The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 340 - Empty Can

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, Pete.

Pete: Hello, Jen.

Jen: I come to you today with a mystery to be solved.

Pete: Oh, here we go. Mysteries.

Jen: Yes. Today's mystery is The Case of The Empty Can.

Pete: The Case of The Empty Can. Are we turning this into a true crime podcast all of a sudden? I love the sound of this, The Case of The Missing Can.

Jen: No, The Empty Can. It's not missing. It's there. It's just empty.

Pete: You've got to listen, Pete. The Case of The Empty Can. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Jen: Okay, Pete, here's the mystery. Our can is empty for the first time in six years, legitimately empty. So what that means, Pete and listeners, is that if we don't record this podcast today, there will be no podcast coming out this week. Because you took a two-week holiday, I'm on a two-week holiday at the moment, and even though our can was nice and built up, it is now literally empty. So, The Case of The Missing Can is-

Pete: The Empty Can. It's an empty can, it's not missing.

Jen: Shoot. So The Case of The Empty Can is, why is it, Pete, that when we have an empty can, we are able to absolutely guarantee ourselves that a podcast is coming out this week? There is no world in which there is not a podcast coming out this week. And yet, with other proverbial empty cans in life, sometimes we just let the can be empty, even if it's not in our best interest. That is mysterious to me.

Pete: That is mysterious. Firstly, I don't know if we've ever cut it this fine before. Have we?

Jen: Never. No, this is as close as we've ever come to having nothing to publish.

Pete: To having to like, you know, republish one of our favorite episodes. Which, you know, there's nothing wrong with that, but we've never done it. And now, I feel like maybe this is a way in. It's almost like the principle of it, we've made this commitment to always have a fresh episode. We've come this far. So, to break that streak...let me start there, with streaks. To break the streak feels like, I don't know, like a failure, is the word that comes to mind for me, or just like a situation I want to avoid.

Jen: Right.

Pete: So one of my favorite examples of streaks, this is probably very familiar to many listeners, is the myth or the lore of Jerry Seinfeld and his streaks. And the myth or the lore goes that Jerry Seinfeld used to have a calendar, and he would draw a big red X on every day that he spent some time writing jokes. And he talks about the fact that as you see more and more red streaks build up in a row, there becomes more tension to not write, and it becomes less likely that you're going to skip a day because you see this beautiful streak. He saw it visually, and was like, "Well, I guess I have to write today, even though I can't be bothered, because look at the streaks."

Jen: Right.

Pete: "I've got to keep the streak going." So there's, I don't know, there's something magical in this idea of a streak. And, you know, we're on a streak of like three-hundred-and-something weeks straight.

Jen: I know.

Pete: So it would be a shame, a real shame if we didn't capture something today.

Jen: It would be a real shame. You know, streaks are so powerful that Gretchen Rubin, who hosts the Happier podcast and who wrote The Four Tendencies and Better Than Before and lots and lots of books, she has a product that she sells called the Don't Break the Streak Journal. Where literally, all it is, is a place for someone to check off their streak. And she sells them, and they make money.

Pete: What? That's crazy.

Jen: Yes.

Pete: That's crazy.

Jen: I'll put a link to it in the Box O' Goodies. She has created lots of very cute and useful journals that just have this one very hyper-specific focus. It's kind of brilliant.

Pete: I like that. Like a practical, "We only do one thing, and here's what it is," kind of situation.

Jen: Yes. I have one other interesting thing that came up that kind of reminds me of the empty can, that might be worth calling out. So as I mentioned, I have been on vacation with my daughter. And we were in two different locations in the last week, and two different time zones. I didn't have all of my workout equipment with me. I had my computer, but I didn't necessarily have like the right place to work out. Anyway, I woke up one morning, I had signed up for the online version of my gym class. I woke up one morning, and I was like, "Maybe I just won't do it today." And then, I scared myself, because I was like, "Is it that easy to just stop, and give up on all of the incredibly hard work I've done in particular in the last year to really commit to my health? Is it that easy? Like, I just wake up one day and go like, 'Oh, nevermind.'" So, I freaked myself out. And then, I was like, "That's it, Jen. You're adding an extra day this week." So literally, every single day I was out of town, I exercised every day. And I'm in New York for one day right now, because I had to repack before I fly to a totally different climate. And I was like, "I'm getting out and I'm going to the gym this morning, because it's that easy to be like, 'Ah, the can's empty. Sorry.'"

Pete: Yeah. Bootcamp instructor Jen sounds like a hard ass, but I think you're right. That, in my mind, it's almost like the fear of not doing it is the reason we end up doing it. Like, I think it's called loss aversion.

Jen: Yes.

Pete: You know? I guess it would be classified as like a cognitive bias, where the pain of a loss outweighs like the pleasure of a gain. And so, it's not necessarily that we do the workout or we record the podcast because of the joy and the gain that we get, knowing we've maintained the streak. It's probably more likely that the relief of not losing the streak is actually the thing that drives us.

Jen: Right.

Pete: Which, I don't know if I've said that out loud about the podcast specifically. Which is interesting, because the pain of losing it would be great.

