The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 60 - Out Of Your Head

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, Pete.

Pete: Hello, Jen.

Jen: As I'm preparing to share an idea for this episode, I'm realizing that, like, every tenth episode, or so, starts the same...and it sounds something like this: "Hey, Pete. You know what I hate when people say to me...?".

Pete: [laughter] The old rant episode...

Jen: Yeah. So, I hate it when someone tells me...or I hear someone tell someone else, "Just get out of your head.".

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: So, I would like to get us into our heads, so that we can talk about getting out of your head.

Pete: Let's get this out of your head. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Pete: Okay, Jen, what's up there? What do you got? Get it out.

Jen: The reason it makes me so angry is that it completely denies the way human beings process information, come to conclusions, make decisions about the actions they are going to take. To encourage someone to get out of their head, without first asking them what's in their head, feels real misguided to me.

Pete: Mmmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. I agree. And I wonder, in what contexts...perhaps it's worth unpacking...in what contexts might someone say, "Get out of your head."?

Jen: Oh, Peter, I have heard this in many contexts. I hear this all the time in acting contexts: "I just have to get out of my head.". I hear this all the time when someone is dealing with a difficult situation and a friend says, "Oh, just get out of your head about it.". In classroom settings. In difficult conversations. In easy conversations. "Get out of your head," feels like a deflection. "Let us deflect, defer, hide from what is actually happening." So, I want to instead offer that- telling someone to get out of their head without providing them a specific route out, is not helpful. But even more than that, maybe an alternative would be to get into their head with them. So, I want to just offer something up. There, there is a framework called The Four Stages of Learning.

Pete: Okay.

Jen: Which...it's hard to say what the origin is of this framework. It had been wrongly attributed to Abraham Maslow. And then, it was attributed to some consulting firm from the early 70's. But then, someone else found a record of it as, in the late 60's. So, who knows who came up with it? But it's really useful. And essentially, the idea is that when we're learning something new, we go through four stages. The first, (this might be familiar to you), is called unconscious incompetence. You don't know what you don't know. Then, you start to know something. And you move into the second stage, which is conscious incompetence. You are now aware of what you don't know. Conscious meaning- in your head, aware.

Pete: She's fired up, everybody.

Jen: And then, you practice. If this is a skill you actually want to learn, or knowledge you want to deeply embed within yourself, you practice. And then, you move to conscious competence. "Oh, I know what I know. I still have to think about it. I'm still in my head about it. But I'm getting better. I see the progress. I'm developing a reliable skill.". Until ultimately, you move into mastery. Or, unconscious competence. And the example I always like to use here, to describe it is- if anyone has ever learned how to dance, in the balletic way...you learn that in order to leap, you must first plie. And then, you leap off of the standing foot. Then, you stretch both legs in the air. Then, you land on the opposite foot, rolling through the foot, starting toe, ball, heel.

Pete: Oh my god.

Jen: And then, you plie on the other foot. That is what a leap is. And when you're first learning, you didn't know what that was. You didn't even know what a leap was. You thought it was a jump. It's not. It's a leap. You were unconsciously incompetent. And then, you're taught the steps, and you try to do it, and you stink at it. And you are consciously incompetent. But you want to get better. So, you keep thinking about all the steps. You are actively getting better at leaping. You're like, "Wow, I'm getting better at this.". Consciously competent. And then one day, somebody says to you "Leap.". And you just start flying through the air. You're not thinking about your plie. You're not thinking toe, ball, heel. It's just so ingrained in you, that you now know how to leap without thinking about it. But in order to do that, you had to get into your head. Consciousness.

Pete: So, what do you think...I love that example, by the way. What do you think that people are trying to, like...what's the question, behind the question? (Even though it's not a question.) What's the question behind, "Get out of your head."? What are people trying to say, to people? Because...I have some assertions. I feel like, in some contexts, they're essentially saying, "Get over it.". Which is...

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: ...not helpful at all. Which is, like- "You're, you're struggling with something? Get over it, and move on.". Which is, like, the opposite of helpful. You could add one word to this sentence, and I actually think it would be useful.

Jen: What's that?

Pete: Well, the word is- "it". And I would say, "Get it out of your head.". Because this, to me, is, like...this is brainstorming, and whiteboarding, and thrashing. And I know we speak about that a lot. But to me, it's like, I'm so wound up in my own head. So, someone telling me, "Just get out of that," is not at all helpful. It's more like- sort it. Put it somewhere. Like, process it. And to me that's- get it out of your own head. Or, get it out of your head.

Jen: Oh my god, I love that so much.

Pete: So, I would just grab a notepad and go, "Oh, good point. I'll write this down.". Or, "Let me find a whiteboard and get this out.". Or, "Let me, just, talk it out loud." I think a more useful prompt is- can I get it out of my head? Or...if you're saying to someone else, "Just get it out of your head.".

