The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 334 - Push-Ups

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: Hello, Jen.

Jen: Well, I was looking through our archive today.

Pete: Okay...

Jen: And I am shocked to learn that we have not ever recorded an episode on the following topic...prepare yourself.

Pete: Drum roll, drum roll. This is a fun way that we've started many podcasts recently. What's the topic?

Jen: The topic is: Push-ups.

Pete: What? Why would we have ever recorded a topic on push-ups? This feels like it might be similar to your running metaphors. I am curious. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Pete: Push-ups. What are you talking about?

Jen: Push-ups.

Pete: I was like, "What is it, creativity? What else could it be? What else haven't we recorded an episode about?"

Jen: No, it's push-ups.

Pete: Push-ups.

Jen: Okay, so here's the story. Bear with me, listeners.

Pete: I'm ready.

Jen: My whole life, I have lamented the fact that I "have no upper body strength". I was the kid in sixth grade gym who couldn't do a pull-up. Like, it's just never been my thing.

Pete: Just hanging from the bar, flailing around.

Jen: Oh my gosh, that's just so hard. Anyway, as I've mentioned many times on this show, I work out at a place called Mark Fisher Fitness, and I love it so much, and it's wonderful. And I've been there now over ten years.

Pete: Wild.

Jen: And in those ten years, I have rarely (and by rarely, I mean like probably less than 1% of the time) done my push-ups from my toes. I always dropped my knees.

Pete: Totally fair. That's fine.

Jen: Right? Because I'm like, "I do not have upper body strength." Anyway, two months ago, I completed a round of their workout program. And I got to do my one-on-one exit coaching with one of the coaches, who was like, "You know what you should do, Jen? You should take the small group private training, where you lift really heavy weights." And I was like, "No, I shouldn't. I'm not strong enough to do that yet."

Pete: Right.

Jen: And she was like, "I think you're thinking of this backwards."

Pete: Like, the way you get strong is to take the class.

Jen: Right. And I was like, "I don't know." And she goes, "You know what we're going to do? I'm going to add three private trainings to your account, and we can test this hypothesis of yours."

Pete: Alright.

Jen: And I was like, "Okay." So for the last couple weeks, I've been doing the small group training. And Pete, today, I did 100% of my push-ups from my toes.

Pete: Oh my god, what? Wait, wait, wait, that was such a big transition. I was waiting for like, "I did my first ever push-up." You just went straight to, "I did 100%."

Jen: It was kind of crazy. So by lifting the heavy weights that I said I couldn't lift, it suddenly sent me, like with a jet pack on my back, to the world of toes push-ups. And I was like, "Point taken, coach." I said I'm not strong enough, so I kept myself from getting stronger. And the truth is, I didn't need to wait years to build up the strength. Like, I was right on the cusp of having the strength. I just needed that little push over the edge. And like, suddenly, I go to the workout class now and I do all of the sets of push-ups from my toes. I mean, it's hard, but it's like doable.

Pete: Right.

Jen: So Pete, I see you connecting the dots. Help me.

Pete: Well, I just, I love it from so many angles. Firstly, I've nerded out on like strength training many times before. And like, so hearing you share that story is just a fun example of how important and beneficial strength training can be for so many reasons. But the thing that comes to mind for me is probably, just based on where I'm at at the moment, is this idea of learning a new skill as an adult.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: Or the flip side of convincing yourself you can't learn a new skill because you're an adult, or because of x, y, z reasons. And I watch my eighteen-month-old son, at the moment, try and learn new skills all day, every day. And I have been pondering to myself or thinking to myself, "Isn't it funny how you, Peter, don't try new things anywhere nearly as often as Ollie does, for example?" And I think it's because of stories like you just told, that I tell myself or we tell ourselves, like, "I would love to one day do a push-up, but I can't because I'm not strong enough, and so I'll just never do it."

Jen: Yep.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: The thing that has just been blowing my mind about it, last April...it's February now. Last April, I made this commitment that I was going to focus on my push-ups. And I would do like one from my toes in a class. And then, like the next month, I'd do two. But then, I did the small group training that I said I was too weak to do. Then, it was just like lightning fast, the growth. It was unbelievable.

Pete: Hmm.

Jen: Anyways, the thing that blows my mind, Pete, is in my fantasy version of this, I was on one side of the Grand Canyon and push-ups on my toes were on the other side of the Grand Canyon.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: But in reality, it was like a one foot step.

Pete: Mmm.

Jen: And I just needed someone to help me cover that small amount of ground, in order to realize what I was capable of. So it sort of made my brain go crazy, because I'm like, "Well, where else am I that close, but I have no idea that I'm that close?"

Pete: Right. Is there a way to think about this, for you being the person that helps someone else realize that it's not a Grand Canyon, it's actually a small step? Like, you must do this for your clients all the time.

