The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 369 - The OK Plateau

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: Well, hello, Jen.

Jen: I have been ferociously devouring a book.

Pete: Oh my gosh.

Jen: It was recommended to me by a client. It's called Moonwalking with Einstein. I'll tell you more about the book later. But in it, the author gave a name to something I've always known existed, but I didn't know had a name.

Pete: Oh, I love when that happens.

Jen: Right? And that thing is the OK Plateau.

Pete: The OK Plateau. I have literally never heard of this, which is exciting because now I get to learn something new. And I would like to, to use your lingo, ferociously devour the knowledge you have on this topic. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Jen: Okay, before we get to The OK Plateau...

Pete: Alright, hit me.

Jen: This book is a page turner, Pete.

Pete: Right.

Jen: The author had become aware of people who had these extraordinary memories, people who compete in memory competitions.

Pete: That's right. Right, I've seen these videos of these people before.

Jen: Yeah. So, it's crazy. You know, like they can memorize an entire deck of cards in sixty seconds. Or, you know, a thousand digits, they can recite them back to you after only looking at them for two minutes. You know? Like, crazy things like that. Anyway, he was like, "My memory is terrible. Let me go on a quest to see if I can improve my memory. And maybe I'll compete in the world memory championship." He's a journalist too, by the way. And so, he goes on this quest. He does all this training. And what do you think happens, Pete? He wins the memory championship.

Pete: That's so wild.

Jen: It's wild.

Pete: I mean, I feel like...I guess that's the end of the story, the punchline. Because, you know, he wrote a book about it. He wouldn't write a book if he came seven-hundred-and-thirty-second. But in what other discipline can you just go, "I'm going to try this and see if I could end up the world champion."

Jen: Right? I mean, it's crazy.

Pete: That's wild.

Jen: But anyway, I highly recommend the book. Just a warning to listeners who are now going and adding it to their carts, there are a couple outdated gender-specific terms in there, that you've just got to know going in that at some of the language you're going to be like, "Oh...," but the stories are amazing and the takeaways are amazing. So anyway, this concept of The OK Plateau. So as he goes on this memory quest, he is logging his times. "I memorized a deck of cards in six minutes. The next day, five minutes and forty-eight seconds. The next day, five minutes and forty seconds." And at a certain point, he hits this plateau. And he cannot crack through the plateau. And this is when he learns, about this thing called The OK Plateau. And this is essentially when you are practicing a skill and you reach this point where your performance levels off, because you've entered automaticity.

Pete: Oh my god. What a word.

Jen: That the way you are approaching the skill now is so automatic and you're not having to put in conscious effort, so you're not getting better. Okay, so the example he uses in the book is typing. We learn to type, and we try to get faster and faster at typing. And then, at a certain point, we don't get any faster any more. Even though, at this point, I've been typing for forty years, my speed is basically the same because I've reached The OK Plateau. It's just automatic. I'm not having to think about it.

Pete: Okay. (I didn't mean to say okay as a pun or anything, but okay.) And so, is it...I'm trying to think of another word. But is it okay to be in The OK Plateau? Like, is it a good thing? Is it a positive? Is it a sign that we are growing, in a way? Or is it a sign of, "Oh, something needs to change."

Jen: Well, that depends on what you think and what you're trying to do. So if you're trying to get better at your memory enough to win the world championship, The OK Plateau is not okay. But if what you're trying to do is get just "good enough" at something, then The OK Plateau is a-okay. The A-OK Plateau.

Pete: Because you've gone from having to try and intentionally learn something to be good enough at it, to, "Oh, now, it's automatic. And I'm good enough at it automatically, so that might be enough. That might be like, great. Okay. I can type at a speed that I'm now comfortable with, and I don't need to be the world speed typing championship champion."

Jen: Right. But let's say you wanted to get better at typing. So, one of the things you're going to have to do is practice in a way that keeps you uncomfortable and actually requires you to make mistakes. So if you are wanting to type faster, what you would do is type faster and know that you're going to make mistakes. So maybe what you're trying to do is reduce the number of mistakes at this new speed, rather than typing at a speed where you don't make mistakes.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: So anyway, the reason this really struck me is because you and I are both working with people who are seeking the extraordinary in the work that they do. They want to be the absolute best that they can possibly be. They want to be experts in their fields, high-level performers. And it is possible that you or I or our clients are, in some area, sitting on this OK Plateau. And what it's going to require from us is deliberate practice, which I'm sure is a term everybody who listens to this podcast already knows. But the deliberate practice, focusing on your weaknesses, making yourself uncomfortable is the way off of The OK Plateau.

