The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 376 - Cadence

Transcript:

Pete: Hey, Jen.

Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: I feel like we're at risk of this podcast becoming metaphors and learnings from random sporting activities.

Jen: Yeah, that is true.

Pete: I mean, I recently reflected on the triathlon I did. We have the annual Jen's running episode. We've been talking about The Gorgeous Pythons.

Jen: We've been talking about your swimming situations.

Pete: We have been talking about the swimming situation. Well, we're doing it again. Because today, I'm doing a Jen. I have had an aha moment as it relates to running, myself. So, call me Jen Waldman. I'm going to hit you with a running lesson. And let's see if we can apply it to real life.

Jen: I love it. Let's do it. Pete's running episode. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Pete: So post-triathlon, I pulled up a little sore, as you might imagine. And I thought I'd go see a physiotherapist, and just like have a chat to him. It turns out this physiotherapist is like one of those people who actually just ran the New York marathon and just got back, and he had a life-changing experience, and blah, blah, blah. And he's a really, really good runner. And I was explaining to him the event, and I was like, "I'm a bit sore here and a bit sore there." And he said, "Oh, why don't we have a look at your running technique on the treadmill?" And so, he puts me on the treadmill. And I run. All of a sudden, I'm very subconscious about what it must look like for me to run. And he's like filming me with an iPad. And I'm like, "Oh my god." And then, there was that moment where you go see someone that looks at your technique, and you look at them for validation or approval, like, "Is everything okay?" And they're like, "Hmm, yeah, we've got some work to do." It was very funny. And he said, "What sport did you play growing up?" I said, "AFL." And he said, "I thought so." AFL, being Australian rules. "You run like someone with an AFL background." I said, "What does that mean?" He said, "You over stride, in short. And this is amplified because you have such long legs, that you put your leg too far out in front of your body. That then means that a bunch more force goes through different parts of your body, like your hamstring and your knee, and your foot stays on the ground longer, which puts more impact through your joints. And actually, what you want to be doing when you're running is taking really, really short steps. What you need to do is increase, even though it sounds counterintuitive, increase your running cadence, i.e. the amount of steps you take per minute, which will then make A., your body able to absorb the impact, B., you're more efficient, and C., counterintuitively, faster." And I've been chewing on that for two weeks. And I've been trying to work on my running technique. And I feel like, in the same way there was a learning in the triathlon episode about tapering and about slowing down to go fast, I feel like there's something here in breaking things down into shorter steps, in order to move faster to our destination.

Jen: Oh, that is beautiful. I love that. I love that. It reminds me, Pete, of something that I talk about a lot with my own clients, when they're working toward whatever their finish line is. That sometimes, the desire is to leap over certain steps, so that it feels like you're getting closer to the end. But actually, what you're doing is slowing yourself down, because you're overextending.

Pete: Yes, yes, yes.

Jen: So, wow. Wow, wow, wow. That is incredible.

Pete: That's what I'm doing. And I'm like, I'm long. I have long legs. So the longer I stride, the quicker I get to the end point, because the further I move with each stride. And what I'm learning is actually, no, it's not efficient. It's not effective. And it's not sustainable to do that. So what does it look like to slow down but speed up the amount of cadence, so that you can then go faster? It's a really weird conundrum that I'm wrapping my head around.

Jen: I'm so interested in taking this as a metaphor, and then like trying to apply it to something that isn't actually running.

Pete: Me too.

Jen: Right? So as we're nearing the end of the year, Pete, I don't know about you, listeners, but there may be things on your "Complete in 2025" lists that you're like, "Oh, that collected cobwebs." I'm speaking from experience. And so, it could be a scenario (again, speaking from experience) where it's like, "Oh my gosh, I have a month left to get this thing done. I better just leap over all the steps I know I need to take and just try to get this across the finish line, before the end of the year." Which may end up helping the thing (which, in the case of a runner, might be the body, but in the case of the project, might be the project) break down. And maybe it'll cross the finish line, but it might do it not in one piece.

Pete: Right. Right, or you might not do it in one piece. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I like that. I like that. I also...like the question I'm pondering is, as we extend it, what are the things where taking more steps is counterintuitively actually more effective and more efficient?

Jen: Well, Pete, my initial response to that is any goal. Because very often, when we are naming the steps we're going to take to pursue a goal, we name this sort of like big bucket item. And if we can actually break things down into smaller, more tangible steps, first of all, it gives us more agility to be able to adjust if something is off course. Second, it creates a more sustainable and consistent habitual practice. And third, and maybe most importantly, you know what you actually need to do next.

