The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 345 - Am I Ready?

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: Hello, Jen.

Jen: I taught a masterclass at a university earlier this week.

Pete: Very casual.

Jen: And I would say that, with love, I read one of the students for filth, based on a comment she made about whether or not she was ready to do the thing that she was actually ready to do. And I'd love to unpack with you, how we sometimes convince ourselves that we're not ready, even when we actually know we are.

Pete: Alright, yes. That is a juicy topic to get in to. And I also want to hear you translate what "read her for filth" means, for those of us that have no idea what you're talking about. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Pete: I think I'm getting old. Is this the moment where I'm getting old? Because you, I mean, you have the expression that I don't understand. What's going on?

Jen: So sometimes, Pete...I don't know if you have this experience. Sometimes, I walk into a group of artists, and I immediately know that someone is extraordinary, just from the way they are existing in the space.

Pete: Oh, yeah. I feel like this is...I think of it as like a leader among leaders. So in my context, it might be I'm working with a team of leaders, and they're all senior leaders in their own right, but there's this one, and you're like, "You are a particular leader. You're like the leader of this group of leaders."

Jen: Well, I got that vibe from her before she ever even said a word to me. I was like, "Hmm. This one is interesting. This one is one to watch. Like I wish they were actually doing material for me today, because I just get the sense that she's real good."

Pete: Oh, I love these people. This is great. You're like, "I can't wait until she does something."

Jen: I know. But then, I never got to see her work. But I just know, in my heart, that this is true. So I have to get a little insider baseball for a second, to set the context.

Pete: Great. I'll try and keep up.

Jen: So my role there was to talk about essentially building the bridge from being a student to being a professional, someone studying acting and then you have to cross the bridge into building a professional acting career, which is what I spend a lot of time helping my clients do. So this actor said that she had tried to get an audition for this very high-profile show that she thinks she's very right for, and she was really discouraged that she didn't get seen for this show. And so, she wanted my take on how to get seen for this show, because I said earlier in the workshop that I don't believe in just waiting around, that you should take your life into your own hands and make things happen. So, she wanted to hear my take on that. So, we had that conversation. And then, I answered a couple of other questions. And she raised her hand again. And then, she wanted to know my take on whether or not she should join the actors union. Which is sort of like...the actors who are listening right now are like, "Jen, please do not go there," so I won't. I'll just say that it is a certain moment in an actor's career where they're like, "Wow, I'm really doing this. I've joined the union. Like I am for realsies, doing this."

Pete: Right, okay. Like, it's a signal.

Jen: Right. And she says, "But I'm thinking I shouldn't, because I'm just not ready. I'm not ready to join the union. And other people have told me that I'm not ready. And I guess I just want like to hear, is like that the right decision?" And this is where the filth reading happened.

Pete: Here she comes.

Jen: Because I was basically like, "Five minutes ago, you told me you think you are right to lead a super high-profile show that has very successful people in it. And then, five minutes later, you tell me you're not ready to join the union. These things cannot be true at the same time. And I think you know you're ready. Otherwise, you wouldn't have said what you said about wanting to find a way to get seen for this show that only people who are ready should be seen for. So I think what you're actually saying is, 'Am I allowed to be strategic about when I join the union?'"

Pete: Mmm.

Jen: "It's not, 'Am I ready?' In the previous conversation, you basically told me you are. But if you're making a strategic. choice that the things you want for your career, you have a clearer path forward by making this strategic choice versus that strategic choice, I support you 100% in whatever choice you make. But if you're going to sit here and tell me you're not ready, that I cannot support."

Pete: Mic drop. And how did she respond? Was her jaw on the floor? Was she like, "Fair point?"

Jen: I think she was like, "Yeah, you're right." Like, I could sort of see her be like, "Yeah. Why am I doing this to myself? Like, I get to make the choice about when I do this, but it has nothing to do with whether I'm ready. Of course, I'm ready. What have I been training for?"

Pete: Right. I have so many thoughts and questions. Like I mean, even just the question of, "What does it mean to be ready," comes to mind for me.

Jen: Right.

Pete: "And who gets to determine that?" And I think that it's easy for us to pass the buck of that readiness to someone else.

Jen: Right.

Pete: To go, "Someone will tell me when I'm ready. And up until that point, I mustn't be ready." God, I could think of so many contexts where that applies in a general sense. Like when I think about leadership, you know, you and I have talked before about this idea that leadership is a choice and a skill. It's not some title that you get bestowed upon you. And I think that so often...I myself fell into this trap and still sometimes do, of waiting for permission to be told that I'm ready to lead a project, or waiting for someone else to go and provide the opportunity that you could then step into, versus telling yourself that you're ready and acting as if that were the case.