Pete: Right. I like this. Okay, I'm thinking of examples in my life where this has popped up, because it's happened to me a lot. The one that comes to mind immediately is when I first started strength training, which kind of happened shockingly late in my life. So what I recall, because it wasn't that long ago, in my twenties, when I first started properly doing strength training, I would get like PB after PB after PB on lifts, like the squat or the deadlift or the press. And I was getting stronger and stronger and stronger. And I was like, "Well, I guess this is what's going to happen now. I'm just going to keep getting ten kilogram PBs." (That's twenty-two pounds, for those in North America.) "I'll just keep getting these massive PBs, and I'm going to be so strong." And like ignorantly, I thought that that's just how things go. All of a sudden, when I'd been doing it for a period of time, what I learned is, "Oh. Now, my numbers are starting to plateau. And I might be happy if I get a like one pound, two pound, half a kilo to one kilo PB." All of a sudden, you're going for those increments. And it's, to your point, it's The OK Plateau. And when I was working with strength coaches at the time, it's all of a sudden, "Now, you need to focus on very specific cues of what your knees are doing, or very specific cues of where your hips are hinging, or very specific cues of where you're tensing when you're pressing." So like, there are really deliberately intentional things you need to start focusing on, to move out of that OK Plateau. This is a fun concept, yeah.

Jen: You know, that quote that is often misattributed to Einstein, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over again, and expecting different results,"...yeah. If you're on this OK Plateau, and you're in this automaticity moment, and things are just happening, and you're doing the same thing over and over and over again, and you're wondering, "Why am I not getting better at this," that's why. And I often, with my clients, will bring up swimmers. And you and I have actually done an episode called Six Strokes, where this concept was applied by your swimming coach. I will bring up swimmers like, you know, Michael Phelps, an American swimmer who, you know, is very celebrated.

Pete: Extraordinary. Yeah.

Jen: When you are swimming at that level, it is the micro adjustments that make a difference. Because you're not trying to shave ten seconds off your time, you're trying to shave one one-thousandth of one second off of your time.

Pete: I know. It's so crazy. It's wild.

Jen: It's insane. But in order to be working at a level where those kinds of changes are possible, we've got to recognize when we're on The OK Plateau, so we can get off of it.

Pete: Right. Yeah. I mean, his level of okay is still a different species. But you're right. It's funny. I'm doing my first triathlon in a month and I've (as I tend to) gone down the rabbit hole at various times, as to looking at essentially what the, you know, the best in the world triathletes are doing. Which is, I'm laughing at myself, because I'm like, "That's not you. This is your first one. Maybe just get through it." But I like learning and thinking about these things, and hearing what they focus on. And one of the stories this person was telling was the difference in time they experimented with, literally, when they shaved their face versus didn't shave their face. Like, shaving the legs and arms is very common. And that's considered to be more aerodynamic, shaving your like stubble. This person was like, "And I saved, I don't even know, half a second or something on my time, because I shaved." And you're like, "What the hell?" The level of specificity and intentionality to get out of that tiny little OK Plateau is wild.

Jen: Yeah. And so, when in the book he reaches this OK Plateau, his coach gives him some new tools to work with from a mental perspective, and also gives him physical tools to work with. Like he has to wear these goggles, so that he can't be distracted. So, they're complete blackout goggles. And then, they drill a tiny hole, so he can only see what's exactly in front of him. And he wears these industrial earmuffs, to try to block out sound. But like, all of these things do help.

Pete: Right. I like this concept a lot. Because I mean, even just the first question of, "Am I seeking to be good enough at this new skill? Or am I seeking to be world class? Or am I seeking to be excellent? Or outstanding?" I think that's a useful question to ask. Because I can think of skills where I go, "Actually, no, being good enough is about all I'm after for this. I just want to be good enough to be dangerous in this particular thing. I don't need to be a world class," I mean, let's keep using the example you brought up, "typist on the keyboard. I just need to be good enough to be dangerous, to get my work done at a pace and a speed that I'm comfortable with." So, I like the idea of getting clear on what I'm trying to do. But then, I really like the idea of going, "When you're in that Plateau, how can you deliberately and intentionally get yourself out of it by moving forward and focusing on something else?" Now, I know how your brain works, so you must be thinking about how this applies in your world, with your clients.

Jen: Yeah. Well, I think it's a constant struggle. Because in the work that I'm doing with people, it is aesthetically pleasing work. And so, it's really hard to seek sounding bad if you're a singer, or looking awkward if you're a dancer, or something reading false when you're acting. Like, it's a very uncomfortable position to put yourself in. But if you want to get better at singing, you have to be willing to make yourself uncomfortable and make ugly sounds and make mistakes. I imagine this is true in all realms. But I feel it particularly in the work I do because it's so public-facing, and you're fighting the desire to improve and become world class at what you do, and the ego that doesn't want to know that you're going to have to admit that there are things you could do better or like areas where there are weaknesses. So, it's an interesting juggle. And I think part of my role as the coach is to get them excited about those unexplored spaces, and like, "Let's get messy for a while. Like, let's intentionally make ugly sounds. Like, let's look crazy while we do this."

