The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 375 - The Perspectives Wheel

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: Hello, Jen.

Jen: Well, I'm reading a book right now called Your Invisible Network: How to Create, Maintain, and Leverage the Relationships that Will Transform Your Career by Michael Melcher. And it's been a very interesting read. Anyway, you know I like to write in my books.

Pete: Oh, yeah.

Jen: So in preparation for this call today, I was flipping through this book, and I saw in huge all caps with underlines and circles, "GREAT EXERCISE", at the top of one of the pages. So I thought, "Oh, this would be perhaps a good episode." The exercise is called The Perspectives Wheel.

Pete: The Perspectives Wheel. As Jen Waldman would say, color me curious. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Pete: I just drew a circle. I drew a wheel on my page, just as you said that.

Jen: That's step one.

Pete: Oh, really?

Jen: Yes.

Pete: I mean, I don't even know if I would classify it as a wheel. It's a little bit of an odd shape. But I did attempt to draw a circle.

Jen: So, The Perspectives Wheel is essentially an exercise you take yourself through if you're feeling confused or stuck or don't understand why a situation may not be moving forward. And it's designed to help you unlock what the possibilities might be, rather than marrying your doomsday scenario. So, here's how it works. As you just did, you draw a circle on a piece of paper. And then, as if it is a pizza, you divide it into eight slices.

Pete: Eight slices, alright.

Jen: Okay. Now, each of these slices represents a perspective. So first, you write down in one of the slices, your first interpretation of the situation. So in the book, he uses this example of reaching out to a former client and inviting this client to spend time with his, the author's, family and kids. And so, this former client did not respond to the request. So he draws the circle, and divides it into eight. And so, the first thing he writes down is his first impression, which is...

Pete: "This person hates me."

Jen: Well, he starts with, "He and his wife and kids are super busy."

Pete: Right.

Jen: But then, the goal is to fill the entire Perspectives Wheel with different possibilities. So, the Wheel looks like, "He and his wife and kids are super busy." "He wants to keep coaching to himself, precious and intimate." "He doesn't recognize that he's not responding." "His wife determines his social calendar." "Coaching relationships don't always turn into friendships." "His kids have preferences about who they like to socialize with," etc., etc. So what he suggests is after you have filled in eight potential perspectives, you pick the one that is (and he puts this in italics) most useful for you to have. And then, based on this perspective, pick a next step.

Pete: Alright. Wow. Like, most useful for you to have. So, not even the one you think is likely to be most true.

Jen: So like in your initial reaction, you said, "Oh, this person hates me." Well, if you looked at the eight options and one of them is, "He didn't see the email in his inbox," that's a much more useful perspective to have, over, "He hates me."

Pete: Right.

Jen: And I just loved how clear this was.

Pete: Yeah. The filter I thought he might have is like, "Which is the most generous interpretation?" You know, to assume the best. I guess it's a version of the same thing. Which one is going to help you the most is going to probably be the one that's a generous interpretation. I feel like in that hypothetical, I'm like, "Yeah, clearly this person just didn't read their email properly, or needs a nudge in their email because they're busy."

Jen: Right. And the other thing that I think it does...we talked about this, oh my gosh, literally years ago, in an episode we did about brainstorming. I do this exercise with clients from time to time, where I'll set a timer and I'll say like, "The goal is to say as many possible ideas in the allotted time, with no pauses." So, the first couple of things that come out are maybe the more obvious ideas. And then, while the timer is still running and people are starting to grasp for ideas that are out of the box, some really cool stuff comes up. And it sounds like this is kind of an interpretation of that, where it's like, you're going to go with the things that maybe are the most fear-based upfront.

Pete: Mmm-hmm.

Jen: And then, in order to fill in all eight slices there in The Perspectives Wheel, you might need to think a little more generously, or step outside of the fear, or lean on logic, or whatever it might be.

Pete: Yeah. I was originally thinking this feels like an exercise in empathy.

Jen: Mmm-hmm.

Pete: Right? Like, "I've got to try and understand what might be going on for other people, in eight different ways." And I guess that's still true. But it's also in service of yourself. It's almost like, I'm not trying to practice empathy so that I can help that person. I'm kind of like, I want to practice empathy so that I can help myself make sense of what might be happening. So that, I can then follow up or do something in a way that is more generous, more of service, more useful, as opposed to catastrophizing about that thing. It kind of feels like an empathy mapping exercise.

