The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 44 - Running

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, listeners. As we approach the one-year mark for The Long and The Short Of It, we want to thank you so much for making this podcast possible. It is because of you that we show up every week. And we love getting your emails, your messages with feedback, questions, ideas- keep them coming. We so appreciate it. And thank you for listening.

Pete: Yes, thank you, listeners. And happy anniversary, Jen. And happy anniversary to all of you who have been listening. If you are out there and you are interested in finding out more, you can go to our website, thelongandtheshortpodcast.com, where we have transcripts, where we have contact forms, where you can send us a question. And we also have the ability to sign up for our Box O' Goodies, which will be coming out from August- a weekly email into your inbox full of podcasts, recommendations, books, blogs, ideas, and maybe even insights from you, our listeners. So if you want to head there and sign up, that would be amazing. Also, if you are enjoying the episodes, please take a screenshot and send them to a friend, and help us find more amazing listeners like you. Thank you, thank you.

Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: Hello, Jen.

Jen: We are recording this in the beautiful month of July, or the frozen month of July "down-under".

Pete: I mean, it's beautiful for some, right? It's freezing, and dark, and cold over here.

Jen: Well, it is gorgeous here. And because of that, I am doing my whole running situation every morning, up and at 'em. And I had an a-ha moment about the demons in my head while I'm running, the way I combat them, and the milestones I set. And I thought, "I bet this applies to life.".

Pete: Okay. Demon hunting, if you will. Let's do it. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Jen: Okay, so I took up this running practice...maybe it was like a year and a half ago, something like that. Anyway, I don't enjoy running. I don't take any pleasure in it. Someday when we have more time, I can give the long version of the story as to why I even started running. But essentially, it was because we had an incident on the beach where my daughter ran up ahead of me and I couldn't catch her, and then she ran out of sight on a beach that had no lifeguard. And I decided: better learn how to run faster than her. So, that's what I've been doing. And, from the second I wake up to the time the run is over, I am coming up with excuses to not run. It is unbelievable. So, the first part of this conversation is about how to combat the voices in your head that are trying to steer you away from the thing you intended to do, when you know that intention leads to a positive outcome. So that's the first part. I'm just gonna say all the parts up front, so we make sure to touch on that.

Pete: Let's do it. Get 'em out there.

Jen: Part number two is- one of the methods I'm using while I'm running is to identify something in the distance, and then get to it. And I've noticed myself cheating, and selling myself short of a better experience than the one I'm having. So, I want to talk about that. And then, the third part is- the moment when you realize that on your own, you've taken yourself as far as you can go, and you have to call in some assistance.

Pete: Mmm, I can see how this potentially applies to life, Jen Waldman.

Jen: Should we dig into point number one?

Pete: Let's do it. Tell me about the voices in your head when you're running, and what we can do about them.

Jen: Okay, so I set out my running clothes the night before.

Pete: Oh, nice.

Jen: Because I know that if I wake up and they're not out, that will be an excuse. So that excuse goes out the window. I'm like, "Okay, well, I've done that already. Check.". So then the voices start with: "Well, you said you were going to run for thirty-five minutes, but you ran thirty-five minutes yesterday. So maybe you could just run twenty.". And then I have to really talk myself back into thirty-five minutes, by saying to myself, "What would you tell a client if they came to you with that nonsense?".

Pete: Hmm. I like that.

Jen: Okay, so I started using my clients. Like, "What advice would I give to people I care about?". And then give that advice to myself. So that's been very useful. And then, I run with an app. And I found that...so the program, I do a bunch of different programs. My favorite one is these five-minute then two-minute intervals: five-minute jog, two-minute run, five-minute jog, two-minute run. And in the two-minute run, I was...and during the run, the speed increases every fifteen seconds. And I was like, "Well, as long as you increase your speed once, you don't really have to keep increasing it. I mean, it's faster than the jog. And isn't that the point?". So then, I gave myself an exercise that has really started working. Which is: my clients go into these audition scenarios. And the, the worst auditions, these open calls that they don't have appointments for, but they have to show up for, uninvited, last about two minutes. So, I try to imagine that I am one of my clients. And I go through the entire audition process in my head while I'm running. And each time the person in my app says "increase the speed", I think about how, if I was that client, how might I plus one the experience of being inside the audition room. And that has made the time of the two-minute running intervals really fly by.

Pete: Hmm.

Jen: Okay, I'll stop there and let you comment.

