The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 49 - Capacity vs. Tolerance

Transcript:

Jen: Hello there, listeners. As you know, Pete and I like to practice good finding. And guess what we found? You! All of you who have been such loyal listeners, and who have sent us questions, shared episodes, and brought other listeners into The Long and The Short Of It community. We are so grateful to you. And we hope that you will continue to share your favorite episodes with the people you care about.

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Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: Hello, Jen.

Jen: Coming off of the episode we did recently about risk-stacking, it got me thinking about a concept that I want to unpack today. Which is- the difference between capacity and tolerance.

Pete: Okay, okay, okay. I'm intrigued. Color me curious, as Jen Waldman would say. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Jen: In the world of investing, people talk about the difference between risk tolerance and risk capacity. Essentially, capacity being how much you can actually handle, and tolerance being how much you are willing to handle.

Pete: Hmm.

Jen: And I think that this is an idea, tolerance vs. capacity, that we could apply to so many different facets of our lives. And I want to talk about it, first, as it pertains to taking risks in our lives. Not just financial and investment based risks, but just stepping out of our comfort zone and into the imposter zone we have a certain capacity, we could risk so much. But what we can actually tolerate might be so much less than what we're actually capable of, what we have capacity for. What are your thoughts on that?

Pete: So, what I find interesting about this is, what we're saying is- capacity is almost always, or maybe it is always, higher than tolerance. Is that right?

Jen: I would say...yes, capacity is always greater than or equal to tolerance.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: Whereas tolerance is always lower than or equal to capacity.

Pete: Love it. And so the goal...depending on what this is, obviously, I imagine the goal is to get them as close to equal as possible. Is that what we're saying?

Jen: Ooh, well, the second you said that I hadn't flipped the script yet. But I would say no, that's not always the desire. Because I have a, I have a very high capacity for people who drive me crazy, but I have a very low tolerance.

Pete: [laughter] And that's not such a bad thing.

Jen: [laughter] So, I think what we're talking about are the things that we know are good for us, the things that make us better. How can we increase our tolerance for those things?

Pete: Yes. And you said specifically starting with risks. So, creative risks, or entrepreneurial risks, or fear-based risks come to mind. So maybe we should dig into those.

Jen: Yeah. So, you can think about this in relationship to risk- the trajectory of, "I can't. I can. I did.". When something feels scary, our initial impulse is, "I can't do that". My tolerance for that thing is very, very low. In order to increase your tolerance and actually meet your capacity to do this hard thing, this scary thing, you've got to change the self-talk from "I can't" to "I can". Because once you're able to say "I can", then you can start looking for ways to make that true. So that ultimately, you'll be able to say, "I did".

Pete: Hmm. You know what just dawned on me?

Jen: What?

Pete: You just described what I call the Imposter Two-Step.

Jen: Ooh, yes. A little, little preview of coming attractions.

Pete: Yeah, yeah. So, "I can't" being, I would assert, the first step of the Imposter Two-Step. Which is- your imposter says to you, "You can't do that. You're a fraud.". And then the second step of said Imposter Two-Step, which I name because I think we should dance with our imposter. Which is- "Actually I can.". Which is giving yourself a voice. Which is giving yourself permission, if you like, to increase your tolerance. So that was just an interesting observation.

Jen: And then when you've done the dance, you can say, "I did".

Pete: I danced the tango with my imposter. What of it?

Jen: Ooh, I love that. Connecting the dots today.

Pete: Mmm.

Jen: I like it. Can we look at this through another lens? Like, the capacity to do emotional labor? But the tolerance for emotional labor? Like, our capacity to do the hard part is incredible.

Pete: Yeah, I would say our capacity for emotional labor is almost infinite. And the thing that makes our tolerance so low is ourselves, and our fears, and our doubts, and our insecurities, and our unwillingness to step into the unknown. So it's almost like we are our own biggest roadblock in emotional labor, which isn't probably that groundbreaking an insight. But what I find interesting is your point, which is that our capacity for emotional labor is near infinite, I would imagine.

Jen: That's very inspiring to me. It gives me hope for the future of the world.