Jen: Yeah. And you know, of course there are going to be things as we build our lives that we're genuinely not ready for, because we haven't done the work it takes to be ready.

Pete: Right. And I also feel like, of course you're not ready. Because if you're attempting to do something you haven't done before, of course you're not ready. If ready means 100% aware of every single thing that is going to happen and how you're going to navigate it, if that's what we're describing as ready, I don't think anyone is ever ready for anything, because there's so much unknown and uncertainty. This is why I went to like, "What does it mean to be ready?" Is it...I'm using the word "ready" too much, but, "I'm ready to deal with the consequences of the unknowns of taking this step forward or making this decision. I'm ready to go down this path with full awareness that I don't actually know what exactly is down that path."

Jen: Right.

Pete: "I'm ready to head in a direction, without knowing exactly what's in that direction." Like, there's a...I don't know. I feel like, of course you can't be fully ready, but you can be ready enough.

Jen: Oh, maybe the "enough" is very necessary.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: And it's making me want to look at what some cousin words might be. And in this particular person's case, the project she was talking about requires a highly-specialized skill set. So, I asked her about the skill set. "Do you possess these skills?" "Yes." "Do you possess them at the level that is competitive enough for people to actually take your audition seriously, if you get into the room?" "Yes." "Okay." So maybe in this context, "ready" means prepared. Can you deliver on the promise that you're making? Because if she said, "No, I don't possess any of the highly-specialized skills required for the role," then, I would agree, "In terms of this project, yeah, you're not ready for this project." But let's say that was the conversation. That doesn't mean that she's still not ready for the union.

Pete: Right. Right, right, right. So "ready" is contextual.

Jen: Yes, as all things are. As all things are.

Pete: As all things are. You may not remember this, and this is a slight tangent, but I think it rhymes...well, it does. You and I, once upon a time, had a conversation (a deeply meaningful conversation to me) about starting a family.

Jen: Yes.

Pete: And I must have said to you something like, "How do you know you're ready?" I must have asked you some version of that. And you said, "Oh, Pete, you're asking the wrong question. You'll never be ready. The question is, are you with the right person to figure it out together?" And turns out, I was and I am, and we're figuring it out. But I just think about that so often, because there is a a set of criteria, a permission I'm looking for, a need, a hope, a desire to know I can check all the boxes, to go, "Okay, I am ready for this big life-changing decision in this context."

Jen: Mmm-hmm.

Pete: And you were just sort of like, "Knowing that context and the circumstances and what it's like to raise a child, there's no like, 'You've checked all the boxes. You're now ready.'"

Jen: Right.

Pete: "The readiness is, are you with the right person to navigate it? That's the conditions to be ready, in that context."

Jen: Right.

Pete: So this is like, again, I think this question of like, "What does it mean to be ready in this context," I think is such a critical question, because it looks different.

Jen: Correct. I don't know why this is coming up for me, Pete, but when I was pregnant (and I'm guessing that you and Tracey went through this too), people would say like, "Oh, you know, enjoy your freedom now or get your sleep now, because you'll never sleep again." And Mark and I were like, "Right. That's what we're signing up for. We're looking forward to it."

Pete: Right. I used to say, "I didn't have a child so I could sleep more."

Jen: Right.

Pete: "I wasn't under the illusion that starting a family was going to greatly benefit my sleep. So it's kind of part of the package of starting a family, part of the deal. It's part of what you signed up for." My god, do you get some funny comments from people when you're going through those early days?

Jen: Oh, yeah. It's like, "Projecting much?"

Pete: Yeah, yeah. So, readiness is contextual.

Jen: Yes.

Pete: I feel like there's a close cousin here to imposter syndrome, and feeling like I'm not ready because I feel like I'm an imposter. And we've made the distinction before, and so have many others, that there's a difference between feeling like an imposter because I'm worried what might happen if I do something wrong or what other people are going to think of me, or I don't quite think I've ever delivered a keynote in this particular way before or written a book in this particular way before, and so I'm nervous about doing that because who am I to do that, which is sort of a classic experience or a more stereotypical experience of, "I feel like a bit of a fraud because I'm doing something I've never done before," in which case, we would say, "Do it anyway." Versus, "I feel like an imposter to give surgery tomorrow, because I've never studied how to give surgery," and it's like, "Probably don't go into the theater and give surgery tomorrow, Pete, because you are not qualified." Like, the tension between qualification and self-doubt. You know? Like, how do we navigate that? Because it sounds like, in the context you shared, there was some very specific skills and knowledge and understanding that was required, highly-technical expertise. You mentioned that kind of was part of the criteria for readiness.