Jen: All day, every day. All day, every day. Of course, it's easier to do it for other people.

Pete: Right.

Jen: And what was, I think, really helpful in this particular instance is I had a very tangible thing by which to measure my progress. It was like, "I'm either doing push-ups from my toes, or I'm not."

Pete: Mmm, yeah. Yeah, it's very black and white in that sense, I think I'm trying too hard to think about all the ways that this provides a metaphor. But in particular, I'm just wondering, how do I, how do we, how might we, how can we figure out what those things are, that are actually a lot closer to us achieving than we realize? And I just wonder if there's a way...like there's obviously a learning in here, in trusting expertise and getting certain coaches or mentors or strength professionals to help us with certain things. Strength in this case, but like, it could be anything in other cases. So I'm just like, what do we do about this great insight?

Jen: I don't know the answer. But I'll give you an example that I come across often in my work, and maybe that will help us land on something.

Pete: Okay.

Jen: I will meet with a client who says something like, "Well, my ultimate goal is to have a sustainable career on Broadway. But first, I need to do ensemble work in the regions. And then, I need to play roles in the regions. And then, I need to do ensemble work on tour. And then, I need to understudy. And then, I need to play a role. And then, I will get the chance to possibly do what it is I want to do on Broadway." And I'm like, "Or you could reach out and ask for that Broadway audition, and just build yourself the trampoline instead of trying to climb a ladder that doesn't exist."

Pete: Mmm.

Jen: And I feel like this is kind of similar to what I did to myself in terms of the push-ups, where it was like, "Well, if I want to get to being able to do, you know, all of my push-ups from my toes, first, I need to do this. And then, I need to do that. Then, I will have earned the right to the private training."

Pete: Right.

Jen: "And then, I will be qualified to attempt a push-up from my toes."

Pete: Yeah, that's so funny. It's like we make up rules or steps without validating them.

Jen: Correct.

Pete: We just create this list of, "Here are all the things, based on my limited knowledge of strength training," in this example, "or my limited knowledge of how to build a career, this is definitely the only step-by-step way one could do that," without validating it, or scrutinizing it, or challenging, or checking it in any way.

Jen: This reminds me of a framework you shared, oh gosh, it probably was six months ago. And frankly, I don't remember the title of the episode. If I find it, I'll drop it in the Box O' Goodies. It was assets, boundaries, narratives.

Pete: Mmm-hmm. Yep, the ABN.

Jen: Okay. So I guess, in this case, my asset was the gym and my access to the trainers. But the boundary that I placed on it was my own strength limitations, or my...I wouldn't even call it limitations...my strength.

Pete: Right.

Jen: And so, the narrative was, "So therefore, you don't get to work out with the strong people."

Pete: Right. Versus leveraging the asset of the coaches to challenge that boundary, and then, challenge that narrative.

Jen: Right. Okay. So using that framework, is there some way we can identify for ourselves, where our narrative is just a load of bullshit?

Pete: Right. And where our narrative even comes from? Because I think in your example, and I know many exampleshistorically, the narrative comes perhaps from the boundary.

Jen: Wait. Say more, say more.

Pete: I think that we create narratives more from a place of boundaries or limitations, than we do from a place of assets or strengths.

Jen: Mmm.

Pete: And I've seen this play out so many times. In fact, when I've done a workshop where I've had leaders or teams write down a list of assets that they have at their disposal, and then, we go on to do the boundaries and the narratives, I've had the reflection back to just go, "You know what? Just looking and realizing that I have this many assets is enough. That's the unlock, is to go, 'Oh wow, I do actually have access to coaches, in this case, who are qualified as strength experts to help me challenge certain assumptions.'" Just to recognize what assets you actually have, I think, is like a huge advantage.

Jen: Yeah. So bringing it back to my hypothetical client, who has listed all of these unnecessary steps that they think they have to take in order to achieve the thing that they are currently ready for.

Pete: Right.

Jen: The asset is their skill, their talent, their ability to compose a thoughtful reach out and to send it.

Pete: Right.

Jen: And help me take this through the "B" and the "N".

Pete: Well, I think the boundary that's being placed on this person is the story, probably, that in order to be the kind of person who would get a reply or response from such a reach out, they need to validate certain things or do certain activities to justify such a thing. So it's like, we created all these steps because of the boundaries. It's almost like imposter syndrome is the boundary.

Jen: Okay, so I think...I'm trying to sketch this out in my head. In this case, the person's asset is the same, their skill, their talent, their ability to communicate and thoughtfully put their work into the world.

Pete: Yes.

Jen: The narrative before was, "You have to wait your turn," and therefore, the boundary became this perceived line of succession. And if you change the narrative to, "I'm ready now," then, the boundary is your imposter syndrome.

Pete: Right.

Jen: Which, you maybe have Pete's TED talk to watch, to learn the imposter two-step and then move forward.

