The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 52 - Integrity Tests

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, listeners! If you detect joy in my voice, it's because Pete Shepherd is coming to New York City.

Pete: "Rahhhh!" I can hear the crowd screaming, Jen. "Rahhh!" It's true. It's true. I'm coming back to New York City. And, in celebration of that, and in celebration of our one-year milestone of The Long and The Short Of It, we're going to be doing another Live Podcast. It'll be happening on the 7th of October, at 7pm Eastern. And if you want to sign up, come along, and join the frivolity, you can go to thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/live.

Jen: Thank you so much for making this year possible, listeners. We literally couldn't, and wouldn't do it without you. If you have found value in this podcast, and there are people in your life who you think might also find value in it, we would so appreciate it if you would take a screenshot of your phone right now, and text the image of today's episode to a friend, and encourage them to listen.

Pete: And finally, if you haven't already, please head to our website, thelongandtheshortpodcast.com and sign up for our Box O' Goodies, which is a weekly email containing links to resources, questions, books, podcasts, and ideas all in relation to the week's episode. Thanks for listening.

Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: Hello, Jen Waldman.

Jen: So, I've had a couple interesting experiences this week that have led me to believe I'm being tested. And I thought maybe we could talk about how one might pass an Integrity Test.

Pete: Ah-ha. Integrity, being one of your core values. Let's do it. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Pete: Okay, Jen Waldman, I think of you as "Queen Integrity". So please, talk to me about your tests.

Jen: Okay. I'll give you the short of it, instead of the long of it. I feel like three tests were put in front of me this week. And there was some sort of, like, possible prize on the other side of the test, if I chose to step away from my integrity. So, the first was that on the other side was convenience. So, there was a test put in front of me with a client that I was developing a keynote/workshop for. And I had the choice to either do the really hard thing, or to go the convenient route. And so, I had to ask myself some integrity questions to make a decision there. The second piece was a business proposition that was put in front of me where the prize was money. But the offer was not at all in alignment with anything I would typically say or do. So, that was put in front of me. And then the other was simply a personal issue with a friend- and what is right and just, and whether or not my opinion is popular. All of these things happened in a short period of time, and I was like, "What is happening here?".

Pete: These are juicy. So, I've heard you say this before...I can't remember if it was on the podcast. So maybe, for the folks at home who may not have heard you describe, how do you think about, or define integrity?

Jen: Very good question. I believe everyone has integrity. The question is- are you in your integrity, or out of your integrity, moment to moment? We're never going to be perfect. We're never going to always be one hundred percent in integrity with ourselves. But for me, I am in integrity with myself when- what I believe, what I say, and what I do are in alignment. Sometimes people take issue with the word "believe". So, you could think about this as when- what I value, what I do, and what I say are in alignment. Or where- what I know to be true, and what I say, and what I do are in alignment. It's that internal compass, that intuition, and the things that you care about show up in your actions.

Pete: And, just to call out, having heard you describe it, and describe the tests that were presented to you...that being in integrity isn't necessarily easy.

Jen: No, Peter, it's not. It is something that you have to work for, and commit to. So, the thing that was really easy for me to pass the test on was the money test. That one was very easy. Because, essentially, someone made an offer for something they thought they could bring into my Studio. And the thing was completely out of alignment with everything I stand for. So, it was pretty easy for me to say, "No, I'm not interested in that.". But it got me really thinking about how tempting financial reward can be. And if I had been in a different position in my life, where I was like, "I really need that money", would I have sacrificed my integrity in that moment? Just because someone was presenting a profitable opportunity to me. So, I recognize that my given circumstances contributed to my ability to say no. And I'm curious about myself. Like, I've definitely been tossing it around since then. Like, if I was in a different position, would I have said yes?

Pete: So, what I find interesting about hearing you say that is, I would actually imagine...I would assert that for most people, that's the hardest one. And so, you said that was the easiest one for you. The money. I actually think that so many of us fall out of integrity with ourselves when we chase money, when we chase status, or a promotion, or a project that's going to pay us really, really, really, really well. Because, such is the society we live in. Where everything is focused on more, more, more, and money, money, money, and buy stuff, stuff, stuff. That, I actually think that one would be the hardest one to, to step away from. To step back into your integrity, and move away from the shiny money that's been on offer.

Jen: Well, you know what's funny, I have this sort of...is it a catchphrase that I use? Which is, it's basically, like, the essential question I ask myself is- "Can I put my head on the pillow at night, saying, 'I'm proud of that?'". So I imagined this scenario, and then having to face my students, and saying, "Yes, we brought this into our space.". And immediately it was like, uh, no I could...there's no way I could put my head on the pillow at night and go, "Oh, I'm really proud of that decision.". So, that's what made it so easy to say no to the money. The convenience one, on the other hand, I had to actually ask for some accountability. You might recall, I asked for it from you. I sent you a voice memo, stating my intention to do something, really, that was much harder than the convenient choice. And I said to you, "This is the intention: I am choosing inconvenience. I am choosing discomfort. I am choosing risk. And then I'll report back how it went.". So, the way I was able to actually stay in my integrity in that moment, and deliver the best possible content for the client was to find myself some accountability. It was not easy.

Pete: I think, for whatever reason, sometimes we do create these stories that we need to go alone, or go it alone. And that so many of us...I know so many high-performing people that struggle to ask for help, or ask for accountability. Like, that's almost their biggest fear. So it doesn't surprise me that you found that one difficult. Because I, I mean, I myself from time to time, find it really hard to ask others for help. There's this pressure we put on ourselves that we need to do it ourself, and figure it out ourself, and that asking for help is weak, and, you know, all of those nasty stories that come with that.

