The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 68 - Groups

Transcript:

Pete: Hey, Jen.

Jen: Hey, Peter.

Pete: I have a question that I would like you to noodle on with me.

Jen: Okay.

Pete: The question is, how do you think about the Facebook group that you have for your community of changemakers in the performing arts? It's a very specific and random question, I know. [laughter]

Jen: I have a feeling I know why you're asking me this, because today's a special day, Peter.

Pete: Yes, today's the day.

Jen: We're launching our own Facebook group today.

Pete: That's right. And so who better to help me unpack how to do this in the best possible way than Jen Waldman, the expert of Facebook?

Jen: [laughter] Wow. Okay. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Jen: Okay, well let's just start with- this is the first and only time in human history that the words "Facebook", "expert", and "Jen Waldman" have been used the same sentence.

Pete: Yeah. It could also be the first time in human history that I've asked you for advice, and thoughts, and noodles on something tech-related too. Which is fun.

Jen: Oh my gosh, it really is a new decade, isn't it?

Pete: It's a decade of firsts. Here we are. So, perhaps some context. You and I have been talking for a little while, actually, about The Long and The Short Of It community. In the past, we've experimented with things like an Instagram account, in order to see if we could foster more conversation, essentially, and more questions around some of the topics and the themes that we unpack on this here podcast. And some of them have worked, like the Box O' Goodies, which is great. So we send that out once a week. Some of them haven't quite, like the Instagram account. And I have a couple of friends here in Australia (Josh and Tommy who have The Daily Talk Show), and some of their friends (Michelle and Zara who have a podcast called Shameless, which is wildly successful), both of whom have private Facebook groups that are so well done, and create such amazing and in-depth conversations, and questions, and answers, and ideas around the themes that they talk about in their podcasts, that I said to you a few weeks ago, like, "What if we did something similar?". What would it look like to have essentially, I guess, almost like a discussion forum or discussion group centered around the core themes of the podcast? That complements the podcast, that complements the Box O' Goodies, and that provides space for listeners to connect, essentially. So that's the, that's the context. Did I miss anything?

Jen: No. The only thing I would add is that when you brought it up, it seemed like the most obvious thing. How did we not see it?

Pete: Right, of course, which is usually the way. [laughter] But I think it's...I guess part of the reason we haven't is possibly our aversion, both of our aversions to things like social media. And knowing that if used in the wrong way they can be, like, damaging to one's mental health, honestly.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: So, I guess part of it was...you know actually, just recently Brene Brown I heard talk about social media in such a useful way, which I think fits here. And she described it as being like fire. Which is: You can use it to warm yourself and others, and to keep yourself comfortable or cozy, like fire. Or you can use it for destruction, and you can use it in negative ways, and some people do that. And what I've perhaps not realized, and not thought about enough is like how might you use it productively, like fire?

Jen: Yeah. Well I, generally speaking, don't love social media. And it's funny, because I have a large number of Facebook groups that I run. But I don't think about them as being part of my social media use. That's so interesting. Okay, I gotta unpack that a little bit.

Pete: Please, please, please. Tell me more.

Jen: Because I'm confused as I hear myself say that out loud. But to me, social media is scrolling. It's like the news feed. It's hearing things that aren't that valuable, and wasting time, and getting sucked into a vortex. The way I use my Facebook groups is to put communities of people together around something very specific. So the one that you were referencing is, well we call it the Forum for my studio, where anyone who has ever physically come to the studio to take a class is in that Forum. And we have a very strict safe space policy in there, which we could go into, I suppose. And it's an incredibly useful, safe online space that people get a lot of value out of. And for a lot of my other classes, the individual class will have its own Facebook group, where people post their homework, ask questions, I'll occasionally pop on with a Facebook Live answering some of the questions. And it allows people to stay accountable, to stay connected to each other between our in-person meetings.

Pete: Yeah, so this is why I think you're...I mean, I joked about you being an expert with Facebook, but I think what I, what I mean by that is you've thought about using it in such a productive and interesting way that I've just never considered until recently, 'till we started talking about this. So, could you unpack a little more like how you think about these groups, or like what it looks like to create a group? I love this idea of it being a community of people together surrounded by something specific, I think were the words you used, something like that. Tell me more.

Jen: Yeah. So, I mean I'll use the studio, like our big Forum as an example, because it's the one that has the most people in it, and the most different kinds of conversations going on. Essentially, even though among us there are many differences, the thing that everyone in that room has in common is that everybody's an artist. Everybody has a connection to the theater. Many people are actors. Many people are living in New York City, but not all. In fact, a lot of people who decide to stop acting professionally, and leave the city, and move somewhere else stay in the forum so they can stay a part of our community and our industry conversations. So, the audience is very niche (in the words of Seth Godin- "smallest viable audience").

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: So we're, we're not for everyone. We're for a super specific group of people. And then the other thing was in the chaos of the social media ecosystem, I had no interest in creating a space that would foster anonymity, or snark...

