The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 390 - Normal

Transcript:

Pete: Hey, Jen.

Jen: Hey, Pete.

Pete: Well, I made it through. I'm on the other side of two weeks of recovering from tonsil surgery.

Jen: Ah, welcome back.

Pete: Which, sidebar, I would not recommend to a single soul out there. That was...that was a journey.

Jen: Oh no, I'm so sorry.

Pete: Anyway, I found myself asking doctors, nurses, myself, and AI the same question over and over and over again during these two weeks. And I want to unpack it a little, because I feel like there's something in there that might be interesting.

Jen: Was the question, "When will this end?"

Pete: "When will the pain stop?" No, it wasn't. I mean, that was one of the questions. The question was, "Is this normal?"

Jen: This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Pete: So, you can imagine why one might ask this question after surgery. You know? There's, "I can taste blood. Is this normal?" "I'm in a lot of pain. Is this normal?" "I feel like I need to, you know, eat, but I don't want to eat. Is this normal?" All these kinds of obvious questions that one might ask, having gone through a procedure like a tonsil surgery. And it got me thinking about normal. And maybe I would couch that also in the idea of average, though I'm not convinced they're the same thing. But I found myself longing to be normal and have a normal response, an average response to a procedure, so that I would have a normal / average recovery, i.e. not a complicated recovery, and I would be better sooner. And I got to thinking, when is normal a good thing? And when is normal something that we want to try and transcend, and do something better? Is this making any sense? I did write this down when I was high on painkillers, full disclosure, so I don't know if this makes any sense.

Jen: Oh my gosh, Pete. I have to say, it really, really resonates as a central question to existing as a person.

Pete: Right, right. So true. Oh my god.

Jen: Wow.

Pete: But can you also not think of moments where you're like, "Oh, no, I don't want to be normal." Like, you're not working with normal kinds of creatives, in the sense that they're extraordinary. They are in the top, I don't know, 0.5% of what they do in their industry. And that is not normal. And yet, within that life and that career, of course, we long to be normal, in some respect. So it's like there's this weird, I don't know, tension or dichotomy that I'm just like throwing around.

Jen: Wow. Okay. So to just pull that thread for a second, you're right. My clients are not normal. But neither are yours. I mean, people who are at the top of whatever they do, that's not normal. But among their peers, it's very normal.

Pete: Hmm. So normal is relative, in a sense, I guess.

Jen: Normal is relative, in that sense. But what struck me about the question of, "Is this normal," is, "I'm feeling nervous about doing this for the first time. Is that normal?" "I'm feeling intimidated by walking into this room of very powerful people. Is that normal?" "I kind of don't want to audition for this thing. I kind of want to pass. Is that normal?"

Pete: Right. Yeah. "I feel super uncomfortable that I have to have this conversation with my manager. Is that normal?"

Jen: Right. So it reminds me a lot, actually, of "normalizing" imposter syndrome, which you do so beautifully in your TED Talk. Which, listeners, if you haven't watched it, watch it: The Imposter Two-Step, starring Peter Shepherd. But this thing of like, "Ooh, I'm feeling like I haven't earned this or I don't belong here. Everyone's going to find out I'm not as good as they think I am. Is that normal?" And the answer is, "Yeah."

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: "It is." If you can do a TED Talk about it, it's normal.

Pete: Right. It feels like normal gets a bad rap.

Jen: Right.

Pete: At least, maybe I've given normal a bad rap. I think about maybe it's the counterculture person in me, where I'm like, "No, I don't want to live a normal life. I want to do things differently. And I want to challenge this assumption. And I want to run my own business." And I want all these things, that I'm like, "Yeah, I'm going to do it." But then, at the end of the day, I definitely want normality in so many aspects of my life. I remember when Tracey and I were having Ollie, and our obstetrician was like, "Oh, you guys are boring. You guys are average. The pregnancy is so normal. It's such a piece of cake for me." And she was like, "Normal is good, when it comes to a pregnancy. Average is good. Boring is good." And we were like, "Oh, great. Average, boring, normal. We want this. This is great. Uncomplicated is a good thing." And yet, I don't know, for some reason, I feel like we often have negative associations with normal.

Jen: Well, this also points to, at least in the tonsillectomy scenario, that information is very helpful. That without information, we create stories. We make up shit, when we don't know what's what. So it's like, "Okay, I'm tasting blood. This must mean the end is near."