Jen: Well, the reason it was hard, is...it's sort of hard to describe. But, when I was thinking of what it would mean to choose the harder option, I couldn't, in that moment, see what was in it for me. I could absolutely see what was in it for the client. But I was, I was like, "Why am I doing this to myself? Why would I put myself in this position? To take such a big risk, and step into this discomfort. On the other end of it, what am I getting out of it?". And at that time, I genuinely could not see what was in it for me. But, because whenever I go and I work with a client, the commitment I make is to show up in service, I have to choose the thing that is of service to the client. But the added bonus, cherry-on-the-top at the end of that experience was, and you might recall from the next voice memo I sent you, was, "Oh. Well, I ran with this idea. I had no idea how it was going to go. It was completely risky. And I think I landed on something that is so much better than the thing I had intended to do in the first place. That this has the potential to turn into something I use over and over again with other clients.". And I never would have landed on it, if I hadn't given myself permission to take this risk.

Pete: So I wonder if, built into the experiment (and we've done an Episode on experiments before), that built into that is- there's always something in it for you. So, while you weren't clear in what was in it for you, by running an experiment and, you know, risk-stacking in a way (which is another Episode we did), you created a situation where there was always going to be something in it for you. Whether it was the learning that- "Well, I'll never do that again!". Or- "Actually, there's something in that!". That I think, that is what was in it for you. And, I would say, what was in it for you was being in integrity with yourself. That that is why you did it. That was what was in it for you, I think, just to reflect that back.

Jen: Oooh, yes. Thank you for that. The third scenario is where I feel the most proud of my outcome, but it was, really, the hardest. And that is making values and morals-based decisions that are perhaps not popular, or don't trend. And in this particular situation, you know, I had a friend who was dealing with a really tricky personal circumstance. And I had to decide how I was going to support this friend. And ultimately, the thing that I had to ask myself was, "What are my values? And what do my values look like in action?". So, that was the first thing- I definitely had a hard conversation with myself. And when I say hard, I mean, I was hard on myself, but it was also, just, a hard conversation. Around- "What do I even value? And if I put my values into action, what does that look like?". Going back to the "How" layer of the Golden Circle, like, this is where the rubber meets the road. The tests that come your way really make you fight for what you believe in. And then, the other thing that was ultimately the thing that made it easier...not easy, but easier to move through the tension was- I've been toying with these vision exercises recently, where I try to find a way to articulate, "What does the future look like in my vision for the world?". And one of the ways I do that is I, I look around at what makes me angry, what pisses me off, what is not okay with me, and then I imagine, "What would the world look like if that was different, or better?". And so, I was thinking about this in relationship to this friend, going, "What is it about the world that is really bothering me right now?". And then, "What would it look like if it was better?". And, imagining the better world was really, for me, the key to saying, "Ah, if that is the world I envision, then I really only have one choice in this matter, if I'm going to show up in integrity with myself.". That really helped. It's still hard. But, it helped me to say, "I'm going to support my friend, in this way. And at the end of the day, I can absolutely put my head on the pillow at night and say, 'I am proud of how I showed up in this situation.'".

Pete: So, "What does better look like?". I love that as a question.

Jen: We'll do a whole episode on the "What Pisses You Off" framework, in the future! [laughter]

Pete: I also think...what's interesting about hearing you talk about all three of these examples, and this idea of stepping into our integrity, is that we have a choice to do so. And you used the word "choice" quite a few times. But, I think this is so under-appreciated, and under-valued. So, I'm just going to say it out loud (as I think we have in a few episodes), that everything is a choice. And in any given moment, we can choose whether to take the easy road, or the hard road. And there is a phenomenal quote by...I've completely forgotten his name. All I know is that he's a Polish powerlifter. And the quote goes a little something like this: "Easy choices, hard life. Hard choices, easy life.". And I think there is so much wisdom in that. Because everything you just described was a hard choice. And I think that the "easy life" part comes in the fact that you can now rest your head on the pillow, knowing that you acted in integrity with yourself.

Jen: Of course, I had to Google it. His name is Jerzy...

Pete: It's him!

Jen: ...Jerzy Gregorek.

Pete: Jerzy! Shout out, Jerzy, if you're listening. [laughter] And so Jen, what does the post-test feeling look like? Do you have what Brene Brown calls a "Vulnerability Hangover"? Do you feel calm? Do you feel happy? Do you feel sad? How do you feel post-test?

Jen: I feel like I have strengthened my own personal sense of leadership. When the business thing was going down, one of my colleagues at the studio happened to be there, and was sort of watching. And I thought, after that, I was like, "I'm glad he saw that. Because I think I really stood up for what we, as a community, believe in.". So that felt good, in that sense. In terms of the personal situation...when it comes to leadership and personal life, to me, that's, you know, all about being a parent. And I thought to myself, "I look forward to the day when I can tell my daughter this story. And the thought-process, and how it was all handled." Because I would want her to...not necessarily even come to the same conclusion, because she has her own values. But, give herself the space to ask the hard questions; to really dig deep into what she believes in. So, that to me felt like- "Okay, as a parent, I'm definitely stepping up as a leader there.". And, in my work with my client, I definitely helped bring them to a better place than where we started. Which, you know, helping people step into a better future, that's also an element of leadership. So, I think the integrity piece strengthened my own belief in leadership. Which, you know, choosing leadership is very challenging. You're constantly sticking your neck out into places where it's vulnerable to be. So, I don't feel vulnerability hangover. I feel more, like, a sense of groundedness. And I like it!

Pete: I do, too. I do, too. So, I think what I'm picking up, to summarize, is that when we are confronted with tests, we have the choice to step into our integrity...which will unlikely be easy...and ask ourselves the hard questions. Because the quality of your life is determined by the quality of your questions, I believe. And, off the back of that, we can choose to lead ourselves, and others, through said difficult tests.

Jen: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.