The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 385 - Fear Reminder

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: Hello, Jen.

Jen: So, today I was in one of my classes and I made a comment.

Pete: Okay.

Jen: This comment elicited a, "Ooh, that's good." And someone said, "Ooh, I feel called out." And then, I said, "Wow, I believe I just quoted Episode One of The Long and The Short Of It."

Pete: Oh my god. Quoting ourselves, Episode One. Dare we go back and revisit that? My goodness.

Jen: Yeah, we dare. We dare.

Pete: Oh dear. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Pete: All I recall from that episode was it was like four monologues stitched together. Like, I did a monologue. Then, you did a monologue. Then, I did a monologue. Then, you did a monologue.

Jen: Well, I'm pretty sure that this was from one of my monologues.

Pete: I love it. What do we got?

Jen: Okay, so this class is made up of singers / actors. So, their instrument is themselves.

Pete: Uh-huh. Their voice, yeah.

Jen: So, one of the things we were talking about in this group was being able to discern when something is actually unhealthy or harmful to your instrument versus when you're just scared to use your instrument in that way. And I said, you know, what we're talking about is the difference between, "Is this the fear that's keeping me safe," or, "Is this the fear that's keeping me stuck?" And that's when the roar went up from the crowd. And I was like, "Wow, I did say that in Episode One of The Long and The Short Of It, which was 7+ years ago. And that principle still is very resonant and very true." So now, it's been on my mind all day, this idea of healthy fear and harmful fear.

Pete: Oh, mama. I mean, I don't even remember that part of Episode One. I feel like I have a relatively good memory of Episode One, but I don't actually remember that. That feels like one of those little side comments that you said, that maybe depending on where you're at in one's journey, it's different depending on when you listen to it. You know?

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: So the thing that comes to mind immediately is, how do we know which one it is? Tell me the shortcut. Tell me how to get there. How do I know if I'm scared of applying for a new job (hypothetically speaking) because that job might put me at risk of serious injury, versus, I'm scared to apply for a job because it's a career change and that feels uncomfortable?

Jen: Yeah. Or you might not get it. You know? They might not choose you.

Pete: Right. The fear of, "What if they might say no?" Yeah. I was randomly thinking of someone like applying to be a death-defying paraglider or something.

Jen: Actually, side note, one of my dearest, dearest friends, Seth, is a stuntman. And he lights himself on fire for work.

Pete: Oh my gosh.

Jen: What?

Pete: This is my guy, then. This is who I'm talking about, Seth. Is it that I'm afraid because I actually am about to light myself on fire if I get this job, or is it that I'm afraid because I might not get the job?

Jen: Yeah. So, you know, so many of the choices or the decisions that we make, from the macro to the micro, from the urgent to the important, have some element of fear in the decision making. And, you know, when I'm talking to singers, we're talking about like literal harm that could come to your body, versus, it's just scary to do that. And so, the tangible consequences maybe are clearer. But like all the decisions that we make, we're moving through fear. And sometimes, that fear likes to disguise itself and make you think that it's like really taking care of you. But it really isn't. Like I'll use myself as an example, Pete. On a recent episode, we talked about what nonsense is going on with the building that my studio is located in, and like what am I going to do about it and what decisions do I have to make? And just having this reminder today has already helped me start clarifying how I want to think about decision making. Because I do have a lot of fear about making the wrong decision. The truth is that fear is keeping me stuck. It is not fear that's keeping me safe. Any of the decisions I have before me, I can figure out how to work with. Like, nothing's going to hurt me here. But some of the options have started to masquerade as like, "I shall harm you." And it really won't.

Pete: It really won't, yeah. The thing I'm writing down, I wrote like "real versus imagined". That we are confronted in situations like these, with real fears or real risks and imagined fears or imagined risks. And the imagined ones, for me, feel like where I get tripped up. Because, like the example you used, nothing I'm doing really has got that much risk. My safety is not really at risk with the decisions that I'm making to run leadership development programs. Let's be real. Let's be real. Let's be real. Recently, we talked in another episode about me reconsidering my writing practice and whether I should go back to doing a weekly blog. And I shared that one of the things I used to use the process of writing for was to show myself that I'm not going to die when I share something with the world in blog form. And that was deliberately hyperbolic, but it is exactly what we're talking about. That I like to prove to myself each week that the fear that I might feel from writing a blog post is a fear that keeps me stuck if I don't do anything about it, not a fear of my safety. And I would remind myself of that by putting something into the world in blog form every week and going, "Oh, yeah, I'm still safe. I'm still okay. Everything is as it were." So for me, it was like a practice of dealing with the fear that is keeping you stuck. I'm just kind of connecting that dot now.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: Because this is sort of me shortcutting the challenge in my head of, so how do I get better at dealing with the fear of being stuck? For me, you get better by practicing dealing with the fear of being stuck.

