The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 66 - Aha Moments

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: Hey, Jen.

Jen: Yes, this is what I sound like today.

Pete: You okay?

Jen: I'm okay. I'm feeling okay, it's just a little frog has jumped into my throat. So enjoy, enjoy the dulcet tones of today's voice, my friends. So Peter, occasionally we reference the amazing Dr. Michael Gervais. And I've heard him say that he measures success by how many times the hair on his neck stands up in a day. Like, how many times he gets chills in a day. And I think I like to measure my successes by how many aha moments I have in a day, or how many aha moments I can help other people to have in a day. And I thought it might be fun, since we're nearing the end of 2019, to unpack our favorite aha moments of the year.

Pete: I like it. A little reflection on the year with our favorite aha moments. Let's do it. You, me, and the frog in your throat. [laughter] This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Jen: Ribbit, ribbit. [laughter]

Pete: Okay, frog. Do you want to kick off with your favorite...or is it favorite, or most impactful aha moment, maybe?

Jen: I mean, there's...yes, they're favorite, they're impactful. Also, some of them were like, upsetting in the moment. I just quickly jotted down a little list. I have, I have three real ones and a fourth sort of mini-aha to share. Maybe we could go back and forth, like a little aha ping pong.

Pete: Aha ping pong. That's what we're playing. Let's do it.

Jen: Alright. Aha moment number one. I have to tell a story in order for this to make any sense. Once upon a time, I was doing some work with the National YoungArts Foundation, an incredible organization. I can't remember if I've ever shared this on this podcast before, but even if I have, it's worth repeating. The amazing master artist Bill T. Jones was leading an interdisciplinary workshop with a bunch of young artists across about a dozen different artistic disciplines in the visual, performing, and literary arts. And what he did was he first asked everyone who identified as a creative artist to raise their hands. So everyone in the room raised their hands, and then he started inviting certain groups to put their hands down. "Dancers, put your hands down. Instrumentalists, put your hands down. Vocalists, put your hands down. Actors, put your hands down.", etc, etc. "If you are a writer, keep your hand up. A choreographer...", etc. So you could sort of feel the room be like, "Huh, what's going on here?". And then he said, "If you are an interpretive artist, raise your hand. Singers, you should have your hands up. Dancers, actors...". And you sort of felt this major aha moment dawning on everyone in the room, that in the world of artistry, there are people who make things out of nothing, and there are people who make things out of something. And that is the distinction between a creative artist (someone who is a creator, who makes something from nothing), and an interpretive artist (someone who interprets something that already exists). So with that in mind, my number one big aha moment of 2019 was the moment that I realized why I was having trouble with my writing...what was keeping me from moving my writing forward. I think I've mentioned on the podcast before that I'm working on a book. And I was feeling the wheels start to turn so slowly that it felt like it was going to stop. And then I realized that I had been saddling myself with the pressure of being a creative artist, and believing that my book was the equivalent of creating something from nothing. And when I gave myself permission to be an interpretive artist, and to use my book as a way to interpret what I see and what I'm experiencing, and just reframed it as this is one of the ways I use my art to interpret, I was able to get the wheels going again. And it was a big aha. One that I intend to have over and over again, anytime I feel myself slowing down.

Pete: Yes, I love that. I love that. I love that. Okay, my turn. My turn. So I was thinking that there was a, an aha moment here in relation to proactive and reactive. But what I've actually realized in this moment, in thinking about it was there's a, there's a an aha moment behind the aha moment, if you like. And the, the aha moment is the amazing and positive impact of walking and talking. And that sounds a little bit ridiculous, I know. But let me explain. So my good friend Josh Janssen...who has a podcast called The Daily Talk Show with his friend Tommy Jackett, shout out. He and I walk once a week. And we've started doing this this year. We spend two hours, often on a Monday between 6:30am and 8:30am, walking and talking. And there is no agenda. There is no rules on what happens. We just walk. And we inevitably end up talking about things like podcasting, about things like being a creative, about things like being a freelancer, or being a human, and being in Melbourne, and just everything and anything. And I was originally thinking of one aha moment that he helped me see, which was specifically around me hiding in being reactive, and not being proactive enough. And the very specific example of that was he was asking me about the start of the year, when I was planning on going back to New York. And I was sort of hiding in the fact that I hadn't figured it out yet because no one had asked me to be there on that particular date. And he was sort of like, "That's reactive. What if you just told them you were going to be there on a particular date?". So that was one aha moment that I was going to highlight. But what I realized is the walking itself has created at least a handful, if not more, of aha moments, for both he and I. And so for me, there's something in this idea of catching up with a friend, or a colleague, or an acquaintance and walking, being outside, grabbing a coffee, and just talking, and listening, and asking each other questions. That from those conversations, we have both had so many aha moments that I just think there's something magical in the time slot as well, the 6:30 to 8:30. The fact that there's no real external pressures, or phones flashing or, you know, even dinner. We're not having dinner, we're just walking and we're just talking. And so that, to me, has been a big aha moment. And I'd like to do more walking and talking with people in the future.