Pete: Yeah. "I'm dying."

Jen: "I must be wrong or bad." And then, it turns out, "Oh, no, that's normal. You have two wounds in your throat."

Pete: 100%. Yeah.

Jen: "That cannot be bandaged."

Pete: So, this is where I found AI to be remarkably helpful.

Jen: Ooh, say more.

Pete: I had a bunch of documents from my surgeon. I'll just keep using this example. Because you can apply it to other things, but let's use it for now. I uploaded all the fact information, the what-to-expect documents into an AI and said, "I'm having this procedure. Can you break down for me what you hear, and what I should be taking notice of, based on these documents and also your understanding and research within the copious amounts of data available online about tonsillectomies? And can you give me a day-by-day breakdown of what I can expect?" And it was crazy, how helpful this thing was. It was like, "Day One: Here's what you can expect. There'll be a little bit of blood. You'll feel this pain. You'll probably be prescribed these particular meds. The surgeon sheet that you shared with me says to watch out for blah, blah, blah." And so, I printed this out and had this on the fridge. And I was like, "Day One. Okay, this is what I can expect." So it was helping me answer this question of, "Hmm, is this normal? Let me go check that sheet." I know it is imperfect. And I know AI makes mistakes, and I know there's hallucinations. But it was information, to your point, that helped me validate or reassure certain things, before I went to the, "I'm going to die. I need to call the nurse and the doctor." And it was crazy helpful. I actually...this is such an aside. This is a little sidebar. But I sent this sheet to my mom, to ease her anxiety. And she was so blown away by how amazing this surgeon was, that had written me up a day-by-day plan. And then, I had gotten into this conversation trying to explain to my mom that it was actually AI, and she didn't understand it. It was a whole...she was like, "I don't understand. I thought you had the world's best surgeon, that wrote down, 'Every single day, here's what to expect.'" I was like, "I mean, he was great. But not that great."

Jen: Oh my gosh.

Pete: Yeah. It was crazy helpful. So all of that to say, I agree with you about like without information, we create stories. I think that is one of the most profound like nuggets of wisdom. And so, how might we get information that helps us tell a different story or a story that is more reassuring because it's "normal"?

Jen: This is making me want to talk about how important community is.

Pete: Say more.

Jen: I'm thinking, right now, about the actors I work with and the exponential growth I see them experience when they are learning in community versus in a one-on-one situation with me. When they see other people who do what they do, get up in front of people...like, this happened today in class. Someone got up and said, "I was checking my heart rate before I got up. And I'm going to be checking my heart rate during my work session, because I'm trying something new." And you could just sort of see everyone in the room be like, "Okay, wait. Wait. I'm not weird for feeling like my heart is racing before I get up? Oh. That is so great." Or if someone gets up and is like, "Wow. I can sing this at home. But like, when I'm in front of all of you, it goes right out the window." And you sort of feel the room be like, "Oh, well, I've experienced that too. I guess maybe that's normal."

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: It's the ability to be in community with other people, I guess, who are willing to talk to you and tell the truth. It's really helpful.

Pete: Well, I agree. And it's like an act of vulnerability. It's like, that vulnerability in a community creates connection. And that connection helps us with reassurance, with self-doubt, with imposter syndrome, with all sorts of things when we realize that the thing that we're experiencing, the doubt that we're experiencing, the story that we're telling is not some flaw that's only unique to us. It's actually a normal experience being shared by our cohort, being shared by our community.

Jen: Okay, so I have a very crunchy noodle. It might still be in the box.

Pete: Okay.

Jen: But in the context that we are using the word "normal" right now, it feels like the opposite of it might not be "abnormal". It feels like maybe there are a variety of antonyms or things on the other end of the spectrum. For example, you earlier used the word "extraordinary". Which, it just feels important to call that out because my gut instinct is like, "Well, what's the opposite of normal? Abnormal," said intentionally with a point of view that is negative.

Pete: Yeah, yeah. No, I think of it as...this is why I said maybe they're interchangeable, I don't know, normal and average. That I think of it as, like the oversimplified version, normal is in the middle of a bell curve or a continuum. And then, you have something on the left of that and something on the right of that, and probably a whole bunch of things on the left of it and a whole bunch of things on the right of it. Something can be average, something can be slightly below average, something can be very much below average, something can be slightly above average, something can be very much above average. In my head, I think of it as like normal is the middle part of that. You know that distribution curve, like the bell curve?