Pete: Yeah, me too. [laughter]

Jen: Okay, now let's look at this through yet another lens. You and I, right before we started recording this episode, recorded a live video for some of the artists in my studio. And we were talking about capacity vs. tolerance for being paid well for your work.

Pete: Hmm, tell me more.

Jen: So there is, of course, the myth, the nasty myth perpetuated in the artist community that in order to be an artist, you can't be paid well for your work.

Pete: Which is crazy.

Jen: That only a select few get to actually make a living, make a good living doing what they love. But I want to challenge that notion, and bust that myth, and say our capacity for being paid well for our work is quite large. But our tolerance for it is what's low. It's hard for us to tolerate the idea that someone would find our work so valuable, that they would put a dollar sign on it that makes us uncomfortable.

Pete: Yeah, I would say that...hearing you say that it almost feels like "tolerate" is the wrong word, in that example. It almost feels unfair to say we can't tolerate the idea that our ideas are worth something. I feel like in that example, I want to change the word "tolerate" to the word "believe". That I can't believe. Because tolerate to me feels...just doesn't feel right in that example that you raised. I haven't worked out why yet.

Jen: Oh my gosh, we're...we are ping-ponging the inspiration ball back and forth right now, which I love. So I, earlier today was having a conversation with someone about the different kinds of stories we tell ourselves. The fact stories, the truth stories, and the belief stories. And the belief stories are the hardest ones to change, because the only person who fully understands your belief story is you. And so if you want to start changing what you believe about, for example, the value, the monetary value of your ideas, or your art, or your work, you have to dig into yourself. Because I can tell you 'til the end of time that your ideas matter, that your ideas are valuable, that your ideas are worth something. But until you are able to believe it, until you're able to shift your belief, my story rings as unbelievable.

Pete: Yeah, unbelievable and unattainable. And what I find interesting (just to continue this game of inspirational ping-pong, as you coined it), it reminds me of one of my favorite books of all time, "The Art of Possibility" by Benjamin and Rosamund Zander. Just...

Jen: Mmm, it's so good.

Pete: So good. I've spoken about Rule Number 6, which comes from that book. I've spoken about so many things that come from that book. And another one is this idea that it's all invented. That tolerance, and belief, and the stories around that are all invented. All of this is invented. But what feels like it's, perhaps, not invented? Maybe capacity is not invented. Maybe capacity is near infinite, especially in the emotional labor sense. But that what stops us is the invention part, the tolerance part, the belief part.

Jen: So it seems to me that this is one of those moments of the art and the science, see if there is science behind capacity. I think about my friend Rich Diviney, who is a fellow optimist on Simon Sinek's team. Who is this extraordinary man who is looking to tap the limits of human potential. And he uses himself as the guinea pig, and puts his body through these unbelievably (for anyone else) intolerable situations, in order to find out what the human body's capacity for certain things might be.

Pete: Hmm.

Jen: And he willingly put himself into those kinds of situations. And though I have no intention of, for example, submerging myself in ice for hours on end to find out, like, how low my body temperature can go...I do see the equivalent in like, how far can I push myself beyond what I think my limits are? When do I know when I have actually reached capacity? I mean, it's that thing that, you know, when you go to work out. It's like, after your muscles start hurting is when the good stuff happens. You've got to get to what you feel is intolerable in order to reach capacity.

Pete: Hmm. Okay. Building on this. What is so fascinating to me is there is a, I guess you would call him a strength trainer that I follow based out of New York, I think, and he talks about this concept of load exceeding capacity. And that when load exceeds capacity, that is when an injury occurs. And load can take...

Jen: Ooh.

Pete: Yeah. Load can take many different forms. It could be you put too much weight on the barbell. Or it could be you put too much load through your hip joint. Or it could be you put too much load through your hamstrings, or whatever. But I just realized that...I was wondering as you were talking, what, what happens if you exceed capacity? What happens? Is that even possible? And then I realized that this guy, Dr. Sean Pastuch is his name. And he talks about this idea that when load exceeds capacity, really really bad things happen, like injuries.

