practical and realistic about how you're going to accomplish it.

Pete: Yeah. I have a very specific example, that I'm kind of dancing around, that happened to me this year, which I'll share. Which is...how do I make this succinct? Which is, I've been running a series of workshops for a very large Australian organization, a bunch of Australian organizations, and they're often structured or formatted something like three half-days, or three two-hours, or maybe one or two giant days. And they're very much, I would say probably that these are more of the super-sized version of how I've been thinking about leading and having hard conversations or communicating effectively. For example, there's a bunch of different topics. And it's really great in small groups, usually about twenty at a time. And that's deliberate, because then, I can coach, and we can give each other feedback, and blah, blah, blah, blah. At the start of this year, someone gave me the opportunity or presented me with the challenge of, "What might a bite-size, scalable version of this look like? Can you chunk down your long-ish workshops into practical, digestible essentially videos, so we can make a video course out of some of these learnings for a very different group of people? People that are not having access to live in-person workshops because of the constraints of an organization." So essentially, what I did with a few of my workshops is, I created the bite-sized versions of these super-sized workshops. Both of them are less than fifty minutes and more than ten videos. So they're between ten to fifteen videos, but all videos are less than five minutes, super bite-sized. And one of the tests we did was send it to a bunch of people who have taken the super-sized version. And I don't know if this was a compliment or an insult, but the feedback was, "I got the same amount of value out of the bite-sized pre-recorded as I did in the super-sized version. Albeit, I didn't get to connect with peers, which is a really important aspect of in-person." So I was like, I think that's a compliment. But also, a very real example of how I started with super-size, and then, I brought it to bite-size. And you can still deliver a similar amount of value.

Jen: Isn't it amazing?

Pete: What a long-winded story. That's the super-sized version of that story, geeze.

Jen: That's the whole idea behind micro-learning, which, you know, was a little catchphrase that got really popular. But it's basically bite-size modules.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: So there was one other example I wanted to share from a book that I have loved for a long time, called Rethinking Positive Thinking, which was written by Gabrielle Etienne. Anyway, it's a really interesting book. But she shares this framework, which maybe I shared on an episode before, called WOOP,

Pete: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jen: Wish. Outcome. Obstacle. Plan.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: Okay. So I won't fall down that rabbit hole, except to say that the framework is wish, outcome, obstacle, plan, and it's based on many years of research about how people actually achieve their aims. And that, you need to know your wish. You need to understand what it will do for you, what is the outcome? What is in your way, which is obstacle. And what is your plan when you encounter said obstacle? So anyway, she developed an app called WOOP My Life.

Pete: Yes.

Jen: And essentially, the app takes you through the steps of creating your WOOP. So it'll say, you know, "What is your wish?" And you type in all the things about your wish, and you're like, "Oh, my wish. It's so clear to me." And then, the app will say, "Now, say that in seven words." And like, you can't go onto the next screen until you have distilled it down into its essence.

Pete: Nice.

Jen: And I just find when it comes to setting aims and goal setting, the more specific you can be and the more bite-sized, ultimately, the more progress and the more super-sized your momentum will become.

Pete: Okay. So naturally, I'm forcing myself to try and summarize this brilliant idea of yours that we spent twenty minutes talking about into a bite-sized catchphrase.

Jen: How meta.

Pete: I guess I'll share a couple that we've shared before, that I think are still relevant. And that is that, when it comes to communicating, concise is nice and brevity is beautiful.

Jen: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.