Jen: Mmm-hmm. But sometimes, Pete, not being normal is a really incredible thing.

Pete: Totally. That's why I think that I was giving normal a bad rap. Because I'm with you. I'm like, "I want to be, for whatever benefit and I don't know why, I like the idea of not being normal." There's a very prominent mindset coach / author / speaker, Ben Crowe, here in Australia, who has just released a book. I'll put a link to it in the Box O' Goodies. But one of the things he talks about is, "Embrace your weird." Owning the fact that you're not normal, in certain respects, is really powerful. I absolutely buy into that. Own the extraordinary part of you. Own the quirky part of you. That is a good thing. Enter: Seth Godin. This is the other thing I needed to mention, that relates to this. He wrote a post that happened to fall...I think it was just before I had my surgery, so it must have been in my mind. It's called Room Temperature. I'm going to put a link to it in the Box O' Goodies. It was one of those Seth Godin posts that I was like, "God dammit, I'm bookmarking that. That is so good." I will paraphrase my version of it. But essentially, he talks about the idea that left alone, a hot cup of coffee will eventually cool, until it reaches room temperature. Stable systems regress to the mean, is how he described it. Systems eventually will regress to the mean. And the last line in this post is, "Sooner or later, unless you push back, you will end up at room temperature." And I was like, "Oh, that's what I'm talking about." Sooner or later, unless you push back, you regress to the mean. That is the average. That is the normal. Because that's what happens to a cup of coffee or a human who doesn't push back, who doesn't challenge their thoughts, who doesn't challenge other people or ideas. We regress to the mean, which is the average of the people that we surround ourselves with. Now, if you're surrounded by incredible, awesome people that inspire you and that you love, great. Amazing. But if you're not, if you're in a system or a group of people or a community that doesn't fire you up, that you don't aspire to be in, and you don't do anything about it, you don't push back, you will regress to kind of being like those people.

Jen: Wow. Pete, I am shook to the core.

Pete: This post shook me so hard. Then, the last little bit he had in like parentheses at the end, which also made me think, "God dammit, that is so true, and a risk of using technology like AI." So he said, "(As I write this, the built-in grammar tool has made suggestions to every single sentence, pushing it to make it sound less like me and more like normal.)"

Jen: Woah.

Pete: And I was like, "God damn, that's what those tools do. They try and make things sound like a normal paragraph, whatever that means, an average paragraph." And part of me thinks about the technology that I was referring to earlier, that I was leveraging for good use, AI, it might be pushing me to have a normal recovery. But like, what if I'd said, "How could I fast track this recovery? Give me a breakdown on what that looks like. Give me the above average recovery. What can I do to make that?" And it might've been like, "Oh, you could actually recover from this in ten days, if you did these three things." (I have no idea.) But there are other ways of pushing at these things, that would allow us to not just end up, in Seth's language, at room temperature.

Jen: Pete, I'm never going to look at my microwave the same way again. Because I do heat up my coffee a couple times while I'm drinking it, because it keeps falling to room temp, and I'm pushing back against that. But I really do believe now, my microwave in the corner here is a metaphor for how I want to exist in the world. But it also makes me want to remind you that your body is a system, and that your system, in its healing process, is returning to the mean.

Pete: Right. Oh dear. I don't even know how to respond to that right now. It is returning back to average, the average, for me, of what it was.

Jen: Right. It's so wild. This conversation really...I'm thinking about like a Looney Tunes cartoon right now, where a character is doing like a really fast double take, looking in both directions to like see many things. Because I feel like every single thing we've said, we've also said the exact opposite. And then, we've said the opposite of that and the opposite of that. And what a cool way to re-conceive the word "normal".

Pete: Right. And you can see why I had such a reaction. Because I read this post prior to my surgery, and I was like, "Yeah. Push back. Don't be normal. Don't be average." Then, I had surgery, and I was like, "Is this normal? Is this normal? Somebody, please tell me I'm normal."

Jen: Well, Pete, I'll tell you. You're normal and you're also extraordinary. And that is The Long and The Short Of It.