Jen: Right, right. Oh, isn't that one of life's sick jokes? That the way to deal with fear is to put yourself in situations where you'll feel it.

Pete: Yeah. And then, the other part of the sick joke is how quickly it returns. Because you stop writing a blog, in my case, because you have a toddler and you want to focus on being a dad. And then, you're like, "Hmm, I'm reconsidering my writing practice." And that fear is just as strong as it was the very first time I started. Like, but didn't I practice this? Haven't we talked about this? Isn't this meant to be something that I have gotten on top of? Nope, nope, nope, nope. It's a practice.

Jen: Right. I'm struck by the fact that you were connecting fear and risk to each other. And that, to me, just feels like a great reframe. That if I am feeling afraid of something, I might be able to connect to the idea of being willing to take a risk. I don't know. Something about that feels very empowering to me, where like the, "I am afraid," sometimes makes me feel disempowered. The like, "I'm taking a risk right now," feels kind of empowering. So, I just wanted to call that out.

Pete: Yeah, yeah. This is so crunchy, as it were, a crunchy noodle. I have not even thought about this or boiled the kettle to pour the water in to stir the cup of noodles, to start saying this is a live noodle. This is a very raw thought. But there's something perhaps in the distinction between the fear of the process or the fear of the outcome, and the risk being more of a process thing that I can control. That feels more empowering, versus the outcome. Like, "I didn't get the job," is the fear that is so unknown and outside my control. So, it's easier to stop yourself doing something because of some feared outcome that you cannot control. I don't even know if that makes any sense.

Jen: It does. It just is immediately bringing up for me a conversation I had with one of the people who was in the room today. She arrived and said to me, "Jen, I am so scared for class today." And I was like, "Really? You're one of the best singers I've ever heard. Like, what are you talking about? You're so amazing." And she was like, "I am afraid because I know how to make a really good product. But this class today is about investigating your process. And I'm scared of process." And I was like, "Woah, that is really fascinating." But to the point of this entire conversation, you know, I made the comment about, "Is this the fear of keeping yourself safe or the fear of keeping yourself stuck?" She did the class. At the end of class, she was like, "Oh my gosh, I had so much fun. I unlocked so many things. It's amazing to me that three hours ago, I was afraid."

Pete: Yeah. And that is so energizing. I don't know if I've ever said this before to you. One of the quirky fears that I have...so ridiculous...is making phone calls.

Jen: It's generational.

Pete: I think it's generational. It's also a running joke in my family though, that my sister and my brother and maybe less so my mom, but we often joke about like we'll text each other and go, "Oh, I just called the power company to talk about my bill, which I've been putting off for seven weeks. And I feel so energized because I did the scary thing. I picked up the phone and made a phone call." And it's the most ridiculous version of what your client just described, where you go, "I'm too afraid of making this phone call." It's some ridiculous story that I tell myself. That it's going to be uncomfortable. It's going to be awkward. They can ask me a question, and I'm not going to know the answer. It's a whole process. I can't be bothered. I just won't do it. I'll kick it down the road. And then, you do it. And it's like, all of a sudden, you've just run a marathon. You're like, "Oh my god, I can achieve anything because I made a phone call."

Jen: Right?

Pete: There's a euphoria that comes on the other side of these fears.

Jen: This morning I was listening to a podcast about public speaking. And one of the people on the show does a lot of public speaking. And she says that she's terrified of public speaking, but her job requires her to do it a lot. And that, she has all this buildup every single time before she does an event, where she's like, "Oh, this is scary. I hate this. I don't want to do this." And then, she does it. And as she's exiting the stage, she's like, "I love it. It's so fun."