Jen: Love that. Love that so much. Alright...

Pete: Number two!

Jen: Here is aha moment number two.

Pete: Come on, frog.

Jen: Okay. This one's going to be shorter, but it packs a punch. I was recently listening to the wonderful podcast Getting to Yes, And, and the host was interviewing the authors Tehama Lopez Bunyasi and Candis Watts Smith, who co-wrote the book Stay Woke: A People's Guide to Making All Black Lives Matter. Their interview, in and of itself, is remarkable and their work is quite compelling. They, they mentioned something sort of in passing in their interview, and they quoted someone else's book, a woman named Dolly Chugh, who wrote a book called The Person You Mean To Be: How Good People Fight Bias. And I quickly jotted it down because I couldn't believe what they said, which I will share with you in a moment. And I bought Dolly Chugh's book and I could not put it down. It is extraordinary, and I highly recommend it. Anyway, what did they say, you might be wondering. What they said was, "We're getting it wrong when we say that what people want is to be seen. What people really want is to be seen the way they see themselves.".

Pete: Wow. Oh my goodness.

Jen: Yep. That was maybe my favorite aha moment of 2019 because I think it completely opened my eyes to a pretty big blind spot. People want to be seen the way they see themselves.

Pete: I mean, I feel like we could build on that and make it a whole episode, but I'm going to resist the urge and just let you drop the mic on that one.

Jen: Yeah, I mean, what else is there to say?

Pete: Exactly, exactly. So I'll just move into my number two, which was an aha moment that's kind of stayed the course of three hundred and sixty five days, almost the entire year, essentially. And so at the start of 2019, I read and finished Brene Brown's book, Dare to Lead. And two things are...

Jen: So good.

Pete: So good. And there were two concepts from that book that have just been on my mind for for the entire year, and have shown their head in so many different ways throughout the year, and have created a bunch of aha moments. Some of which have been great, some of which have been really hard. But they've been aha moments nonetheless. And so, I think they're related. The first is this idea that Brene Brown talks about, which is, "Clear is kind. And unclear is unkind.". And I mean that, I've just seen that manifest itself in so many ways over the year...of when I haven't been clear with someone, or someone hasn't been clear with me, and I've felt tension. And then when I have been clear with someone, even if it's hard, or when they've been clear with me, I've been like, "Okay, cool. At least we both know the information. At least we both know the story, and we both know where we stand.". And that's come about in many different forms, but I think clear is kind. But related to that is the particular aha moment I had. And I actually want to read one of the, the definition, essentially, was this word "rumble", that she talks about. And it became a word that I wrote on my whiteboard at the start of the year. And I've looked at that word literally every single day this year, and thought about it. And so the word is rumble. And Brene describes a rumble as- "a discussion, conversation, or meeting defined by a commitment to lean into vulnerability, to stay curious and generous, and to stick with the messy middle of problem identification and solving, to take a break and circle back when necessary, to be fearless in owning our parts, and, as psychologist Harriet Lerner teaches, to listen with the same passion with which we want to be heard.". So again, maybe there's not much more to say other than that quote, but the idea of creating conditions to rumble with people has been something I've tried to do a lot of this year. It has been excruciatingly painful at times. And it has been unbelievably productive and generous at other times. And I just love that. She frames it in a way where it's like, "Yep, this is going to be messy. Yep, this is going to be hard. But we're committed to leaning into that, to being curious, and to staying in the messy middle.". And so that has been a big aha moment for me over the last twelve months.

Jen: I love that idea of passionate listening.

Pete: Hmm. So good.

Jen: Amazing. Okay, here's my aha moment number three.

Pete: This is fun.

Jen: Which, it really feels like...it's surprising I didn't see this coming, honestly, because if you had asked me what my big aha moment was from the previous year, it was the comment you made to me about what happens if you lift the walls, which I'm sure we've talked about on a previous episode. So...

Pete: The first time we ever met.

Jen: ...here's part two of that aha moment. Yeah. Oh my goodness. That's why we're here today. So, Simon Sinek has a new book out, The Infinite Game, which we should unpack on a future episode.

Pete: Yes.