Pete: Yeah, because we can get excited about what might be on the other side of that. You know, I was thinking about the FOPO of it all, as I relate to what you're saying. And I was thinking about a friend of mine, Bianca Chatfield, who was an Australian netball champion...which, I'm realizing is a sport that most Americans don't even know exists.

Jen: No...is it like basketball?

Pete: It is like basketball-ish. And it's very popular in Australia, New Zealand...I guess in the Commonwealth, as it were. In The Commonwealth Games, for example, it's a very, very highly contested sport. There's a world championship that, anyway, netball is a big deal in Australia. And she was a very big deal in women's netball, and a leader in this team for many years. And I became friends with her after the fact, because she was taking part in a leadership program that I was running. And I thought to myself at the time, and I reflect on it still because she still does things like this, what a brilliant example of getting yourself out of The OK Plateau. "I'm going to leave my ego at the door, which I could be forgiven for, because I've been at the literally top in the world at my sport. And I was a leader, so I know a few things about leading high-performing teams. But I'm doing work now with corporates, and I'm interested in how else I could get better at this. So, I'm going to take a leadership program facilitated by Pete and a bunch of others." It was called the altMBA, which we've talked about many times ad nauseum on this podcast. And since then, I've been in various conversations with her, where she is deliberately trying, to use this language, to get herself out of The OK Plateau. She's constantly going, "Oh, there's things I don't know. And there's things I could learn." And I could forgive her, if I was thinking about it, like of not doing that because of the FOPO, of like the fear of, "How will people perceive me as someone who is still trying to learn? And does that reflect on the fact that I don't know enough?" None of those thoughts, I don't think, appear in her brain, because she's absolutely brilliant. And she is getting better all day, every day, at the work she does with the people she serves. So it's, yeah, another example of that.

Jen: I love that.

Pete: Okay. I'm doing an audit in my brain as we're talking, between like, "Where am I in The OK Plateau? What are the skills I'm trying to learn, and where might I be in an OK Plateau? And how can I do something about getting myself out of it?" So that, maybe, is a useful exercise for others to do too. I'm going to do this after the fact, of, "What are the skills I'm trying to learn?" Like I said, I'm doing my first triathlon. And so, there are three specific disciplines that I've been training and working on. I think you could probably make a case that I'm in an OK Plateau with swimming, because I've swum a lot. And working with this coach is definitely helping, but maybe there's more I could be doing to try different things, to risk feeling like I'm drowning because I'm trying to swim faster, or something. Whereas, I could just get in the pool and swim at a comfortable pace that I know I can maintain. But am I going to get better as a result? Probably not.

Jen: I also see how this could apply maybe not directly to skills, but to pursuits. For example, Pete, once in a while, you'll take me on a tour of the analytics of this podcast. And you'll be like, "If we want more listeners, we have to do something different, because we've leveled off. We basically have the same number of people listening every week."

Pete: That's true.

Jen: So in this case, I'm not talking about like a hard skill of like, "I'm trying to get better at having conversations with you," even though I am always trying to get better at having conversations with you. But the act of sharing, spruiking the podcast, maybe we need to move off The OK Plateau.

Pete: For sure. I mean, it's sort of non-existent, at the moment. I was hoping you didn't bring this up, because that was the example I was thinking of.

Jen: Oh, really? That's so funny.

Pete: I was thinking of this example. This podcast is a version of this. We've been in an OK Plateau. Perhaps less so in the conversations we're having...though, I guess you could argue that. But more in the way we talk about it, distribute it, encourage others to share it. We have taken the approach of, "If people like it, they'll share it." And we don't necessarily want to scream at people to share and spruik and like and subscribe and be out there on social media all day, every day, posting clips. And we've deliberately made that choice. But there's a trade off from that, which, to your point, is we have the same group of listeners.

Jen: And we love you all. Don't go anywhere. We need you.

Pete: And we love you all. And there's a bunch of you out there. But yeah, it's a plateau, you would say, for sure. Hmm. Called out, called out, called out. It's the call out song.

Jen: Yeah, called out. So, I certainly am like looking at my own skill set. I've been looking at my clients through this lens, too. As I'm watching them work today in class, I'm like, "Where is this person on an OK Plateau? Maybe I can sort of nudge them off of it this month. That will be exciting." So yeah, I think there's a lot of a lot of good stuff in there.

Pete: And I love this idea of nudging them off. It's not that something drastic needs to change. It's maybe just one little nudge in a slightly different direction to try something different, to explore a different way of approaching the skill that you're trying to build. And see, just see, what might happen as a result.

Jen: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.