Pete: Or the other way around, too, which is, if you don't go straight to that narrative. The thing I love about that activity is not just, "Which things can I leverage," like, "Oh, I've actually got assets that I could leverage." But also, "Which things can I ease?" And I think the boundary is often the thing we can ease. I could ease the emphasis I'm putting on these steps, or this story about me not being qualified. And as a thought experiment, what happens if I do? "Oh, if I do ease that story that I tell myself about my boundary, I guess I could just do the reach out, because the asset is still the same."

Jen: Right.

Pete: So it's a leverage and an ease, is how I think about it, to hopefully create momentum or action.

Jen: Mmm-hmm. Interesting.

Pete: So I've been trying to sketch up one or just think about one that might relate to leadership, for example. And this is perhaps too macro, but I'm just going to throw it out there anyway.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: I hear, so often, stories from people who have been put into senior leadership positions that they don't feel like they've followed the forty-five steps required in order to be labeled a leader. And so, they'll either push back on the idea of it or just feel like a complete fraud about it, like they'll be the equivalent of you going, "I can't do a push-up," and be like, "I don't know how to lead a team." And so, this idea of, how can you break it down? How can you realize you're on the, to your point earlier, you're actually a step or two away from being the leader or doing the push-up? And what's that step that's required? And I think that if you take something like leadership, for example, and you break it down to, "Well, okay, go back to assets, boundaries, and narratives. So the boundary you have is, you need a certain amount of experience or understanding or books that you've consumed in order to be qualified or have someone qualify you as a leader. But the assets that you probably already have access to are your ability to ask questions and your ability to create a vision or direction for a group of people. That's usually why you've been put into a leadership position. And so, if you just focus on those two things, then all of a sudden, what you can realize is you are a leader, because you can create a vision and you can ask people really curious questions that enable them to enroll in that vision."

Jen: Mmm. It's making me think about what this like emotional component is.

Pete: Hmm.

Jen: Because I'm looking at other areas of my life, Pete, like coaching and teaching, for example. It never once occurred to me that I was not allowed to coach or teach because I didn't have a degree or wasn't "trained" in it, because my asset is my instinct, and my ability to connect the dots and read people. So in that realm, I had not talked myself into this sort of emotional state of not deserving it or like not being good enough. And it's just so odd to me that with something I literally do not care about (like, I don't care about push-ups), I had emotionally convinced myself, somehow, that I was like too below-average or not worthy of this thing that I don't even really care about that much. I care about my health. But like, it's a push-up. So I don't even know what to make of that, except to say that I see myself on two extreme ends of the spectrum there, and that is interesting.

Pete: I have to validate where this came from, this quote. (And I will do so, and put it in the Box O' Goodies.) But the thing that comes to mind for me is, "Don't believe everything you think."

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: I love that. Because we can take the things that go through our brain as gospel truths, that are universal. And if that is true, in your example, the gospel truth that you told yourself is that you'll never be able to do a push-up. And so, the challenging of that is this idea that, "Maybe the thing that I'm thinking about this needs to be challenged." Which, that quote doesn't mean never believe anything that crosses your mind, obviously. But it's a way to, I think, untangle the fact that sometimes the stories we tell ourselves are the things that get in the way from us creating progress.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: Not all the time. Because in your example, actually, the thing that you didn't question was your ability to coach and help people. And so, you never thought that you weren't able to do that, so there was nothing to challenge there. But sometimes in certain contexts for whatever it is, I'm sure there are very good reasons we create these stories and these scripts in our head, and then believe them to be true without challenging them at all, like, "I'll never do a push-up."

Jen: Mmm, right.

Pete: So in my mind, one of the things I take from this is, if and when I find myself saying, "I can't, because...," to go back to one of our frameworks from one of our favorite books, from A Beautiful Constraint, "can, if" versus "can't, because". "I can't do a push-up, because of x, y, and z," it's about catching myself when I have that script or that response, and challenging it.

Jen: Mmm.

Pete: And I won't always be challenged through the perspective of, "Oh no, I definitely can." But what you might discover is there are certain things that you're restricting yourself from doing, that you could do if you committed to doing steps A and B, in your case, going to the strength class rather than waiting.

Jen: Love that. So we take "can't, because" and turn it into "can, if".

Pete: That's right. Now, sometimes the thing on the other side of the "can, if" will be so unrealistic that you'll go, "No, I definitely still can't, because I don't have access to all of those things," and that's okay. The point is to get into the habit of challenging it and thinking more expansively about the limiting stories that we're telling ourselves.

Jen: So let me run this by you, and you tell me if I got it.

Pete: Okay.

Jen: I can't do a push-up, because in sixth grade, I couldn't do a push up," turns into, "I can do a push-up, if I allow these expert trainers to help me get stronger."

Pete: You nailed it. And that is The Long and The Short Of It.