Jen: I am obsessed with that, and will be stealing it. Thank you so much.

Pete: I think this goes to the episode we spoke about being unstuck, or being stuck. And how stuck is a choice. And that we can choose to be unstuck by taking very small actions to move things forward. And that what is probably happening, in the moment before someone....or, someone says to someone else, or someone says to themself, "I need to get out of my head.". Is, they're probably, like, in this state of stuck. And so, what I love about what you just described is it's like, (as we talked about in that stuck episode), is, "I have an opportunity to do something different.". As opposed to, "I am stuck.". And so it's like, what if you re-framed it? What if you asked yourself a question? What if you got it out loud and said it? What if you wrote it down? Like, all of those things are actions. And all of them are really easy, and digestible, and not, like, huge, and grandiose, and esoteric. Like, [snap], "Got to get out of my head.". It's just like, what?

Jen: Yes. It's, the...what's missing from that is the how. Like, I get the why. Because it's better to feel unstuck, than stuck. And I get the what. Is that, it looks like moving forward. But how? How are you going to do that? I see people drive themselves into a state of shame over the fact that they're in their head. Or, the other way they put it is- "I just need to get out of my own way.".

Pete: Yeah. So, this idea of getting out of our own way is something that I hear a lot. And I think it's very closely related, and is as unhelpful. Which is- "Jen, you just got to get out of your own way.". It's like, "True. Cool, cool, cool. But, like, Can you help me? How do I do that?".

Jen: If you ever say that to me, I will throw this computer across the room. [laughter]

Pete: Noted. Noted, noted. [laughter]

Jen: How very dare you.

Pete: So, it sounds like what we're saying is- we might find ourselves...in fact, we will find ourselves, at some point in time, in a state of overthinking, in a state of overanalyzing. And so, I wonder if, like...empathetically, if I was to think about these people who are trying to be helpful, I think. They're trying to help someone move forward. They're just not necessarily doing it with a very how-based, actionable framework. So it's like, their intentions are great. So like, I see you out there, if you ever ask this question of yourself, and other people. Your intentions are great. You're trying to help someone get unstuck. You're trying to help someone sort through something in their head. But there are more practical, actionable, tactical ways to do so. I think is what you're saying, Jen. Is that right?

Jen: Totally. And I think it's become such a catchphrase, that people default to it when they don't know what else to say.

Pete: Hmm. I think it's also, to a point that you and I mentioned on a podcast recently, which- one of our mutual clients is, is doing some work around this idea of being comfortable saying, "I don't know.". And the power of those three words. And I feel like this could stem from...this idea of, "You just got to get out of your head,", could stem from overwhelm from a person on the other side of the room, or the table, or the...wherever you are. Who sees their friend spinning out. Who sees their friend overthinking something, overanalyzing something. And they're like, they feel obliged to offer something. They, they're too scared to say, "I don't know what to do. Maybe you should go and talk to someone else. Because I don't think I can help you.". And so, this, like, natural response just comes out of them, which is- "You just, you just need to get out of your head.". And they think they're being helpful, and productive. But actually, they're probably better served saying, maybe, "You know what, I don't know. You do seem kind of, a little stuck on this. Let's, like, go and find a resource that might be able to help you.".

Jen: Mmm. When I, I see myself in (because I'm a Questioner), in the overthinking, overanalyzing...I would say, to myself, that I want to take the "over" out of that. And just call it- I'm thinking and analyzing. Which is a superpower of mine.

Pete: Wow.

Jen: And it is a place that I can hide. So, I'm thinking, I'm analyzing, and now I'm deciding.

Pete: Wow. Wow, wow, wow. I love that. So, I love that idea of taking out the "over", and realizing that our superpower can also be the reason that's causing us to spiral. Which is okay. But that we have to be mindful of how much power we give the overwhelmed, the overthinking, the overanalyzing. Mmm.

Jen: And give ourselves permission to think, and analyze, when it is of service to the work that we're doing. And now, I'm realizing that the reason...I mean, "Hello. Paging Dr. Freud.". The reason I started this episode with, "You know what makes me so angry,", is because I feel called out by someone calling someone else out as being a person who gets in their head. Because, I believe in going into my head. Because that's where all my good stuff lies.

Pete: That's the place you want to be.

Jen: But then, I've got to, you know, eventually come back out, and express what I found in there. But, I gotta go there first.

Pete: Yeah. I think that's a really important point. Which is- giving ourselves permission to go in our head is actually...I mean, that's what a mindfulness practice is.

Jen: Yep.

Pete: Observing your thoughts, observing your feelings. That, actually, being in your head is a superpower. And being aware of, and mindful of, the thoughts, the feelings, the doubts, the insecurities that you have, is a superpower. So, in actual fact, we should be saying to people, "Get in your head.". As opposed to, "Get out of your head.".

Jen: Yes. Get in your head, so you can get it out of your head.

Pete: (Mic drop.)

Jen: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.