The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 50 - Important/Urgent

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, listeners. Before we get to this week's episode, Pete and I wanted to give a special shout out. Now, we get quite a lot of awesome correspondence from our listeners. But there was one in particular this week that just lit us up with joy. And this comes from one of our listeners named Pam, who is currently teaching English in Chile. And she wrote to let us know that she's been using "The Long and The Short Of It" to help her students learn English. One- because I guess Pete and I speak slowly. And two- because we have two different accents, they're able to hear the words in different ways. And this brought us so much joy, so we wanted to say hello to Pam, and to her students! We are so grateful that you are listening to our podcast. Keep up the good work.

Pete: Thank you, Pam, you're the best. And also, while we're here, we thought it was worth reminding you that our Box O' Goodies exists, and gets sent out every Tuesday. You can hop on to our website thelongandtheshortpodcast.com and enter your email if you want to get a weekly Box O' Goodies. And just like Pam, if you're enjoying the podcast, please take a screenshot, find someone that you think it's worth sharing with, and send it to them. That would mean the world to us.

Pete: Hey, hey, hey, Jen.

Jen: Hey, hey, hey, Pete.

Pete: Just mixing up the intros, as we like to. So, I heard a quote recently...well, I was reminded of a quote recently by one of my favorite podcasters on the planet: Debbie Millman. And the quote is, "Busy is a choice.". And I think this is worth unpacking.

Jen: Ooh, yes. "Busy is a choice." That immediately reminds me of urgent versus important. Let's talk about it. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Pete: Okay, could you maybe start by explaining to me...when you mentioned to me in passing, "I think there's something in this important versus urgent.". What exactly did you mean?

Jen: Well, I really live my life on the important versus urgent matrix.

Pete: Mmm, tell me more.

Jen: Which, as a Questioner, I don't see any point in doing anything that's not important! You're just not gonna find me doing it. What has been wonderful...because I am so focused on what's important, but I'm also very aware of the urgent, what's wonderful about the important/urgent matrix...which essentially, it's two axes. Axis-ees? What...

Pete: Axe-I? [laughter]

Jen: What, what is the plural of axis? Axe-I? One, that has urgent to not urgent; the other which is important to not important. And with those ideas, you create four quadrants: the important and urgent quadrant, the important but not urgent quadrant, the not urgent/not important quadrant, and the urgent/not important quadrant. What that matrix has been very useful for, for me, is to deal with the not urgent side. Because I'm never going to be found doing the not urgent/not important. I have no interest in it. Let it go. But I will sometimes, also, not be found doing the important/not urgent. Things like spending time with my family. Just taking some mental health time. Reaching back out to that friend that's been on my mind, but we have no plans to see each other ever again, but they've just been on my mind.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: Things like keeping up my...I mean, now I'm in the habit of keeping up my fitness. But I've had to sort of turn it into the urgent in order to make it happen. If it was just living in the important/not urgent, I wouldn't be doing it. So, I know I have to keep my eye on important/not urgent.

Pete: Hmm, okay, I love this. So, as I indicated at the start, I think this ties in so perfectly with Debbie Millman's quote, that busy is a decision. Because I think, I think you can extend busy is a decision to like, everything is a decision. Everything is a choice, everything is a decision. And so, based on that, what I'm curious, just for you, is how you use this matrix. Is this like a, you grab your to-do list and you plot it on this quadrant? Or do you kind of just now have it down pat? Where you're like, "I know what that is. I know where that is on the quadrant.".

Jen: Right now, it is so deeply ingrained in me it is second nature. I've really been...I don't know if preaching is the right word, but I've been preaching the matrix for over ten years.

Pete: Yeah? Wow.

Jen: So I mean, I really, I really live my life by this. But a big a-ha moment I had, was that some of the things...when I think about busyness. Busyness is urgent/not important. And waste of time is not urgent/not important. However, there have been some things that I have completely eliminated from my life because they were not urgent and not important. But I realized that if I brought them back in, but place them in a different quadrant, they would bring value to my life. For example, you know, I don't watch television. Except when Mark, my husband, and I decide we want to watch something together. And then, that becomes part of the important quadrant. Because spending time with my husband is important.