Pete: Yeah. It feels easier because of that last part or because all of it, but especially that last part. Like, it feels easier to go, "Oh, it's just one little step I need to take. And then, one little other step. And then, one little other step. I just need to do this one thing." Versus like, if my goal is chunked down into two bigger chunks, there's like seven things I need to do within each step. And I go, "Oh, that's actually quite a big chunk. I'm not sure how I feel about starting that. I think I'll just kick the can down the road," to go back to one of the other episodes. Like, it's a procrastination. The running part in my head is when the physio said to me, "When you over stride, your foot stays on the ground for longer. You spend too much time on that step at the impact zone." And I think that's sort of what we're saying, is like when the chunks aren't small enough, you spend too much time procrastinating or with your body / project / insert use case here in a particular place for too long, as opposed to generating forward momentum.

Jen: Yeah. I can think of a couple examples of this, that are coming to mind. One is just the stack of books that's on my nightstand, where I happen to be recording this today. It's like, you know, my goal is to read the stack of books. But I really have to start by picking which book I'm going to open first. That would be the first step.

Pete: And then, reading the first page, not the whole book.

Jen: Yeah. You can only read a book a page at a time, as opposed to opening it and closing it and going, "Okay, done with that one."

Pete: And now, I'm thinking about three workshops I ran last week, all which had different topics. But if I take one of them, it was on the topic that we've unpacked a few times on this podcast, around how do we as senior leaders have uncomfortable / difficult conversations? And I think that part of the temptation, when we're thinking about that, is we think it's one and done. Like, "There's one step. I have the conversation. And then, it's done." And for some, that feels scary and overwhelming. And so, we never even start. For others, we dive straight in without any intention and thought, and maybe we create a bunch of effects and impacts that we didn't quite anticipate. And now, we've got to pick up the pieces. And so, we've failed to chunk a conversation down into a series of conversations, or a series of questions, or a project that needs to go on for a period of time, i.e. has more steps. And as a result, we've done it inefficiently, ineffectively, and created perhaps more tension, more friction, more work for ourselves.

Jen: I'm also thinking, Pete, we recently did an episode, I think we called it Competent or Complacent? And we talked about the stages of learning. And when you actually have reached a point with a skill where you are at a flow state or like a mastery level, sometimes it's really, really helpful to actually go back and break that thing that you have mastery of into its component parts. Like I'm thinking about a dancer who leaps, for example. When you say to a dancer, "Leap," they just leap. They're not thinking anymore, "Well, I need to pliè on one leg. Then, push off of that leg. And then, extend my leg. Then, get into the air. Then, land on the extended leg, rolling through the foot. And end in a pliè." Like, they're not thinking that. But at one time, when they were learning how to leap, they did. And I don't know if I've ever shared this story on this podcast. So if I have listeners, it was probably a really long time ago, because I don't remember. Pete, I sustained a truly horrible injury when I was a dancer. And I had to go back to beginner level dancing, in order to rehabilitate myself. And it was the greatest thing that ever happened to my technique. In the moment, it was horrible. But on the other side of it, it was the best thing that could have happened to me. My technique was so improved, because I had to go back to the basics and remind myself, "What even is a pliè? What even is a tendu?" I hadn't really thought about it in years.

Pete: I love this. I love this example of going back to the essence or the basics or the fundamentals of what it is we're doing.

Jen: Which, is what it sounds like you have to do when you're running now, is actually think about every single detail of, "What is a stride?"

Pete: Yes and no. This is part of the cool part of the fix that I'm working on.

Jen: Ooh, let's hear it.

Pete: Yeah, I feel like you'll like this. The physio I'm seeing is awesome. And what he said was, "The bad news is, this creates a whole bunch of dysfunction. You over stride, so you put more pressure through these joints. So you're leaning forward more, which means you're not upright enough." And the way he's describing it, I'm like, "Oh my god, how am I possibly going to fix all these things? How am I going to learn to run again? This sounds overwhelming." And he said, "The good news is, here's what we do. "You go into your phone," and he literally picked up my phone, "and you go to Google, and you google 'running metronome'. And you set a metronome at a certain pace." For me, it's like 160 steps per minute. "And you put your AirPods in and you step every single time you hear the beat, and that's it."

Jen: Wow.

Pete: "That's all you've got to do." And so, I've been out running around the park, trying to hit the beat of the metronome, failing miserably a few times. Then, forgetting and reminding and recatching it. Then, getting annoyed about the fact that there's a beep in my head or a beep in my ears. And then, finding the rhythm. And what I found is when I do that, all of a sudden, I'm standing more upright. All of a sudden, my legs aren't as sore. All of a sudden, all of the flow-on effects happen as a result of this one cue. So there's a cool thing happening that we could nerd out on, around one coaching cue that is actually really simple, that solves for so many other things. It's like the 20% cue that solves for 80% of the issues or challenges. And I'm obsessed with the fact that the solve is actually quite easy.

