The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 347 - Industry Standard

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: Hello, Jen.

Jen: There are certain words or phrases that make a person pause and go, "Hmm." For some people, it's words like "moist".

Pete: Oh, wow.

Jen: For me, it's words like "industry standard".

Pete: Oh, wow. I feel like we lost a bunch of listeners after they heard the word "moist". And now, maybe we're losing or regaining them when they hear the words "industry standard". This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Pete: Alright, Jen, what's up with "industry standard"? It feels, I mean, it feels stale, just those two words together. I'm already feeling stale.

Jen: Okay. So the reason I have this sort of heebie-jeebies reaction to "industry standard" is because I think people take that phrase way too literally, way too seriously, and burrow into it as a hiding place.

Pete: Okay.

Jen: And in every industry, there are standards. And some of those standards are really great, and you should abide by them. But just because something is industry standard doesn't mean that you should accept it without questioning its validity. And I find this with the clients that I work with in the theatre space all the time. Because sometimes, industry standard, I'm like, "Yes, do it that way. That makes sense." And sometimes, I'm like, "Industry standard, when it comes to that thing, is bogus and should never be done that way."

Pete: Right. Yeah, I feel like the negative connotation I have with this is when you hear something like, "But this is the way we've always done things. And so, let's not change it. Let's keep doing things the way we've always done things." However, like you mentioned, I guess there's a time and a place where I'm like, "Yeah."

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: "Let's borrow off the learnings we've had from the past, which are that this process works really well." However, I also am with you that the idea of just doing things the way they've always been done, because we can't be bothered questioning whether that's the right way to do things, I'm like, "What are we doing? No."

Jen: Right. Let me give you an example from either end of the spectrum.

Pete: Okay.

Jen: In the theatre industry, there is a ubiquitous software. Everybody uses the same software. And the software only allows a resume to be formatted in three columns.

Pete: Okay.

Jen: So, that is how people have been trained to read resumes in our industry.

Pete: Wow.

Jen: And when you go to an in-person audition, often you will hand people a copy of your headshot and resume. Because the people in the room read the industry standard three-column resume, they know what the columns stand for. They can quickly, efficiently glance at it and get the information they get. If you're like, "You know what? That's industry standard. I don't like it. I'm going to do my resume in a circular spiral format, or I'm going to use nine columns," that doesn't make sense. That's not helpful to you. And it's not helpful to the people it's for. In that case, industry standard makes a lot of sense. Just format it in three columns. It's better for everyone.

Pete: Don't get fancy.

Jen: But on the other end of the spectrum, it is very industry standard...although I feel the rage boiling inside me as I say this. It's very industry standard for actors to wait as many as eight hours in line at an audition, and then, not be seen, to literally not get into the room.

Pete: My...you call them "muggles" in your world. You call me a muggle. I've been called a muggle by many of our clients, and your friends and clients. But my muggle brain cannot even...when you first told me that, I don't think I believed you. What do you mean? Like, you stand in a line for eight hours in the middle of winter?

Jen: Eight hours waiting to see if they'll see you, and then, you're told that they won't. Now, that is industry standard, but it's bad. It's just not a good practice. And so, if you are someone trying to build an acting career and you see that that's industry standard, wait eight hours and not get to audition, one maybe would question that and say, "Maybe there's a better way. Maybe there's a different way. Maybe there's a more innovative way to get my work seen by the people I want to see it, rather than waiting eight hours to have it not be seen."

Pete: Absurd. That makes me so angry.

Jen: Oh my gosh, I'm boiling with rage.

Pete: I see it. I see it. So the question in my mind then is, how could we think about the difference between when it's appropriate to follow industry standard and when it's appropriate to challenge it? I feel like we have this in common. I'm on the, almost too much on the side of challenge it always. But I hear you that there are, like the example of the resume was such a good one. It's like, "Look, this is the way that people read resumes in our industry. So it makes sense to follow that process, that template, because it will increase the likelihood of you getting to the next stage." Is there a mental model or a framework in your head of like, "How do I know when to challenge it versus when to not?"

Jen: Maybe this is too simple, Pete.

Pete: I like simple.

Jen: But I think it is to ask the question, "Why is it done that way?"

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: So like, in the case of the three-column resume, why is it done that way? For efficiency.

Pete: Right.