Jen: Right.

Pete: Like, it was a little bit of imposter syndrome. But it was also like, "Can you check the box that you've done the right training or prepared the right skill set in order to step into that room?"

Jen: Oh. This is bringing up something else, which is, "Who are the people who have to agree that you're ready, in order for whatever it is to move forward?" So like in this particular actor's example, if she thinks she's ready, she has to fill out and submit an application to the union, which they will either approve or deny. So if she's not "ready", she'll get the denial letter, "You're not ready for this." But if she gets the approval letter, then, it's not just her saying she's ready, it's the other invested parties agreeing. And similarly, you know, in an audition context, you think you're right / ready for something, and the person directing has to agree. You know, it's not just a carte blanche, like, "I say I'm ready, therefore everyone must participate in my readiness." But sometimes, we don't give the other party the opportunity to weigh in. And this reminds me, Pete...this is a blast from the past. You and I had a client who was extremely expert in one particular area of leadership, and had not ever delivered a workshop on the topic even though this was her area of expertise. And a company approached her about doing a workshop, and because she didn't know if she was "ready" to deliver the workshop, she came to us to ask for help with pricing. She told us what she was going to propose, and you and I both said (independent of each other), "Add a zero." Do you remember this?

Pete: I do remember this.

Jen: And she was like, "What? I'm not ready to add a zero." And you and I (independent of each other) were like, "Let them decide that."

Pete: Right.

Jen: So, she added the zero. And what happened, Pete?

Pete: They said yes.

Jen: That's right.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: She was willing to take that zero away from herself, and not give them the chance to pay her what her expertise was worth.

Pete: I know. That's juicy. I'm pretty sure it was Adam Grant who mentioned this way of thinking about imposter syndrome, is how he framed it, which was to listen to the voice of the people who have given you the opportunity more than listening to the self-doubt of your imposter that's saying, "Are you sure you're ready?" It's like, well, the executive offered you the job.

Jen: Right.

Pete: So maybe you are ready, and you're just like questioning whether you are. Like, who are you putting the trust in, when it comes to readiness?

Jen: Yeah, okay. There is a very famous actor who was visiting a graduate acting program as a guest, and one of the students in the grad program asked, "How do you pick your next role?" And this actor said, "I don't. I'm not qualified to do that. I have no idea what I'm actually good at, which is why I have my manager advise me."

Pete: Oh my god, that's so good.

Jen: I just loved that. Because if it was up to him, he'd be like, "I'm not ready to take that on. I'm not ready for that." But instead, he's like, "I don't know what I'm good at. And this is why I have a manager. So if they say, 'I think you should try this,' I'm going to try it, because I know I'm not good at knowing my own capabilities."

Pete: That's fascinating. I mean, this is my parallel to that. Last week, someone was asking me about the clients I'm working with at the moment. I've got these big Australian corporates that I've been lucky to work with for a number of years now, multiple clients. And someone said, "When you think about business development, when you think about creating more work with other clients, are you industry-specific? Are you targeting certain industries deliberately?" And I said no. Because if you had asked me three years ago, "What industries are you going to work in," there's no way I would have told you the industries that I'm now working with. You know?

Jen: Right.

Pete: And not because I am not interested in them, but because it just wouldn't have crossed my mind that there would be an opportunity to work with an amazingly innovative team. I wouldn't have even realized that that innovative team exists within this industry, within this organization.

Jen: Right.

Pete: So I would have been shooting myself in the foot if I had have said, "No, I'm only working with this industry." And so, it's my version of like, "I don't know what industry or what team sits within that industry that is best suited to my style of leadership development and exec coaching." And so, I show up. I don't have a manager in the sense that your client does, but I have a network of people who I know and trust and are able to recommend me into certain places because they know me. They're like my little version of managers. They kind of know me and whether I would fit, better than I do. It's sort of funny to admit out loud, but it's true.

Jen: Right. Ah, so this feels like such a booby trap. Like, this sort of mythology of readiness seems really easy to just fall into the trap of holding ourselves back and denying ourselves possibility and opportunity that we may, in fact, be very very ready for.

Pete: Yeah. And I come back to the question that you beautifully helped me get to, which was, "What does it even mean to be ready?"

Jen: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.