The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 412 - Counting Strokes

Transcript:

Pete: Hey, Jen.

Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: I'm back again with some lessons from my swimming coach that I've been noodling on, thinking about, trying to implement with great difficulty. And I need your help understanding these and how they might translate to things beyond swimming freestyle.

Jen: It never ceases to amaze me how relevant sports ideas are to the work we do. So, let's get into it. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Pete: I'm so glad you said that. You know, sometimes you come across people and they're like, "I'm sick of sports metaphors." And I'm like, "What do you mean? There's so much to learn."

Jen: I am not sick of it.

Pete: There's so much to learn from sports metaphors, or training, or coaching. Anyway, so listeners of the show may remember an episode we did, oh gosh, I guess it was probably over a year ago now, called Six Strokes.

Jen: I think it was like two years, maybe longer.

Pete: Oh, wow. Okay. That's wild. So in the episode Six Strokes, I shared that I've been doing some work with a swimming coach. Her name is Tracey Baumman, and she's incredible. And the fun story to that is I was actually introduced to her via Instagram DM from a listener of our podcast, which is so cool. Turns out, total luck, she's arguably one of the best swim coaches in the world. She's worked with people who swim the English Channel. She's worked in the UK. She's worked in the US. She's working in Australia right now. She's worked right around the world. And I just happened to stumble into her orbit. She's incredible. And part of what makes her incredible is she has these seemingly counterintuitive ways of breaking down swimming and freestyle and skill learning into super small bite-sized chunks. So in the episode that we recorded (apparently almost two years ago) called Six Strokes, I was sharing that she was forcing me to swim six strokes at a time, then stop and reset and focus on things like the way my scapula moves and the way my fingernails point. I'm pretty sure that's what we would have talked about. Does that sound right?

Jen: Yep, it does.

Pete: Alright. So in my latest sessions with her, she always opens with, "How's everything going?" And I was lamenting the fact that I don't feel like I'm getting faster, and I want to be faster and I want to be a stronger swimmer, and I feel like I'm not getting faster. And the short version of what happened in the lesson that I learned is, she said, "Okay, well, in order to get faster, I need you to take your watch off. I need you to stop looking at the clock. Stop trying to get faster. And instead, I need you to count the amount of strokes that it takes you from one end of the pool to the other. And at the end of the pool, I want you to have a notepad. And all I want you to do at the end of each lap is to pause and to write down the number of strokes. And then, do the next one. And do the next one. And do the next one. And I promise you, Pete, if you just do this for a few weeks, you will get faster. Stop chasing speed. Let the speed come to you." And I was like, "Okay. That feels hard. That feels counterintuitive." So, I've been taking my watch off. I'm putting it next to the pool. I'm not looking. And I'm counting the amount of strokes I'm doing. And I haven't validated it yet. However, I can tell that I am swimming faster and stronger. And I'm like, "What is happening? How is this happening? What's the learning here? There's something in there about process versus outcome, I'm sure. And what is Jen Waldman going to make of this?" So, that's the context. I'm counting strokes, as opposed to timing my laps. And it's having a profound impact on my swimming, I think.

Jen: Woah, my mind is shooketh.

Pete: How come? Why? Tell me more. Tell me more.

Jen: Well, okay, so many things to unpack here. The first is that you weren't talking about how many strokes it takes you to get across a pool. You were talking about how quickly you could get across the pool.

Pete: Right.

Jen: And so, what she's asking you to do is focus on something else very specific that is related, but not the thing you thought you were supposed to be paying attention to. Okay, so that's the first thing.

Pete: Which is so hard, by the way. The amount of times I get halfway through the lap and I'm like, "Damn it. Was it twelve? Was it thirteen? Was it fifteen?" And then, I have to start again at the next lap. You know?

Jen: Well, that was going to be my next point.

Pete: Oh. Okay, okay.

Jen: You need something outside yourself to tell you how fast you're going or how much time has elapsed, but you have the power to count your own strokes. And there is something about the focus that that takes where it is occupying one of these thought loops in your mind. It's taking...neuroscientists, don't come for me right now. It feels like it's taking energy that would be spent worrying about speed and putting it towards something that you could actually control, which is counting the number of strokes.

