The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 379 - Have a Goal

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, Pete.

Pete: Hello, Jen.

Jen: So I was running the final Career Clinic of the year, and that is basically an Ask Me Anything for the artists that I work with.

Pete: Nice.

Jen: And the very last question was so good, I thought you and I could answer it together.

Pete: Oh my gosh.

Jen: And the question was: If you could only have one thing on your prepared for 2026 checklist, what would it be?

Pete: Alright, ask me anything. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Pete: I feel like I need you to repeat the question. I'm trying to work out what is intended by this question. And maybe that's part of the magic of it.

Jen: For context, this is a group of actors who are working on career building and career strategy. And so, they wanted my take on what is the most important thing to have in mind or to have in order to feel prepared entering the new year.

Pete: Oh my god, what a question.

Jen: Right?

Pete: I mean, I immediately want to say, it depends.

Jen: I'm happy to share my answer, if that helps.

Pete: Please.

Jen: Warm us up here.

Pete: Yeah. Please, please, please, please.

Jen: Okay, here's my answer. Drum roll...

Pete: This is going to be such a Jen Waldman mic drop. I just know it.

Jen: A goal.

Pete: An intention. A goal. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Tell me more. Tell me more.

Jen: Because if you don't know what you're aiming for, why put anything else on the checklist?

Pete: Oof, yeah.

Jen: And I know we've talked about this on multiple episodes, Pete. I'm a huge, huge, huge fan of goal setting, and completely apathetic about goal reaching. But the goal setting helps you connect the dots, see opportunities, take proactive steps in a direction that you want to be headed. And sometimes, new opportunities show themselves and the goals change. But starting with a sense of knowing where you want to go or having an intention about where you're headed changes everything.

Pete: Yeah. I mean, that's such a great answer. I just want to copy it. Like, a definition of success. What does success look like for you in 2026? And then, how can you orient everything that you're doing for your career, in this context, towards that? What are the things you need to do to help increase the likelihood of you getting that definition of success? With the caveat that there are always things that are outside your control and there's no guarantee you will actually get there, to your point about goal achieving is more overrated than the goal setting. But can you at least have a sense of direction? The thing that's coming to mind for me, I guess this is because I've been doing a lot of open water swimming lately, is when you set off on an open water swimming race, they have a bunch of what I would call buoys...what North Americans would call buoys. Which just honestly, to say that word as a "buoy", it's just so comedic to me to hear that come out of my mouth.

Jen: The first time you said "buoy", I was so confused. And I don't know if you remember this, but I was like, "You're wrong. It's pronounced buoy." And you're like, "Pronounce the word B-U-O-Y-A-N-T." And I said, "Buoyant."

Pete: And that is The Long and The Short Of It. Ah, yep. Buoyant, so short for that would be buoy, at least in Australia. And so anyway, when you set out in an open water swimming race, there are usually buoys that you need to turn around. But then, there are what they call sighting buoys, which help align you to standing on the beach to where the point is that you need to turn around. And I just think about, imagine an open water swimming race without a buoy.

Jen: Oh my gosh. Yes.

Pete: Without an intention, without a direction, without any idea where you're aiming for, you would have hundreds of people swimming in all of these different directions. "Am I there yet? Did I get it? Did I go 1,500 meters yet? Do I turn around now? Like, how do I know if I've actually gotten where I want to go?" Well, you need a marker. You need to put it out there into the ocean. Or in this context, onto a piece of paper, into the world, into the intention sphere, whatever that is.

Jen: I love that. I'm obsessed with that.

Pete: I just made that up. The intention sphere. Ah, all the things that come through my head. Yes, so I guess I want to copy your answer. An intention / definition of success would be the thing that I would say you need. The equivalent of the turning around buoy. How do you know where you're going, so that everything you do can help you get there?

Jen: Okay. So I'm going to use an example from the theater world, but I really think this can apply anywhere. So, heading into the new year is one of the two busiest times of the theatrical season. So there are, I think the technical term is a shit ton of auditions happening.

Pete: How very Australian of you.