Pete: Mmm. And again, what you describe in all of that is that these are choices, and that things can change. And that...what I find interesting is that urgent is fluid, just as important is fluid. And it's specific, and relative to each individual. So what's urgent and important to you is different to what's urgent and important to me, which is different to what urgent and important is for anyone else. So, that sparks a thousand different directions that I want to go, naturally. Like empathy, and how we can think about other people's quadrants in the work that we do.

Jen: Ooh.

Pete: So, if I want to get Jen's attention and do another collaboration with her on something, is it worth me pausing to think: I wonder if this is urgent/important for Jen? And if I think it could be, how do I frame it in a way that she sees that? Like, actually using this as a bridge to empathy, and a bridge to connection, was the first thing of a thousand that came to mind.

Jen: You did this with me last week.

Pete: [laughter] I did too, I did too. [laughter]

Jen: Okay, tell the listeners what you did. (And it was very successful.)

Pete: Oh, this is funny. I sent Jen...so, I've mentioned, I think, in a previous episode...I am doing a, a TEDx talk in a couple of weeks on Imposter Syndrome. And Jen, being the wonderful human that she is, has offered to give me some feedback on that. And I recorded myself doing a version of the TED talk. I sent it to Jen. And I said, "Here it is. Let me know what you think.". And I waited. And I waited. And I was like, "Jen's not usually this slow in getting back to me.". And I had this a-ha moment, probably forty-eight hours later, where I realized what I'd done is I'd framed it in a way that would appeal to an Upholder. Which, I know we've spoken about Gretchen Rubin's framework before, but I basically framed it in a way where it's not urgent and not important for you, Jen. And I realized that mistake. And so I sent you another message and said, "Jen, I realize what I just did. I framed it in a way that would be relevant to me, but not to you, so try this. I want to deliver a world-class TEDx talk. And what that will enable us to do is to expand The Long and The Short Of It community, I think. Based on that, I would love your feedback on how I can make this world-class, so that we can move our work forward.". And I think within about an hour, you might have responded. So, that was a real example of me trying to move it around in your quadrants. So that's fascinating.

Jen: And it really, really worked. And I just want to say something about this, because when we talk about empathy and speaking in a way that other people need, in order to understand what you're saying...I've heard people use the word "manipulate".

Pete: Oh no, no, no, no.

Jen: And I want to just call that out as- I did not feel manipulated. I felt seen. I felt understood. I was very eager. I didn't feel obligated. I was excited, then, to dig in because, to your point, what you did was push this into my important quadrant, which is where I want to live all the time. In what's important. I don't want to do busy work. I don't want to get caught up in not urgent/not important. And this wasn't necessarily urgent (at least from a Questioner's perspective), because it's weeks away. But it was important, and that's where I want to live. Thank you for reframing it.

Pete: Of course. And so building on that, the empathy for that, for me, is- what is important to Jen? And how do I help her see this is important? Not to manipulate, but because I think, I genuinely believe that this is important for both of us, and can help us move some of our work forward. How do I help Jen see that? Rather than just going, "Jen's on the same page as me. Here it is. Just figure it out.". It's actually, like, the empathy to say, "I know what's important to Jen. I know what's important to the person on the other side of this. And so I'm going to frame it in a way that appeals to them, that resonates with them. Not to manipulate them, but because I genuinely believe in the change that I seek to make in this interaction.".

Jen: Okay, I want to bring this back to busyness because I see...

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: ...a connection point here, which is- just as busyness is a choice, busyness is also a great hiding spot.