Pete: Absolutely. I mean, knowing her, that is exactly what she would be hoping happens. And part of the reasoning that she gave me is, yes, you might be swimming a lap and you might be chasing speed, and so you're worrying and you're thinking about that, which means you're not thinking about what your stroke's doing. And you don't get the feedback until you hit the wall at the end. Versus if you're counting strokes and you're noticing like, "Huh, I'm usually around about this part of the pool after six strokes and now I'm only on five, so that's feedback that things are going well. I need to keep dialing into that." Or, "I'm usually at about five and I'm at eight, so I've lost something here." So you're getting like real-time feedback, in the moment, as you're swimming up and down, which doesn't happen when you're just looking at the clock, because you can't see the clock underwater.

Jen: So good. It's so good. I feel like the other thing that she is teaching you is patience.

Pete: Oh, yeah, for sure.

Jen: There is something about our dopamine-addicted culture that has started to remove our ability to be patient and let things take as long as they take in order for them to be done well. And you might be able to like haul ass across the pool for one lap.

Pete: Right.

Jen: If you're training with this coach, it sounds like you want to do that more than once.

Pete: Right. And part of her philosophy is that this is practicing a skill, not training for fitness. That's her kind of idea, of when you go into the pool, you should leave the pool a better swimmer than when you got in it. And you shouldn't necessarily be huffing and puffing and, you know, wheezing because you absolutely destroyed yourself, swimming as fast as you possibly can. There's a whole bunch of physics to this...which again, just like the neuroscientists, physicists, don't come for me. When you try and swim fast or do anything fast, you know, your body tenses up, your muscles contract, you do all these things that aren't actually conducive to moving efficiently through, in this case, water. And so, it's counterintuitive to the thing that you actually want.

Jen: I don't know why, Pete, this just sent my brain on a tangent. So I'm just going to follow it, get it out of the way, and then we can get back on track. Which is, in the world of theater, we have these things we call "quick changes", where you exit the stage in one costume and then momentarily reappear in an entirely different costume.

Pete: And so, this is the thing as an audience member where you're like, "What? How did they just do that? Like, that person was just wearing a red dress and now they're in like, you know, a black swimsuit. Like, how did that happen?"

Jen: Yeah. And a lot of times for women, this includes a hair change and a shoe change, sometimes makeup too. And just the thing that's so funny, that what you just said reminded me of, is if you try to rush during a quick change, you will never get onstage in time. But if you just relax and go through the steps, you will be there with a couple seconds to spare. You might even get to take a sip of water. But the second you rush, you are not getting onstage in time. It's so fascinating.

Pete: That's the same thing.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: Like, this is super interesting for me as it relates to my swimming. And I'm enjoying the process of being like, "Huh." At some point, I am going to time myself, because I want to know.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: But I'm holding off. But like, how is this / where is this also relevant in the work we do? Semi-recently, we did an episode called Zone 2, where we talked about, you know, the different heart rates that one can train at. And how, in the work that we do, we often run around in Zone 5, which is like, you know, you're maxing out your heart rate all the time. And that doesn't lend itself to being able to recover and continue to back up the work you do. So I'm sort of looking for the, what's the metaphor or the learning that applies to the work we do, the people we lead, the creative lives that we pursue? And is it as simple as process versus outcome? Like, what's the outcome you seek? You know, to be faster in a pool? Okay. But what's the process that is going to enable you to get there? Simply trying to create the outcome with no process is a fool's errand.

Jen: I'm probably saying exactly what you said, but just in different words. The thing that really strikes me about this is, are you focusing on something that is actually going to move you in the direction you want? Or are you being seduced by something that looks like it might move you in the right direction? So, your watch, for example, is seducing you.

Pete: Right.

Jen: It's like, "I can time you, Pete," because that's what seductive watches sound like.

Pete: That's exactly what mine sounds like. How did you know?

Jen: And so, she's not saying, "Stop looking at your watch." She says, "Literally, take your watch off."

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: "Remove it from the environment."

Pete: Remove the temptation. Yeah.

Jen: Remove the temptation. And then, focus on the one thing that is going to actually help move you toward where you want to go, which, in this case, is counting your strokes. And it's possible that when (I don't know, you'll see in the future) she feels you've made sufficient progress on this, the focus may shift to the next thing that may help you make the progress. So, I'm thinking of this in the business context. It is very easy to be distracted by a lot of little things, and maybe miss the main thing. This is true in relationships, too. I found myself recently just telling people, "Have the conversation. Have the conversation." That is the equivalent of counting your strokes. "You're talking about all these other extraneous things. The one thing you could be doing on a regular basis, to get to where you want to go, is have the conversation."

Pete: That's some pretty solid life advice. I can't remember who said this, "The quality of your life is determined by the amount of uncomfortable conversations you're going to have."