Pete: I mean I've, I've scribbled down a bunch of comments. But what I, what I'm interested in, here, is how this ties into a number of things. So, a few episodes ago we talked about the arena, and how there are people in the basement whose, almost, role and responsibility is to try and trip you up. And in this example that you're using, it's almost like, it's almost a way for you to practice dealing with the basement people, is sort of my first thought. Is this is an exercise...no pun intended, an exercise in practicing discomfort, and practicing dealing with discomfort, and practicing in a really safe environment. Practicing navigating negative self talk, negative feedback to yourself, and how you might overcome that. So I think it's...while it's not necessarily the number one intention of going for a run, because like you mentioned, the number one intention is to get fit so you can chase after your daughter should she run away again. But I think the unintended consequence, perhaps, is this idea of practicing discomfort. And I've talked about this, and part of the reason I have cold showers is practicing discomfort. And I wonder if this is a similar thing for you.

Jen: What's funny- the second you said "arena", I jumped to a different conclusion that I thought you were going to make.

Pete: Ooh, share.

Jen: Which was that I am in the basement of my own arena, sometimes.

Pete: Yeah, you're both in the arena and in the basement, at the same time.

Jen: Well, it's funny because one of the things that I do when I'm in the five-minute jogging interval, when I want to stop, is- I speak to myself out loud. People on the street must think I'm, I don't know, strange. I speak to myself out loud as if I am someone else. So instead of saying, "I will not stop running.". I go, "Jen, you will not stop running. I don't care if it hurts. I don't care if you're tired. You will not stop running. This is a commitment you have made. So follow through with your goldarn commitments.". So I sort of yell at myself in an angry voice from the outside, as if I am talking to Jen, as opposed to speaking as I.

Pete: That's amazing.

Jen: It seems, to me, to put myself back in the arena. And in some cases, in the balcony.

Pete: Right. Yeah. And it also...the other thing that dawns on me, which we've talked about a number of times before (including, I think, in a recent episode around planning) which is- to me, this is just such a Questioner problem. [laughter] So, for context for those wondering, Jen and I have referred to a few times: Gretchen Rubin's framework for how we respond to, and deal with expectations. And there are Four Tendencies, is what she calls them. Upholder, Questioner, Rebel, and...

Jen: Obliger.

Pete: Obliger, that's the one I always forget. And Jen is a textbook Questioner. Which means that she will question everything within an inch of its life until it makes sense to her, before she commits to doing it. And I feel like you do this while you're running. You're, like, questioning everything to do with the run while you're running. So, that was the other thing I wrote down. How do you feel about that?

Jen: That is hilarious. And very true.

Pete: Because what was interesting when you were telling me this story was, I was like, "I don't know if I get it. Just go for the run, Jen. You committed to going for the run.". Which is classic Upholder, which is me.

Jen: Oh my gosh. So one of the, one of the ideas I think I'm implementing here is something I teach in my Shift course, which is: if, then. If ____, then ___. So, if I want to stop running, then I yell at myself in the third person. If I want to get up in the morning and go running, then I lay my clothes out ahead of time. It's like, finding the thing that's going to make the other thing happen, or coming up with a solution before you hit the problem.

Pete: Yeah, exactly. I love that. And I mean, I know we sort of joked about the Tendencies, even though it's, it feels very accurate. But, it's part of knowing that is so that you can intervene, right? Is so that you can shape the experience in a way that you know you'll respond to. So for you- it's yelling to yourself out loud, or putting your clothes out on the floor. For someone else- it's just, like, maybe putting it in their calendar. For someone else- it might be having an accountability partner. For a rebel, I mean, they just kind of have to decide, and then they'll just do it. You know what I mean? Like, it's about understanding what you're motivated by, I guess, and driven by, in order to make yourself do the exercise, or the project, or the thing that you're working on.

Jen: Should we dig into point number two?

Pete: Let's do it. Which was: things in the distance (from memory).