Jen: But this is about one particular point in the book. He identifies five practices, five mindsets one must adopt in order to truly be playing an infinite game, the first of which is to advance a just cause. And he establishes some criteria that a cause must meet in order to qualify as a just cause. So, here are the criteria. A just cause must be for something (so in the affirmative, not against something). It must be service-oriented, meaning the primary beneficiary must be someone other than yourself. It must be resilient (so able to endure change: political, cultural, technological, and otherwise). It must be idealistic (so ultimately, so big, so bold that it is unachievable, but it represents an ideal state). And fifth, and what this aha moment about, is inclusive. And his definition of inclusive is, "It is open to all those who wish to contribute.". And as I've been looking at the way I am advancing my own just cause within the four walls of my studio in New York, I realized that we were not being truly inclusive. And this aha moment actually was deeply uncomfortable, and sort of painful to recognize.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: Because the walls that we built around the studio are pretty high, because my intention is to create the safest of spaces for the people in it. But as a result, I realized that the content we're sharing isn't really leaking beyond the four walls. So how could other people who might wish to contribute to our just cause even know that it exists? So, I can't tell you in this moment what this is going to look like. But this is really, for me, a defining feature of the next year: is being able to say with absolute certainty that my just cause is inclusive, and open to all those who wish to contribute. So I think what it means, Peter, is once again lifting the walls.

Pete: Yes. Wow. I love that. It actually...it feeds and relates a little bit, I think, to my third aha moment of the year, because I think what you're describing is something around belonging. And I think about belonging as being a place where people can co-create. And what I've been thinking about in that sense is around this idea of Othering. And so I've been involved in a number of really interesting, and hard, and deep, and amazing conversations around belonging and othering, and how that can manifest itself, how we can tackle the idea of othering. And the aha moment I had a little while back now was within one of these conversations, and it was actually about the ways that we other ourselves. And I articulated this on our mutual client and friend Lili Torre's podcast, The Dreaded Question.

Jen: Love that podcast.

Pete: Yeah, so she helped me put this aha moment together actually, which was the ways in which we other ourselves. And so my assertion, or dot-connecting in the moment was we other ourselves in the sense that we think that our fears, our doubts, our insecurities, and our flaws are unique to us. And that we are the flawed one, we are the broken one, and everyone else has got their life in order. And so we other ourselves in that sense, and we kind of beat ourselves up a little bit. Then, we don't other ourselves when we think about our strengths, and the things that make us uniquely us. We assume that everyone has the same thoughts that we have. We assume that everyone is as generous as we are, or as empathetic as we are, or as creative as we are, or as talented and skilled in a particular area as we are. And so we don't other ourselves in that sense. And that actually a more productive thing to do, I think, is to flip it. Which is to recognize that your fears, doubts, and insecurities, and flaws are not unique to you, that we all have them. And so that's okay. Let that go, you're human. And the things that make you uniquely you (the strengths, the weaknesses, the things that are meaningful to you and develop the posture that you have in the way you show up in the world), they are the things that make you uniquely you. They are the ways that you other yourselves, proactively and productively. Which is to say, as Seth Godin would say, "I am a purple cow because...x, y, z.". And so othering ourselves in a productive way, as opposed to a non-productive way, I think is an interesting aha moment that I've had that I'm even still trying to get my noodle around.

Jen: Oh, that's beautifully articulated. Wow, lots of aha moments in 2019.

Pete: So many. Did you say you had a bonus one...

Jen: That I said I would share, yeah.

Pete: So do I.

Jen: Because it happened...I wonder if it's the same one. Sometimes our brains do that. [laughter] It was an aha moment that we had, mutually. But I thought it would be fun to share it on the podcast.

Pete: Please!

Jen: That you and I had an aha moment when you were in New York, that we realized that we were friends. [laughter] Not just, not just colleagues anymore.

Pete: Oh, that's so nice. That's so nice.

Jen: But do you remember that?

Pete: I do. I, yeah.

Jen: Like, "Oh my gosh, I think this has moved into like, friendship.".

Pete: Yeah. Like, we hung out and talked about things that weren't related to the podcast and work. It was amazing. I do remember that moment. I remember it well.

Jen: It was cool.

Pete: It was very cool. I love that, friend. I had a bonus one that wasn't that. Sorry. [laughter] I'm just gonna...

Jen: Well, go ahead and take the wind out of my sails.

Pete: [laughter] Sorry! I feel like I should have left it and finished on that note.

Jen: It's okay.

Pete: But my, my bonus aha moment was something I've just pieced together in the last week or two, which is why it's a bonus. And that is that physical environment matters. And I've thought about this so much in terms of a work environment. So like, having an office where there's natural light, and some plants, and some people, and some coffee. But that the physical environment we live in...the way that we set up and structure our house, and our home, and the suburb, or the neighborhood, or the city that we live in contributes so much to the way we show up in the world. And I had completely underrated that. And so the aha moment for me has been: physical environment matters. Hmm.

Jen: I love it. Well listeners, wherever you're listening, in whatever environment you're in right now, we hope that you are comfy and cozy, and that you'll give yourselves a couple moments to reflect on your own 2019, and get clear on your own aha moments so that they can set you up...

Pete: Yes!

Jen: ...for an even more productive 2020.

Pete: Love it. And if you want to share any aha moments, listeners, please send us an email: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.com. We would love to hear from you.

Jen: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.