Jen: So that they can get through as many resumes as possible in the shortest amount of time, and get the information that they need. So that you don't have to learn how to read the resume every time, because you already know how. So, it's for efficiency.

Pete: Yep. I like that.

Jen: And then, the question is, so why do people wait in line for eight hours to not be seen? And I think the answer is fear, fear of people's opinions. Because with those same eight hours, that actor could have spent all eight of those hours reaching out to people, looking for other ways to get their work seen, finding other ways to open doors to that project. But the easier thing to do is to wait in line for eight hours and say, "They wouldn't see me."

Pete: Yeah. It's like, it's so strange to think this, because I feel for the people who stand in line for eight hours.

Jen: Yeah, me too.

Pete: But I kind of feel like it might be hiding, if you frame it like you just did. Which is, what else could you be doing with that eight hours? And is it easier to almost take yourself off the hook and put your agency in someone else's hands, by standing in the line and going, "This is me proactively trying to move my career forward. And I'm letting go of the agency I have in order to do that, by standing in line." Which, I don't know if that's true or fair, but that's kind of what it feels like could be the case.

Jen: Yeah. So I really do think it's as simple as, "Why is it this way?" Like, seatbelts. Seatbelts are industry standard.

Pete: Right.

Jen: And why? Because it makes driving safer.

Pete: Right.

Jen: That's why they're industry standard. Not because they're comfortable and not because they're sexy looking, but because they serve a purpose.

Pete: Right. Whereas, I don't know, a certain type of material on the seat, like a leather seat, could be industry standard for a luxury car. But why is it done that way? It might just be because it's a luxury product, and it's not actually serving any other function other than making the car look better. So if you're on a budget and you don't want to buy a luxury car, then you're like, "Well, I don't actually need that. I can challenge that industry standard of the fact that my car needs to have a leather seat."

Jen: Yeah. So, it feels like it's an important call out. Because I'd like to believe that you and that I and that all of our listeners are trying to actually achieve our potential, and sometimes, we are allowing terms like "industry standard" to keep us from reaching our potential.

Pete: Well, that's interesting. I wonder if "industry standard" is a...I don't even know how to articulate this. Let me try. I wonder if "industry standard" seeks to create normal or average in an industry.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: And what we're talking about is actually being above average. We're talking about being exceptional. And the people that listen to this podcast, we know, are striving to be better than average. They're striving to be linchpins. They're striving to be entrepreneurs. They're striving to be the best that they can be, in the field that they find themselves in. And so, to follow an industry standard might mean you end up the same as everyone else following that industry standard. And what we're saying is, "But you don't want that. You don't want to be like all of the other people in your industry, do you? You want to be more exceptional." Is that right?

Jen: I think so. And then, there's another piece of this, which is, sometimes you realize that challenging industry standard would require more energy, effort, resources than the potential return on that investment. For example, just going back to...we'll use the theatre industry here. There are industry standard marketing materials: headshot, resume, online presence. Right? So, those are the industry standard materials. Now, you might have a great idea that you want to hire one of those private planes that you can attach a banner to the back and put, "Hire Jen Waldman for your next play," on the back of that airplane. But the thing is, the people in your industry won't be looking up to the sky for those marketing materials. Right? And so, in that case, that is a misplaced use of resources. That's a resource drain. And so, what you do instead is look to innovate within the constraint of, "It has to be in the form of a headshot. It has to be in the form of a resume. It has to be in the form of some sort of digital online presence," as opposed to, "I'm going to train an entire industry to look up."

Pete: Right. Right. There's a Jeff Bezos, I think it was a Jeff Bezos quote I really like, which was...he was speaking about innovation at Amazon. And one of the things he says is, "You have to work with the world as you find it, not as you would have it be."

Jen: Right.

Pete: You could sit there and wish that the world was that everyone looked up at the sky to see the banner that you had flying behind the airplane. Or you could go, "Let me just work with the world as I find it. Which is, that is not a reality. So, what is a reality? And how can I work within those constraints and those parameters to innovate and to try new things, but within the confines of acknowledging where we're at?"

Jen: Exactly. And I think that there's, like in my waiting eight hours to audition scenario, there's like a zoom in and a zoom out version of this. So the zoom out version is, "What is actually the macro of that industry standard?" People need to have their work seen, in order to be considered for projects. So, that's like the macro industry standard. People audition for projects in some capacity. But the zoom in has put the blinders on. And the only part of that industry standard that a person who is waiting in eight hours, sometimes five days a week, to not be seen, their full-time job is not doing their job.