Jen: Yeah. So, the coach on the app gives this great tip...which I think I was doing anyway, but it's nice to hear it validated by someone who's, like, a professional runner. He says, "The great thing about running outdoors is you can see what's up ahead, pick something in the distance, and run to that. Knowing that when you've arrived at the thing, that's distance you've actually covered, and celebrate that milestone.". So this is something that I do, and it does make running easier. I'm like, "Okay- stop sign. Okay- white van. Okay- coffee shop.". (Whatever it is.) But what I found I was doing was identifying the thing I was running to, and then when I was like three-quarters of the way to it, I would then pick the next milestone. And what I realized was that because I was choosing the next milestone so early, when I would arrive at the original milestone there was something better in the distance I could have aimed for. And so now I have a rule with myself, which I'm employing while I'm running, and it has actually made the running much more interesting. But I can see how this would apply to life. That, unless I see a better way to go, I'm not going to celebrate until I get to the original milestone, because then I can see farther into the distance. So today, I picked this intersection up ahead. And about halfway up the block, I realized that there was a garbage truck between myself and the intersection. And I thought, "Do I really want to be running in that smell?". So I thought, "No, I'm going to take the next turn because that's going to be a better way to get where I ultimately want to go.". So that gave me permission to pick a different thing to aim for. But unless I can find a better, more creative, or more interesting, maybe, way of getting where I'm going, I'm going to go where I'm going, and then see what I can see from that spot.

Pete: Mmm. I mean, this has so much application to life. Because I think, as a very blanket statement, we are terrible at celebrating success. Because every time we hit the goal, or get to the flagstick that we're running towards, or the intersection, in your case...we're thinking of the next thing: "Okay. I mean, I'm not even, like, I made it. Obviously I made it, because I always make it. Now what's the next thing?". And that, there is so much, like, just wisdom in this metaphor of- what if you stopped and celebrated when you got to that intersection? Or just stopped to pat yourself on the back? Or just, if you're working on a project and you hit the milestone that you're hoping to hit...rather than looking straight away to the next milestone, what if you just, like, grabbed a glass of champagne, and gave yourself a pat on the back, and celebrated? You know? Because I think we're...I am certainly terrible at celebrating success. And I think, I think it's a problem for a lot of people. Is, we're so driven to think about: "What's next, what's next, what's next? How do I make this better? How do I make this better? How do I do it better next time?". But sometimes it's just worth pausing, to be like, "You know what? I'm proud of how I got to this intersection.". Or, "I'm proud of where I got to this point in my journey.". So, oh, I really like that. I really like that.

Jen: Yeah. It's, it's been interesting because I'm working on a couple different projects at once right now. And I see myself, sort of, applying the shortcut in life. Where it's like, "Okay, I know that by next Friday, I'm going to be at such and such a point. So then, what am I going to do next?". Instead of going, "Okay, let's see what it looks like when I get there. Because I will probably be able to see much farther into the distance, than where I can see today.".

Pete: Amazing. "Let's see what it looks like when we get there." I think that's a really useful frame of reference, when thinking about the work that we do. Should we do point three?

Jen: Yes.

Pete: You've gone as far as you could?

Jen: Yeah. So, I realized that this app that I'm running with is so great. But it has taken me as far as it can go, because my time's not getting any better. And it's because it can't tell me how to make my time better, because it's never seen me run.

Pete: [laughter] Because it's an app.

Jen: You know, like, the feedback that it gives, and the technique points are very broad. They apply to everyone. But they don't necessarily apply to my weaknesses. So, I've made this decision that when I get back to New York City in a couple weeks, I'm hiring a running coach. Because I want to get better, and I don't know how. Like I, there's literally no way for me to help myself beyond where I am at this moment.

Pete: Yeah. Again, I mean, this has so much application to life, right? It's...is being comfortable seeking external support, and coaching. And maybe it's an accountability group, or a mentor, or a friend that you just go for a jog with instead of jogging on your own. Or when you get to that point, like you, if it's not just the accountability of showing up to run, because it sounds like you're getting quite good at hacking that, it's about: "How do I get better?". So I need, I need someone who understands this better than I do, so that they can support me, and help me, and show me how I can improve my technique. Just like...

Jen: Exactly.

Pete: Just like what you do with all of your clients, and what I try and do with my clients.

Jen: Yeah, sometimes you've gotta call in some outside sources.

Pete: Hmm.

Jen: Okay, so circling back...we're maybe going from the finish line to the starting line, which is how my mind likes to work.

Pete: We all know that, now. We all know that.

Jen: When you've taken something as far as you can take it on your own, that doesn't mean that's as far as you can go. It simply means you need some external feedback, and some additional support from someone who knows more than you. When you're looking ahead to see where you're going, actually go there (unless you find a better way). And when the demons in your head tell you to stop running, scream at yourself, in the third person. [laughter]

Pete: And that is The Long and The Short Of It. [laughter]