Pete: It's so true. I get that so much. To the point, when I had one of my first jobs as an account manager where I had a series of pretty big clients in Australia, I'd have to call them to have a conversation with them about a pretty routine thing that we were doing as part of our service. I would book a meeting room. I would go to the meeting room. I would book it for an hour and I would walk around the meeting room for twenty minutes, trying to psych myself up to make this phone call. And I booked the meeting room because I didn't want anyone to listen. I could have just picked up my phone at my desk, back in the day when we had phones at our desk. And I would come out of that meeting room like I had just done the most incredible thing ever. It's so pathetic. I love it. But I get that. You walk off stage and you're like, "Yes, I love this. This is the best feeling ever. I love making phone calls. I can just make all the phone calls right now. This is so easy."

Jen: You know, it's making me think about Mel Robbins' Five Second Rule. That when you're in that conference room that you booked, walking around in circles, you've made the decision because you've booked the room that you're going to make a phone call. So, this is for future Pete to listen to. Get in the room, walk for five seconds, make the call.

Pete: Yeah, I think she says you have to count down from five.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: Like, you can't count the other way. It has to stop at one.

Jen: Yeah. Five, four, three, two, one, call.

Pete: Pick up the phone. Oh my god, I'm getting nervous just thinking about that. I'm just imagining myself in that. I can feel it so viscerally, being in those meeting rooms. It's also just wild how much fear plays a role in our lives. I mean, it's not wild in the sense that, biologically, it makes so much sense.

Jen: So much sense.

Pete: However, in the modern world, the reality of the fear that we experience in the day-to-day for a very large percentage of the population is almost always the fear that's keeping you stuck. Like there aren't that many day-to-day experiences that we can have, living in a modern Western city, that are a fear of keeping you safe. There are no tigers out in Brisbane or in New York. There are no wild animals that are going to come and attack us. There's so few risks that we should be afraid of or fearful of. And yet, everyone listening to this, I'm sure, has had some sort of fear today.

Jen: Oh, all day, every day. Basically, I'm a walking around bundle of fear. A bundle of fear.

Pete: A backpack of fear on my back always, yeah.

Jen: And Pete, sometimes these things are so small, but they bring up such big feelings. Didn't you recently say that you had read a book called Small Person, Big Feelings?

Pete: Little People, Big Feelings. Yeah.

Jen: Yeah. I kind of feel like this is little fear, big feelings. Like, here's an example. And the actors who are in our listenership are going to laugh at this, because it's so true. When you finish an audition and someone says, "Thank you," that basically means, "Thank you. This audition is over." It's not a dig. It's not a criticism. It's just like, "That's what we need." So many actors respond to the, "Thank you," with a, "Thank you." So the people behind the table say, "Thank you." And the actor goes, "Thank you." And I suggest (I'm not even recommending, I'm just making a suggestion) that you could respond with, "You're welcome." Someone says, "Thank you." And you go, "You're welcome." When I tell you, Pete, that when I say that in a class, a gasp goes through the room. Because the thought of saying, "You're welcome," in an audition is so scary to people.

Pete: Really? Wow.

Jen: That is like little thing, big fear.

Pete: Big feeling. That's amazing. And from someone not in that world, I'm like, there's no fear at all. Of course you would say, "You're welcome." Why is there any fear associated with that? That makes no sense to me. That's so funny.

Jen: Yeah. And so, that would be a moment where we could pull out this filter and say, "Is that fear keeping you stuck or is that fear keeping you safe? Oh, that fear is keeping you stuck. So, are you willing to risk saying, ‘You're welcome,’ the next time someone says, ‘Thank you.’”

Pete: Yes. Do it.

Jen: And to your point about blog writing, see if you're still alive after that.

Pete: Right. Walk out of the room and go, "Am I still alive? Yeah." I mean, you walked out of the room. So let me, spoiler alert, you're alive. One of the things I love about this conversation is this lesson that I keep learning as it relates to fear, which is it's so useful to talk about it, to name it, to hear other people's quirky fears, and to almost make a light of some of these, like the "you're welcome", like the phone call.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: And in doing so, you realize that you're not uniquely flawed or unqualified because you're afraid. In fact, you're a human who cares because you are afraid.

Jen: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.