Pete: Right.

Jen: Right? So when they zoomed in, they zoomed in on this thing that it seems like everyone else is doing, and that's industry standard. But actually, on the zoom out, we're going back to the why of it all.

Pete: Hmm.

Jen: The actual standard behind the standard is, "You need to share your work with people, in order to be cast."

Pete: Right. That could come in many different ways, yeah.

Jen: Right.

Pete: I'm thinking about examples in the context that I find myself in most days, which is working with leaders and corporates and teams. And I was thinking about a couple of things. Like, it's very common...like, I've been doing a lot of work with leaders, at the moment, around effective communication and presentation and storytelling and how they communicate. And I would say, I don't know if it's industry standard but I feel like it's an industry norm, maybe a cultural norm, for people to write a script and have a slide deck for almost any form of communication that they think they need to put together.

Jen: Right.

Pete: They go, "I need a script. Why? Because I'm worried that I'll make a mistake and I want to make sure I say all the things in the right way. And I want to make sure that I don't trip up, and I don't miss anything. I need a slide deck because I don't know, that's what we do. Everyone else has a slide deck. That is an industry norm. I see slide deck, after slide deck, after slide deck." And so much of what I do in these sessions is challenge both of those things. A., I don't actually think you need a script. If you go to the why behind what you're actually doing, like communicating a message, it's to create a connection with the people you're communicating to. So, is the most effective way to do that through a script? Well, actually, no. I think a script is actually a barrier between you and the audience. So what does it look like to get rid of that, and to still communicate in the constraint that you need to communicate and in the way that you need to communicate? But to do so with far more effort, for sure, but intention and removing the hiding spot, the metaphorical standing in line, the reading of a script that you've put together or ChatGPT has put together for you, you know, three hours before the session itself. The same is true with a slide deck. It's a crutch. It's a hiding place. "I spent two hours putting together this slide deck, which is a way of me thinking I've done the work." And actually, it's a total hiding spot. That, the work is, "Can I communicate a message to someone, to people in a way that they grasp, that they connect with, that they're excited about, that they buy in to?" And does a slide deck do that? I mean, no. I would say no, 90% of the time. So yeah, I feel like I'm going to get some emails from people, like, "What are you talking about? Slide decks are helpful." But I stand by it. I stand by it. It's a hiding spot.

Jen: "Slide decks are great." But Pete, this goes back to something...I just have found us repeating this over and over in recent episodes. Context is everything. So like, I was talking to my brother-in-law who is a physician, and he delivers a lot of talks to other physicians about innovations in the medical space. Now, those medical innovations need slides, because the physicians have to see what the hell he's talking about. But my innovations in the creative space, in the acting space, do not require slides.

Pete: Right.

Jen: In fact, the slide would be a hindrance to the person who is in the audience actually receiving the information in a way that is specific to them.

Pete: Right. It's creative, yeah. Hmm.

Jen: Right? So, context is everything. And I think that's what we were saying earlier, is, you must understand the context that this industry standard is existing in.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: And then, you can make educated decisions about whether or not it is the right way for you to approach what you're doing.

Pete: Yeah. It feels like what we're promoting is a healthy curiosity and skepticism about the way things are. That, it's useful to have some discernment about industry standards. It's useful to have some discernment about the things we're spending time and energy on, and whether they're actually serving the purpose that we want it to, in the most effective way possible.

Jen: Right.

Pete: I'm sure there's an example out there of someone who did stand in a line for seven-and-a-half hours and ended up getting seen, and maybe even ended up getting to the next act. I'm sure that's true. But what's the probabilistic likelihood of you getting your work seen by more people? In this case, it's probably spending seven-and-a-half or eight hours, to your point, reaching out to people, writing, connecting, whatever it is.

Jen: That's right.

Pete: Versus passively standing in line, scrolling your face off on TikTok.

Jen: True that.

Pete: And so, I'm reminded of one of our favorite questions that we pose on most podcasts, when it comes to looking at industry standards. And that is, not just to your question earlier, "Why is it that way," but when looking at industry standards, asking yourself, "What is it for?"

Jen: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.