Jen: Ooh. I'm having such a strong reaction to this. Because in the theatre industry right now, there's a really fascinating conversation going on around emotional load, and mental load, and whether or not we are being realistic about the capacity of actors to not sustain essentially mental, emotional injuries from the work that they're doing. And are we doing enough work on our end for prevention of those kinds of injuries? We're very willing to protect dancers from physical injuries. But are we willing to protect them from emotional injuries? Because their work is very emotional as well. So that's, that's just fascinating to me, the idea of capacity and load.

Pete: Yeah. And what happens if you exceed capacity? I think yeah...that's...hmm.

Jen: So are we saying that somewhere between what we've now labeled tolerance/belief, and capacity...somewhere between there is the actual load that you are, are able to bear?

Pete: I think so, yeah. I think what we're saying is there's a sweet spot somewhere between tolerance/belief, and capacity. And that you don't want to, you definitely don't want to exceed capacity. And in actual fact, you probably don't even want to...I would almost push back on this idea you want to equal capacity. Because to me, if I think about that, that always spells burnout. If you continue to maintain capacity, you're probably going to burn out. And you and I have spoken about white space in an episode before, and the power of creating space in one's life. So, I actually think that we probably want to dance just below capacity.

Jen: Hmm.

Pete: But that also recognizing, often we set our tolerance/belief far too low. I think that's definitely something to call out.

Jen: So I'm wondering, are we willing to take ourselves on, in this moment? Is there...I immediately am thinking of something for me. So I'm curious to know, is there something for you where what you have been willing to tolerate is, like, way far away from what your capacity is? And what is that thing?

Pete: That's an amazing question. What about if you share yours? And I'll think about, I'll think about mine.

Jen: Actually, two come to mind: one personal, one business. So, the personal one is how hard I am willing to push my body during these workouts that I've been doing, the running and the other workouts. It's like, I, I'm not taking on much more than I can tolerate. It's like, "Okay, I broke a sweat. I can tolerate that...".

Pete: I'm happy with that.

Jen: But I'm not ever, like, working out to the point of fatigue.

Pete: Hmm.

Jen: And I know I can do more in that area. And then the other one...I have been increasing my capacity, and increasing my tolerance, but not as much as I think I could. Which is my willingness to speak more publicly about some of the things that I very specifically feel need to change in the industry that I'm working in. And I've, I've increased my risk tolerance around that, and as a result have increased my risk capacity. But I think there's a lot more I could be doing there. So I'm challenging myself, in this moment, to do that more.

Pete: Hmm. I love it. I think for me...I'm trying to think of a better way of framing this, but I'll just go with this for now. It's...I keep coming back to, and I have kept coming back to (especially over the last six months), this idea of proactive work versus reactive work. And my capacity...I think one's capacity for proactive work is, you know, near infinite, in terms of a percentage of your work that can be proactive, versus reactive. And I would say at the moment, I can get caught up when I'm, "quote, busy, unquote", you know. And I have great work on, and I'm working with really cool clients, and I'm, you know, working with, with Seth Godin and the altMBA, and all of the great things I get to do- I can, I can let myself react to that. And that I would challenge myself, in looking at a little graph that I've drawn here in front of me with tolerance being low and capacity being very high, I would challenge myself to increase my tolerance/belief in the amounts of proactive work I can do. And that part of that, for me, is letting go of the idea that I need to always be reacting. That if someone reaches out, sends me a message, wants to catch up, I don't have to respond straightaway. I don't have to say yes. I don't have to move heaven and earth to cater for a conversation with someone. Now, I don't want that to come across the wrong way. I definitely want to catch up with people, and I love working with my clients. But I'm challenging myself to, I guess, just up the tolerance of the scary ambiguity of proactive work, where no one's telling you what to do. But you're creating space for yourself to do it, if that makes sense.

Jen: I love that. Well, I will hold you to your challenge, if you will hold me to mine.

Pete: Most definitely. Most definitely. You got that.

Jen: Alright, so what have we come to today? That we all have, perhaps, an infinite capacity for doing the kind of meaningful, hard, emotionally laborious work that we seek to do. And it is up to us to raise our tolerance level, so that we can get closer to meeting our capacity.

Pete: And, being mindful of load exceeding capacity. Because that's where injuries happen. That's where burnout happens. That's where mental health issues happen. Is when our load, I think, when our load exceeds our capacity.

Jen: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.