Jen: Right. And what's great in this instance is the author, because he was writing the book, asked the client why he didn't respond to the email. And he got an answer. And the answer was essentially, "If you had asked me, myself, to spend time with you, that would have been easy for me to organize. But to organize me, my wife, and all of my kids seemed too complicated."

Pete: Yeah, too hard. I get that.

Jen: Yeah. So it wasn't a, "I don't like you," or, "I don't want to spend time with you." It's that, "The cost of organizing the entire family is high."

Pete: Yeah. I love it. Oh my gosh, this is such a great exercise. It speaks to so many things, that I'm like...I don't even know which one to start with, which idea to start with.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: One of the things on my mind is something that I think you taught me, which is, when you get feedback, can you look at it with quotation marks?

Jen: Yes.

Pete: Can you look at what was actually literally said in quotation marks? Which, is often different to the story you tell yourself about what was said. So for example, "Hey, Pete. I really liked that shirt," is what someone might have literally said. And I could go off and go, "Wow, they must hate every other shirt that I have. I must dress like shit all the time." And it's like, I've created this story about the fact that now they think I have terrible fashion sense until this one day, and I need to go reinvent my whole wardrobe. And if you go, "Well, look at what was actually said in quotation marks," you go, "Oh, all that was said was, 'Hey Pete. I really like your shirt.'"

Jen: Right.

Pete: So, it helps you make sense of things and not catastrophize things. Now, this example is slightly different. Because if you looked at what was said in quotation marks, it would be silence, which isn't necessarily that useful. But I feel like it's a cousin or a version of the same thing, which is trying to make sense of other people's behavior, ultimately.

Jen: Well, to just pull from my acting world for a second, when you're reading a script, sometimes a playwright will say "beat" or "silence" or give you a direction to say nothing. And that is actually saying something. Saying nothing is saying something. And so, in this case, what is the person saying?

Pete: Right. That's a good point. The silence is for a reason. Yeah.

Jen: And sometimes, the reason...I mean, I have this happen to me all the time. Listeners, you know I have a dysfunctional relationship with email. I'm sorry. I don't like email. It is the devil's tool. I'm not into it. And I will sometimes let my inbox just build up. And then, I'm like, "Oh well, if it was really an emergency, someone would have texted me." So there are people who are like, you know, "I emailed you...did I do something?" And I'm like, "Oh, I literally didn't even know you emailed me."

Pete: Right.

Jen: My silence is not that I don't like you. My silence is I don't like email.

Pete: Yeah. Oh, great point. I just feel like this is the perfect...well, it's a great embodiment of this reality. Which is, I think about this when I am, I mean, I was doing a keynote last week. I ran a workshop yesterday. I think about this in those contexts. We can all be sitting in a room at a conference watching someone give a talk. And we're, in theory, seeing the same thing. We're in the same room. But everyone in that room is having a totally different experience.

Jen: Right.

Pete: Based on what's on their mind, based on what happened the night before, based on how their energy level is, based on what their interests are, based on whether the topic at hand is of particular relevance to them, like everyone in the room is having this totally different experience. Yet, we're all sort of seeing the same thing. And you know, I think in that context, it's like the slice of pizza in a keynote has three hundred different slices, if there's three hundred people in the room. And so, it's like just making sense of that or being cool with that, I think, is enabling you to be generous to yourself and also show up, obviously, in service of those people.

Jen: And the thing that I like about this is that it's about giving yourself freedom to move forward, rather than to sit and stew.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: So, let me use an example that might come up with one of my clients. I may ask a client, "How did the audition go?" And they might say, "The room was so cold and so unfriendly. They absolutely did not like me, and I don't know what I did." So one might draw The Perspectives Wheel, and start with that. Like, "What was happening?" "Oh, they didn't like me." "Okay. So, what else could it have been?" "Maybe it was 12:50pm and their lunch break is at 1:00pm, and they were all very hungry." "Maybe the person before me had left some sort of interesting energy in the room, that I had walked into." "Maybe the producer showed up for callbacks today, and nobody was expecting her. And everyone is scared of her, so everyone's quiet."

Pete: Right. Yeah. It's sonder.

Jen: Yeah. It forces you to really see beyond that initial fear-based response.

Pete: Yeah. It's sonder, that idea that, you know, everyone is walking around with a noise in their head. Everyone is walking around with a whole bunch of context, that you just have no insight in to. And that often can explain things, rather than you thinking you're at the center of the universe and everyone is reacting in response to you.