Jen: Oh, yeah. Just even thinking about it right now, I'm like, "No, no."

Pete: I feel particularly aware of this right now, because I have examples of times when I looked at the can, the empty can, and went, "It's okay. It's just going to stay empty for today, and I'll get back to it." And the most specific example I have is the blog that I have, is the blog that I used to write. I used to write a weekly blog for five and a half years, I want to say. And I didn't miss a week, even on holidays. I used to schedule posts. And then, I had, I mean, my wife and I had a son, and I said to myself, "Look, the can is allowed to be empty while you get used to having a son, and being a dad."

Jen: Right.

Pete: Which, I think, at the time, was a pretty fair excuse or reason for changing the behavior, i.e. not shipping a blog post. And it is confronting to me, how quickly you just then justify every single week, the fact that you don't need to do it. To the point where I got to, you know, the end of the year, and I said, "I think I'm just going to now commit to not writing a blog for a little while." Because each week, I would beat myself up about the fact that I wasn't doing it, because I could justify it by the fact that I need to go hang out with Ollie. And the reflection I have, even still to this day, is, it's outrageous how quick five years of consistent practice and routine and streak-keeping can just go out the window. So I like, I have this live burning example of it in my head. I'm like, "Oh my god, the fear of doing that with other things, like working out or recording podcasts, is so great. I don't want to do that again." It's crazy.

Jen: Yes. And there is a potential other way to look at this. Because as the observer, I'm not as close to it as you are. Right? What I see is that you do the equivalent of writing a blog, but you now do it in these micro video lessons for an audience that you're speaking directly to. So you're still producing something in short-form content that is connected to all of your leadership lessons, it's just in a different format and is not necessarily available to anyone who stumbles upon it, but it's for a very specific audience. So I just wanted to say that, because it's true. And I've noticed the same thing in myself. I wrote a blog for years. And what used to drive the blog was that I used to be in a conversation and say, "Oh, that's a blog post." And I'd go, and I'd write the blog. I don't say that, that much anymore. That becomes, when I have that feeling of what used to be, "Oh, that's a blog post," I usually say to someone, "Oh, bring that to the Career Clinic," which is a live Q&A that I do every month for my Career Collective. So, it just is like in a different format.

Pete: Hmm.

Jen: So, I just felt like saying that. Maybe I'm justifying, but there it is.

Pete: I appreciate the reframe. I think you're right. And maybe to "yes, and" your "yes, and"...I think the thing that has been broken is the streak. Yes, I definitely have and do spend time and energy now on these short video kind of lessons and courses and workshops for leaders. And I don't sit down and do it once a week. It's sort of sporadic, based on an opportunity or a need or a desire. So the routine is the thing that I'm like mourning the loss of, is the routine of going, "Once a week, you have to come up with something worth sharing." And we do that on the podcast, obviously. But I feel like the longer it goes since I did it, A., the harder it feels to start again (which is kind of wild), but also B., the more I think that I miss it, the idea of forcing yourself to come up with an assertion once a week. I feel like there's some, you know, you mentioned like the kind of blog-colored glasses, walking through the world going, "Ooh, that's a blog. That's a blog. That's a blog." And I kind of feel like I've lost that.

Jen: Mmm. Well, I brought up Gretchen Rubin earlier. I was listening to her podcast last week, and she had this segment about the concept that more is more and less is less, meaning the more you write, the more you write, and the less you write, the less you write. Or the more you eat sugar, the more you eat sugar. The less you eat sugar, the less you eat sugar. The more you go to the gym, the more you go to the gym. And it's interesting to think of that in relationship to your blog, because the less you wrote, the less you wrote.

Pete: That's true. It's like the hurdle to doing it, all of a sudden, just gets bigger each week. Which is, yeah, so strange. Because it's like, "Oh. Now, I have to justify to the people that were reading or explain to the people that were reading the blog, why I haven't written anything for two years." You know? Like you create this whole ridiculous story, which I'm sure no one reading it would even think about.

Jen: Yes. I don't think anyone is going to be like, "Pete better write an explanation before he writes his next blog."

Pete: It's true, it's true. But isn't that funny, that that's the story you tell yourself?

Jen: Okay. But then, there's also this angle, Pete, of like the reason...yes, we don't want to break the streak with the podcast, for example, because we're six years in at this point. But you and I also gain something from showing up.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: So if this was unpleasant, if we didn't like each other, if we didn't like talking, if we didn't like having the podcast, then it would have been really easy to be like, "It's just not going to happen this week. Like, let's skip a week." And of course, the less you record, the less you record.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: But there is something in it for us, and it is mutually beneficial.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: So, that just feels like another important angle. And I think also, just going back to my whole like, "Oh my gosh, I could have stopped going to the gym in one fell swoop this week," it's like, "Wait, no, I am getting benefit from this. Like, this is good for me to show up for these workouts, even if it's hard."

Pete: That's so true. I think that's really important. I mean, I don't know if you have been asked this question, but I feel like if anyone...if I find myself in a conversation about podcasting, and people, you know, who might have a podcast go, "Oh, how long have you guys been recording?" And you're like, "Oh, over six years." And they're like, "Wow, that's quite a long time. How do you maintain that?" And like, well, firstly, I say, "Well, we don't have guests, which makes it a whole lot easier logistically."