Jen: Oh my gosh. I feel like that is so true.

Pete: We're so good at avoiding them. Yeah. I love that idea, "Have the conversation." I also am like, there's something for me about the external validation that we seek, that is not useful or not required to progress in certain things. So like, the external validation of the watch at the end of the pool, going, "Yeah, Pete. You did swim faster." It's like, why do you need that? When, if you count your strokes, honestly, you can just feel it. You just feel like you're moving smoother, faster, better through the water. It's so obvious, that you go, "Oh, that was definitely quicker. Even though I don't know for sure, that was definitely better." And so, you know, I could think about myself in so many examples, where...I mean, I'm a sucker for external validation. I love a good like, "Hey, Pete, great workshop. Thank you so much." I'm like, "Ooh, yeah, I needed that. That was great." Even though I know during a workshop, pretty well, like, "Oh, yeah, this seems to be landing. Or this seems to be not quite landing. So, what am I going to do to change it?" What's the equivalent of that?

Jen: Ooh, that feels very personal to me.

Pete: I could call myself out even more in this. Like before we hopped on, you mentioned there was a workshop you ran and, you know, you got this incredible feedback that it was like life-giving. And you were partly joking, but I have no doubt that was also serious because I know the workshops that you run. One of the untanglings I've had to do over the last, god, ten years or something I guess (which is wild), is when I was head coach and coach of the AltMBA, the Seth Godin workshop where you and I first met. I helped run it, I don't know, thirty-something times for thousands of people around the world. That workshop was very transformative for a lot of people, myself included.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: And we used to hear feedback like that all the time, like, "Oh my god, this workshop has helped me see things I can't unsee. This workshop has helped me quit my job and get a better job. Oh my god, this workshop has changed my life." That was kind of just par for the course at the end of this workshop. It was crazy. And when I'm running my own workshops in corporates, intellectually, I know that's not the bar you can chase, because that is not a bar that is attainable every single time. But I'd be lying if I didn't say to you, there are times where I'm like, "Oh, that's the outcome I want. That's the time on the clock. I want someone to say, 'That was the greatest workshop I ever attended.'" And it's dumb. It's so dumb. But it's a part of the human experience to go, "Where am I seeking external validation? And how can I not? Instead, look for something internal." For me, I'm like, "What's the equivalent of counting strokes in the workshop I'm doing or the coaching that I'm doing?"

Jen: What that just made me think of is, you know, in this case, we're saying, "Poo-poo the watch. Turn off the timer. It's not about the timing." But if I was coaching someone who was delivering a keynote, and it felt like they were going on and on and on with a story, I might actually time them and say, "I want you to tell me this story again. I want you to trim ten seconds, without going faster. I want you to trim another ten seconds, without going faster. Get the ideas more concise. Cut the fluff." Like, all of that. A timer would be useful in that scenario. It's just, it's fascinating, the tools we have and when we are best served by using them.

Pete: Totally. I guess it's all contextual, right? I mean, there is a world where the time that you swim is actually relevant. If someone who's swimming for, I mean, The Commonwealth Games are about to wrap up...which probably means nothing to an American, I realize.

Jen: No idea what the heck you're talking about.

Pete: It's like the very, very light version of The Olympic Games. And there's a bunch of swimming going on. And clearly, the person who swims the fastest time is the winner of the race. So, there is a world where time matters to some degree or is useful as a tool. And maybe in this context, the usefulness of the tool is it's not serving you to chase it. And maybe there is a time or a world or a swimmer where actually it does serve you to go, "You're so dialed in to counting your strokes that it comes so naturally to you, where, yeah, now it would be useful for you to time it, so that you can swim on the minute, every minute, for the next, whatever, 500 meters."

Jen: Wow, I'm really jazzed by your coach.

Pete: Oh, she's the best.

Jen: Has she considered doing any one-on-one personal development coaching? Because I feel like she's got a lot of insights to offer.

Pete: So often, we're like, you know, standing by the pool after a little session, and she goes, "I feel like you know this. Why am I telling you this?" And I'm like, "I know, but it's useful to hear it from other people. I need to hear this from other people." And you know, like you said, coaches have coaches too. She also said, "I've been using you as an example in all these podcasts I've been interviewed in, about, 'I told him to throw the watch away.'" And I'm like, "Okay, well, it's only fair that I now use you in one of my podcasts." So here we are, Tracey.

Jen: An eye for an eye. And that is The Long and The Short Of It.