Jen: That is amazing. And it goes back to something we talk about a lot on this podcast. We all need coaches.

Pete: Right. Right. Right.

Jen: And we all need music, because I bet there are some really great songs out there that are exactly the beats per minute you're looking for.

Pete: Oh my god, it's so funny you say that, because I've been doing that. Like literally, it's like so dull. And then, he goes, he showed me there's playlists on Spotify that people have created, with the exact beat that you need.

Jen: That's so cool.

Pete: So cool, yeah. So I can run and listen to music that I wouldn't have listened to otherwise, and it has a certain beat. And now, I'm finding myself getting the right cadence up.

Jen: I love that. Do you see other areas in things you're working toward, where you could apply this metaphor?

Pete: Undoubtedly, yes. I mean, the thing that comes to mind for me is the result of a new project that I might want to work on. So maybe there's a part of a business or a leadership team that I've been speaking to, and they're like, "Yeah, we'd love to do a program with you." And I want to get to the result. I want to get to the finish line. Which is actually, ironically, the finish line for this example, is like starting the project. You've gone through the, "Here's what I propose." They've done their approvals. The budget's been signed off. It's a whole business development process, essentially. This is very common for anyone running a business. And we've talked about this in about seventeen different episodes, some version of the holding pattern of it all, the waiting for the green light of it all, that can become frustrating and you just want to get to the finish line. I want to get there as fast as possible. And I can find myself going, "Oh, I could skip these three steps." And I find myself doing something like, "I'll skip the step of waiting one to two weeks for feedback." Because when you send a proposal, you've got to give people time to review the proposal and come back to you with feedback. And I usually give myself two weeks. If I'm feeling antsy, sometimes I'll check in after ten days. And when I'm in the state of not focusing on my cadence or breaking this down into enough steps, i.e. waiting the ten days or the two weeks, at day five, I'll be like, "Oh, I'll just send it now. Because that'll be quicker. I'll get to the finish line quicker." And actually, what can happen (this has happened before) is maybe you frustrate the client. And maybe they then start to think, "Oh, I don't want to work with you anymore, because you're actually annoying." And I'm sure that's happened before. Maybe they just didn't tell me. So yeah, the example on my mind right now is not skipping straight to, "The contract is signed. We're doing the work." There are so many steps, so many steps that come before that. In fact, I feel like I ran a workshop for perhaps your community, once upon a time...this could have been many years ago. And we were talking, for some reason, about reach outs. And how having a reach out practice where we send an email to someone to thank them, to congratulate them, to connect with them, whatever it is, is a great way to start to focus on hopefully building a career and building a business. And I think when we think about reaching out to someone, perhaps whom we know, it's easy to go, "The reason I'm reaching out is because I want to do business with you." And that shows up in that first reach out. Whereas, actually, the goal of the first reach out, if I really break it down from my perspective, often, it's to get a reply. And the way to get a reply isn't to overwhelm someone with how you want to do business with them. The way to get a reply is to go, "Here's an interesting podcast I thought you would love. Let me know what you think." Or, "I was thinking of you, if want to read this article, because I know you're working on a sustainability strategy at the moment, and I found it really interesting." Like, that is a way to get a reply. Which then, hopefully, starts to build a connection. Which then, hopefully, starts to build rapport. Which then, hopefully, starts to get to a point where you can propose something. So, there's all these little steps. The cadence has to be so fast. Even though, perhaps in your mind when you started that reach out is, "Wouldn't it be cool to do business with this person?"

Jen: Right. And if you take the strides too far, when you are first getting to know someone, that relationship definitely is going to break down.

Pete: In so many contexts, that applies. Don't move too fast, everybody. Don't move too fast.

Jen: I can think of one other thing in relationship to you, Pete, where I think you're already doing this. But it comes so second nature to you, that you probably aren't even aware of it. And that is in your pre-recorded courses that you do for some of your clients, instead of doing these very long videos, you break them down into really bite-sized pieces, where someone can increase their cadence as opposed to having to commit to this really long stride.

Pete: I mean, it's wild that you say that...thank you. Because I'm looking at my equipment, which is set up right now. Because after this podcast, I'm recording a new course for a client on building a coaching culture for leaders. And I've been thinking about, "How do you break that down into ten two-minute videos, as opposed to a twenty-minute rant or a thirty-five-minute keynote?" And that's something I'm doing as we speak. So, that's a live example. Nice one. Well, thanks, Jennifer.

Jen: Thank you for the wonderful metaphor. It's funny, before we logged on, Pete, I was literally looking at a new pair of running shoes. So, maybe I will join you in increasing my cadence.

Pete: She's back. She's back in the running shoes. I like the sound of this. Listeners, get ready for another episode on running in the not-too-distant future.

Jen: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.