Jen: Right? And sometimes, there are multiple auditions happening in a single day. So it's a crazy, crazy season. And if you are an auditioning actor and you're participating in audition season without an intention or without a goal or without a priority, you could burn out so, so, so quickly. But if you have determined that this year success looks like introducing myself to as many new people as possible, then that might help you prioritize which auditions to attend and which ones not to. Or if you have determined that your goal for this year is to only say yes when it's a hell yes, and to say no if it's anything less than that, then that helps you determine. So without knowing what you're aiming for, you're just kind of going through the motions. But with a goal or intention or vision or definition of success, it makes decision making...well, I'm not going to say so much easier, but easier.

Pete: Totally. I guess on the other side, without it, decision making is almost arbitrary.

Jen: Correct.

Pete: It's like, "Oh, I don't know. Today, I don't feel like doing that. So, I'm not going to do that." But I actually haven't thought about if that helps me get where I want to go. So I'm loathe to say what I'm about to say, because I feel like it's getting to the point where it's like, "Yeah, Pete, we get it. It's boring." But recently, I've been nerding out on triathlons. And it seems to come up in every single episode, at the moment.

Jen: I love it.

Pete: I was listening to this podcast about triathlon training. And the way they described goals, I think it's worth sharing here, because I actually think there was some real genius in it. And it applies to everything, not just triathlon goals. But essentially, so there were these two triathletes having a conversation. And it was this off-the-cuff thing that's clearly part of the vernacular of these two and their relationship, that I was like, "Oh my god, that is genius." And what they were saying is, "What's your result goal? And what's your training goal? As two different things." And the way I interpreted that was like an outcome goal versus a process goal. Recognizing, if you only have a result goal or an outcome goal, like, "I want to finish a 70.3 Ironman in less than five hours," for example, so many things could happen or might happen to stop that from being the reality on the race day, that you would perhaps set yourself up for misery or disappointment if you didn't have some thought around, what about the process goal? What about the training goal? Because that's the thing that you're going to do 364 days of the year or whatever, 300 days of the year. The result goal is the thing that happens on that one day, which you have some control over, but not all control over. So I just, I loved the idea of having two separate goals almost. I think what most of us do is go to the result goal, the outcome goal. "I want to book that job in Wicked," in your world. And it's like, cool, that's a great outcome goal. What's the process goal, that's going to enable you to increase the chances of that happening? Because that's the thing that you can wake up and do every day. You can't wake up every day and go, "I'm in Wicked." I mean, I don't know. I guess you could try and manifest it into the existence. But I feel like there's a process / training / whatever you want to call it goal that's useful to think about too. At least, I think so.

Jen: It's so great that you called in that Wicked example, because when I am talking about goal setting within my community, I always use Wicked. Because everybody wants to be in Wicked, so it's an easy one for people to relate to. So, that's really interesting. You're saying an outcome goal versus a process goal. I would say my goal is to play Elphaba on Broadway is a dream, and to put the best possible work in front of the people who need to see it is a goal.

Pete: Okay, nice. Yeah. So, maybe different labels for a similar thing.

Jen: Yeah. I think of the playing Elphaba on Broadway as out of your control. But doing everything it takes to be ready for that opportunity is in your control.

Pete: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's true. Like in the example of the triathletes, I was thinking about doing a sub-five hour 70.3 half Ironman. It might be an outcome goal which is a little more in your control, I would say, than perhaps getting booked in your dream role. But the process goal might be consistently training ten hours a week, for example, or five hours a week, however long you commit to, which is the thing that you can measure each week, that hopefully adds up to you getting that more specific outcome-oriented goal. So I guess it's slightly different, in that perhaps there's a little less control in your Wicked example. But there's so many factors in the triathlon example, like there could be a massive headwind that just means no one gets under five hours, and you've just set yourself up for failure or for disappointment if that was your only goal. So yeah, training goals. I like these.

Jen: Yeah. Sidebar, that just made me think about the Taylor Swift documentary...which is incredible and everybody watch it. It is so good. But in one of the episodes, she was talking about having the goal of being able to complete the three-and-a-half hour concert without being out of breath.

Pete: Right. And didn't she do it running on a treadmill or something? Am I reading this right?

Jen: Well, prior to that even, she trained for six months with a trainer, to get her body to the place where she could do the whole thing running on the treadmill, or however she ended up preparing it before rehearsals ever even started. Talk about commitment. And I saw that show twice, and she was not out of breath.

Pete: Gosh, T. Swift.

Jen: What a legend.

Pete: There's like a hundred episodes on lessons from T. Swift that we could create.