Jen: Yes.

Pete: But secondly, the thing that I think I talk about as it relates to podcasts, but I think this is true of far more things than podcasts. Just like you articulated, which is, even if no one would listen to this, we would still do it. Because we get a benefit from the act of doing it.

Jen: Right.

Pete: There is a tangible and sometimes intangible change in energy, exchange of ideas, getting unstuck, sort of like almost coaching each other some episodes, or getting called out. Like there's a benefit in the act itself, regardless of whether it ends up being some episode that people will send to their friends and listen and go viral. You know?

Jen: That is true. And most of the time, we have no idea if people are listening. And then, we get an email. Like from the other day, we got an email from someone, neither one of us knows how they found the podcast. I think they live in Spain. Is that right?

Pete: I think so, yeah.

Jen: Like, how did they find us? We didn't even know they were listening. So thank you, person who wrote to us from Spain. It's nice to hear from you.

Pete: Yeah. We do. We get these emails every now and then, and we're like, "Oh my god, people are listening." So the other thing, you mentioned Gretchen Rubin a few times, and so I feel compelled to liken this to something Shane Parrish has talked about a lot. Because, you know, Shane Parrish is our flavor of the last three months. Like, we've referenced him in every second episode.

Jen: We love Shane Parrish.

Pete: And I'm sure he borrowed this from others, but he talks about, in his book Clear Thinking, creating rules, so that you essentially make one decision to avoid having to make a thousand decisions.

Jen: Right.

Pete: And so, the example that he uses is he made the decision, "I'm going to do some exercise every day, or I'm going to go to the gym every day," rather than, "I'm going to go four days a week," and then, each day becomes a negotiation about whether that's one of the days that you're going to go, or whether you need to have an argument with yourself about why you deserve a rest day.

Jen: Right.

Pete: He just went, "No. The one decision is every day, I go to the gym. So, it's not up for debate anymore. That's just the thing that I'm doing every day." And I feel like there's probably something in that, that we decided that we're going to do a weekly podcast with an indefinite time period. And so, it's not even like I got to this week and it was a decision about whether we need to create an episode to fill the can.

Jen: Right.

Pete: It was just a thing we had to do. It wasn't like, "Oh, should we?" It was actually just like, "No, we must. So, let's find a thirty-minute window."

Jen: That's right. We weren't making a decision about if.

Pete: Right.

Jen: It was figuring out the logistics of how. And what is so interesting, Pete, I could see so many scenarios for myself where something needs to happen and I'm like, "I just don't have the time." Which, neither one of us, in this very minute that we are recording, technically "has the time". But we know that what we usually do is shoot the shit with each other for an hour before we even start recording, and then, we record. And so, we just said to each other, "We can't catch up. We log on. We record. And thirty minutes later, we're gone."

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: And that's what's happening. And so, we did it. We had to reduce the scale of the conversation, but it was never a question whether or not we were going to record today.

Pete: Yeah, agreed. And so, what you just said reminds me of something that James Clear talks about. Which is, in trying to build and maintain a habit, it's better to reduce the scope and continue the habit than skip a day. And so, he talks about like some comical examples of if your commitment is to move your body every day or go to the gym every day, and one day, you're like, "No, I don't have time," it's not about, "I don't have sixty minutes, so I won't go to a class," it's like, "Okay, do four push ups on the ground right now." Like, reduce the scope to an obnoxious amount, if you have to, and keep the habit. And then, find your hour tomorrow, hopefully. And so, yeah, I think that's what you articulated, is we just totally reduced the scope of, "We just need like twenty-five or thirty minutes, and we can punch this out." Keep the habit, reduce the scope.

Jen: Keep the habit, reduce the scope. And Pete, I also want to say that I have no intention of making this a habit, of like getting it down to the wire like this. But it's nice to know that we can survive this. Like, we actually have now padded the calendar moving forward. So we'll have, you know, six new episodes by the end of next week. But it's good to know that we have found ourselves in this position and we absolutely have survived it.

Pete: Yeah. It's good to test, you know, where your boundaries are. My friend Marie used to always say this when we were working on the altMBA together, and she would say, "Well, we found a new boundary. So we know where we can go up to, and let's try not to go beyond that and/or even get towards the boundary anymore." It's almost like a Rule #6 way of going, "Oh, how fascinating. Like, here's a boom. Here's an edge point that we don't need to reach or cross over ever again." And I feel like we did that today. We found one.

Jen: I love that. Like while that is kind of a humorous way to approach it, I also love saying out loud, "Oh, we found a new boundary.

Pete: "I found a threshold." Yeah. I think it is really helpful.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: She would say it comically, but I think you're right. There's magic in hearing it from someone else, but also saying it and acknowledging, "Huh, I've found myself in a situation that I probably don't need to find myself in again. Good to know. Moving on."

Jen: Right, yep. "This is a one and done kind of situation."

Pete: Right. Right, right, right, right. Well, did we solve the mystery?

Jen: I think we've solved it several different ways, and I am comfortable with all the solutions. Case closed.

Pete: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.