Jen: Right. And it's also possible that another perspective, at least in that scenario, is, "I opened my mouth. They knew I was the one. And they didn't need to hear anything more from me."

Pete: "That was it." Right. So, I've been trying to think for the last five minutes...there's this quote, and who did it come from? There's an incredible, compelling quote that gets cited by so many people I've heard talk. And I found it. It was Viktor Frankl, who wrote a truly must-read book called Man's Search for Meaning. And there is this quote in that book that I feel like must be one of the most cited quotes of all time, which is, "Between stimulus and response, there is a space."

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: And I feel like this is what you're describing, is like between something happening and how we respond to it, we get to choose, in this space, how we react. Do we draw a Perspective Wheel and go, "Hmm, let me pick the most generous or most useful interpretation," or do we just react negatively immediately? Do we pause? Do we not? Like, we have a choice in how we react to these things. And Viktor Frankl makes the case, like many others have, in a particularly compelling way. In his case, no matter the circumstance, you always have a choice to choose how you respond. And I feel like that's what this wheel is trying to practically give people the opportunity to do.

Jen: Yeah, it feels like a super useful tool. And it reminds me of, you know, we've talked about this...maybe it's been a while since we've actually used this term, real skills. Perspective taking is a real skill.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: It's a skill that makes you a good team member. It's a skill that makes you a good leader. It's a skill that makes you a good follower. It's a skill that makes you a good creator, a good mentor, a good mentee. Like, perspective taking is such a useful, real, human skill.

Pete: Yeah. I remember when I was working on a project with a mutual friend of ours, Ian Scott, and he asked me this series of coaching questions. Which, I mean, I literally wrote...it was one of those moments where I remember where I was and I remember how I felt when I was doing this exercise. And I'm realizing now, he kind of did The Perspective Wheel, without doing The Perspective Wheel by drawing it or anything. He did his version of that, which was...I shared this like challenge that I was trying to solve, that someone I was working with had. And he said, "Okay, what's one way you could think about this?" And I like responded. He was like, "What's the second way you could think about this?" "What's the third way you could think about this?" And he went to like eight or nine. And at the time, I was kind of like, "What are you doing?" It was sort of this momentum and this energy that came from like, "Oh, it could be this. And it could be this. And it could be this. And it could be this." And then, like after, I don't know, we got to like eight or nine, he was like, "Okay. And so, what do you want to do with that now?" And I was kind of like, "Oh, I think I need to follow up and ask this particular question, because I don't actually know what's actually happened. I know there's a whole bunch of possibilities. And that, in order for me to help this person, I need to get a little more clarifying information." So, that's what I did. And it's just a great version of this. I think like we often limit ourselves to, "There's two options. They love me, or they hate me. That's it. There's no other option." You know? "This person is snubbing me, or they're about to reply and they're really excited about it." I don't know, like there's just...we put the blinders on and think of these kinds of things in twos.

Jen: Yeah. And the thing that I love about what Ian did...and I don't know if Ian listens. But hey, Ian.

Pete: Hey, Ian. Oh my gosh, I haven't spoken to him for so long.

Jen: Oh my gosh, let's send him this episode.

Pete: We will. In fact, I say that. He sent us a lovely message when we hit our seven-year anniversary earlier this year. So, we should. We must send this episode to him.

Jen: Oh, wow. Amazing. Well, the thing that I love about what Ian did and the thing that I love about the way this Perspectives Wheel exercise is described is that it's not just to know, it's to act.

Pete: Yeah. What are you going to do, now that you've mapped out these scenarios or these possibilities?

Jen: Right. So, it's not good enough to get it down on the page. That's the first part. But the next part is to take an action, to move yourself closer to whatever the goal is.

Pete: Yeah. But I would just draw a distinction between, as I think about this, it gives you a way to act but prevents you from reacting.

Jen: Ooh, I like that.

Pete: I don't know if...yeah, like a reaction feels immediate. It feels like I might not have thought it through as much. Whereas an action with intention feels more likely, if I've done The Perspectives Wheel.

Jen: So, thank you to Michael Melcher. There's actually a lot of really good stuff in this book, that feels familiar. Like, it feels very much in alignment with the way you and I talk about introducing yourself to people and building relationships. So if you're looking for a read, this might be a good one for you.

Pete: You know I am. Let me add that to the cart as soon as we finish this conversation.

Jen: Right?

Pete: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.