Jen: Well, I'm planning to do one later this year. So, hang in there.

Pete: Hang in there, folks. The other example...not to labor the point too much. The other example that comes to mind for me from a business perspective, as someone who runs a business, it's really easy and tempting to go, "Here's my revenue goal as a business." I think there's real merit in doing that, and stretching yourself to try and have a target that might be a little bit uncomfortable, a little bit out of your reach. But then, I think the process goal that helps you get there is really critical. So it might be right down to like, "Do fifteen reach outs a week," or it might be right down to, "Send three proposals a quarter, or a month," or whatever timeframe you're using. But there's a process goal that is going to enable that revenue goal. You don't just say, "This is my revenue goal."

Jen: And then, sit there.

Pete: Exactly. You have to have some way of like a repeatable measurable behavior that you can do, that is proven to increase the likelihood of getting that thing. I just feel like I'm saying the same thing over and over, but there's all these different examples where it's true. Okay, I have a question.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: How did the audience, the group, react to your, "You need to have a goal." Was it like, "Oh, I know. You're right. That's so annoying." Or was it like, "Oh, yeah, I hadn't thought of that before."

Jen: Well, this particular group, I think, was like, "Good thing we have our goal setting workshop coming up in January."

Pete: And you were like, "By the way, I'm running a goal setting workshop."

Jen: Yeah. I was like, "Don't worry. I've got you. I'm going to take you through the process, so that you have a sense of what you're actually aiming for in 2026." But I do have to say, Pete, very often, someone will schedule a strategy session with me. And I'll ask them what they're working toward in their career. And they really will not have an answer. They haven't asked themselves that question. And of course, I can't help coach you towards something that you don't know you want to achieve.

Pete: Yeah, I agree with you. It is shockingly common, not just in your world, but in the work that I do with corporates and leaders, how many people don't have a really clear answer to that question.

Jen: And I do know that there are questions you can ask yourself to gain that clarity. So I'm not suggesting that you need to have all the answers, all the time. But what does need to be there is the desire to figure it out.

Pete: Right. Yeah, I agree with that. Also, for what it's worth, if I had a sub answer to this question...it's just occurred to me after I've gone with my Jen Waldman answer, which is, "Yep. You need a clear definition of success. You need a clear goal, be it a process and or an outcome-orientated goal." I also think there's a stock take, an audit, a process worth doing where we look at what assets we have currently in our possession, including like literal physical assets, and skills, and knowledge, and capabilities, and friends, and networks. What do we have at our disposal, that can help us achieve those goals?

Jen: Right.

Pete: Because what I find myself doing, and I've seen others do, is we set a goal. And then, we think that there's a gap or a delta between how to achieve it and where we are now. And we have to do it all ourselves. And we have to figure out, I don't know, the entire world of casting on our own. Versus, well, in the context of your people, "What community do I have access to? Who do I have access to? I've got access to Jem Waldman and the JWS community. I've got access to the asset, being my voice. And I've got access to the assets of, I don't know, living in New York City," or whatever it is. There are so many things that we take for granted. Tools in our toolkit, is how I talk about it with leaders, that we often forget. What do you actually already have at your disposal, that can help you get that goal? Rather than, "This is a goal that I need to now train and build a whole new bunch of skills, in actually helping me achieve it." Yes, there might be some gaps. But I'm pretty certain there's a bunch of assets you already have available to you, that can help you get where you want to go.

Jen: Yes, yes, yes. Shout it from the rooftops. I could not agree more. So often, we are overlooking the things that are already in our orbit, that could be so helpful at giving us the leverage, the momentum that we need to move forward.

Pete: I feel I once upon a time had this thought, that all self-help books ever written could be distilled into the following phrase: You are capable of more than you realize.

Jen: Yep. So true. So true. Okay, Pete. Well, it sounds like we are in agreement, that having an intention or a goal or a vision or definition of success is important. And then, recognizing that you already have at least some of what you need, in order to start making progress toward that goal.

Pete: Well, and so, I feel like...I mean, as the title of the podcast suggests, we come from different height spectrums, other sides of the world, different industries. We come from places where some of us say "buoy" and some of us say "buoy". But we meet in the middle with the answer that we have for how to set ourselves up for success, which is to get clear in: What is my definition of success?

Jen: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.