Pete: Interesting. Okay, this is juicy. So, busy. I feel like "busy" has become a default response for so many people. And, honestly, almost a badge of honor, in some circles. Where, if someone says, "How are you going," and you go, "Ahhh, I'm just flat out," or, "I'm just so busy," that it's almost that we say that as if to justify our work, or, say it in a way that we're proud to be in this state of busyness. I've heard Arianna Huffington talk about this a lot. That being busy, being constantly manic, and being in a state of- "I've always got something on, I'm just so busy, I'm just so busy.". That that's like, it's so unhealthy and unhelpful for anyone (including yourself), but also the people around you. So I love this idea that, that busy is a choice. And that we can choose not to be busy. And that we can choose not to wear it as a badge of honor. And we can choose not to hide in it. So, I would love to challenge everyone to use that word a lot less. And not just use the word a lot less, but actually create less busyness in your life.

Jen: Okay, so earlier today, before we started recording, you and I were talking about your calendar. And I made, like, some joke about, you know, "Gotta put in your forty hours a week.". And you said something like, "Well, I'm putting in far more than forty hours a week.". And I said, "Really?". And you said, "Yes, and I love it.". I mean, that is...that is my wish for everyone listening- is that we can all find a way to emulate that. That we love the work we do, and we feel fed by it, instead of depleted by it.

Pete: Yeah. And so building on that, what I would say is, I was almost taken aback by your question because I don't, I don't actually work towards a set number of hours per week. Nor do I even think about how many hours I work per week because a) I enjoy it so much, b) it's fulfilling to me, and c) I think it's meaningful. But also d)...what I would say is, if the word is "work"- I consider sitting for an hour and reading a book, work. I consider going for a two-hour walk with a friend of mine, work. Not because it's laborious, and like we traditionally view work. But because all of that feeds everything that I do. That- having space to whiteboard, having space to listen to a podcast, having space to connect with a friend. That's all part of it for me. There's no, like, work versus life. This is just one big existence, to be honest.

Jen: Well, I feel like part of that freedom comes from the fact that you are your own boss.

Pete: Totally.

Jen: I am my own boss. I'm so interested in looking at how our listeners who have nine to five jobs, for example, can give themselves that. Maybe not that same structure of freedom, but find more freedom in their calendar for less busy work, and more work work. Like deep work. Like work you love.

Pete: I have, okay, I have some ideas on this. Because I used to work nine to five. I used to be in corporates, I used to be in startups. I was the employee, working for an employer. And so, I get it. It can be hard, and I get it. We have managers, and I get it. There are people you have to report to, and work you have to do. I also assert that the work you do between nine to five does not take you eight hours. That if you looked at your day, an average day for you in the last six months, I guarantee you could get what you got done in maybe three hours. And that that's a good thing. Because what it can mean is you can...in the right environment, and you've got the right boss, and you've got the right work structure, I guess, is you can get your work done, and have space, and read a book in your lunch break, and not scroll social media at four o'clock in the afternoon while you're having a coffee. Actually do something productive. Actually listen to a podcast, and go for a quick walk in the afternoon. As opposed to mindlessly scrolling Instagram, and then all of a sudden quickly, sending that email right at the last minute. Because that's, that's what I used to do. I was there, I was that guy. That was me.

Jen: If we lay the ideas you just shared on to the urgent versus important matrix, it seems like what you're saying is that there are times in an eight-hour work day where you are choosing from the not urgent category. And so then your choice becomes, am I doing not urgent/not important, like scrolling Instagram? Or am I doing not urgent/important, things that mean something to you?

Pete: Yeah, because unfortunately, what the nine to five does is it creates this container that you have to be doing something for eight hours. All this expectation that you have to be doing something for eight hours. So, if you finish all of the urgent and important things, you start pulling from different quadrants. And you start reaching into the other quadrants, and being like, "Eh, I guess I'll do something not urgent and not important, because I've got to work. I've got to do something.".

Jen: Yeah, I, I really want to challenge everyone, regardless of your work environment- when you have the choice to not exist in urgent, to see if you can make the important choice instead of the not important choice.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: And just as an experiment- if you've never lived that way, experiment and see if you experience a result that's worth moving forward.

Pete: Exactly. And experiment, I think, with the idea of busy and the notion of busy. What if you weren't busy? Experiment with that. Let us know what that feels like. And maybe that is The Long and The Short Of It.