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: ...or cynicism. I really wanted a space where people could ask great questions, get a bunch of different perspectives and different kinds of answers with the understanding that we are assuming best intentions of each other, and that we're holding each other to a high standard, and that we're offering people true safety. Meaning, we don't have a ton of rules in the Forum, it's mostly intentions. But there is one super strict rule which is- if you copy and paste someone else's comments anywhere, it's one strike and you're out, and you don't get back in. And what's amazing is we've been operating this Forum, I would have to look but I'm going to say since the beginning of Facebook, and we have never had to kick anyone out.

Pete: Wow. Wow. Okay. So how might we apply similar thinking, similar logic and try and create a similar type of environment for The Long and The Short Of It listeners? That was kind of the question that you and I started talking about a couple of weeks ago, which led to this conversation. So should we start with "who's it for", "what's it for", do you think?

Jen: Shouldn't we always...shouldn't we always?

Pete: I mean, yeah, we should. We should.

Jen: Okay, so, who's it for? Listeners of The Long and The Short Of It. But more specifically, people who, when they're done listening to the podcast, want to keep talking about it, want to engage in conversations about the ideas that we've talked about with other people who are coming at it maybe not from the same perspective, but with the same context.

Pete: Yes. Yes. I love that. I love that. So it's like, it's almost like a subsection of listeners, right? Because there's listeners, and then there's listeners who want to go deeper with their understanding of one of the topics, and create conversations, and create connections with other listeners. Hmm. That feels good. It also feels kind of niche, or smallest viable audience which we know is how to approach these things.

Jen: So the "what's it for", I think, is really important, because that's going to sort of dictate the way you and I engage with it. And I'll tell you that the thing that has been the key ingredient in the Forum for the studio is that I don't force the conversations, I don't run the conversations. I'm there, and I occasionally will post something, or I occasionally will comment, but it's not about me. It's about the other people in the community connecting to each other. It's like strengthening the community tie. It's not about strengthening me as the leader of the community, it's about the community itself. So as we think about the what, what it's for, it's for people to find each other, and engage. It's not for us, meaning you and me, to start dictating who should talk to who, and how they should talk, and what they should talk about. We post the podcast episodes, and then people can talk about it. And occasionally we'll show up, but it's not for us to promote Pete and Jen.

Pete: I love that. You know what I really like about that, too? I just had this realization as you were just describing that, is...you and I talk a lot about in the work that we do (coaching, or facilitating, or running workshops, or doing keynotes, or just listening as a curious human), this idea of holding space for others. And so what you described to me just feels like holding space for others. That this isn't a platform for us to promote ourselves, it's a platform for us to hold space for others to have conversations, to get their own insights, to ask their own questions, to challenge anything that they feel like challenging. And that part of that will be every now and then we'll pop in with a question, or an idea, or an insight, or, to your point, we'll share the episode, obviously. And occasionally, we might do something like a Facebook Live, and like do a little riff, and add some more questions. But ultimately, the idea is we're holding space for others to connect, and collaborate, and unpack various topics.

Jen: Okay, so I just want to make sure that I have this clarity, because you just articulated it so well. So, the "what it's for" is to hold space for people to have meaningful conversations with each other. And who those conversations are between are listeners of The Long and The Short Of It, who want to engage with other listeners of The Long and The Short Of It.

Pete: Yes. Beautifully summarized, beautifully summarized.

Jen: Okay, this calls out a really important topic for me that I've been noodling on a lot in other contexts, but I think it's relevant here. And it's the idea of boundaries and expectations. And I do think that they are different, but they go hand in hand.

Pete: Tell me more.

Jen: So, you can apply this in so many different ways. Let's just talk about the boundaries and expectations of social media usage. So I know for myself, I have to set strict boundaries around what I'm engaging with online, and how long, and with who, and what, and all that good stuff. And then those boundaries allow me to offer clear expectations for other people to have of me, and how I will engage. So you and I've talked about this offline, but I don't think we've talked about this on the podcast, that we both use a newsfeed eradicator.

Pete: Yes, yes. The greatest tool ever invented.

Jen: So that allows us to maintain our boundary around our social media usage. So, I use the Google Chrome extension called...it's literally called News Feed Eradicator (I don't know if you use the same one). But it replaces your newsfeed with an inspirational quote, and you can't get to your newsfeed. It's great.

Pete: Yeah, mine does the same. So when you log into Facebook, specifically, rather than seeing a newsfeed that scrolls, you see an unscrollable page with a quote on it.

Jen: Yeah, and your groups listed. If you've pinned them to your shortcuts, you see your groups listed on the left hand side, and then you can engage with your groups and then sign off. So that feels like a super clear boundary. And then in terms of engaging with other people in a community, it is vital that the boundaries (or in my Forum, we call them the intentions) of what is and is not permissible is so clear. You know, clear is kind, unclear is unkind. And then when the boundaries are clear, and everyone has agreed to them, we can set realistic expectations of each other, and then hold each other accountable when we've violated the boundaries, and not met the expectations. So what this looks like for me is...the only rule we have that'll get you kicked out of the Forum is if you break the code of confidence. But sometimes people post things that they haven't re-read before they hit publish, and it might contain something that someone might not understand the intention behind, or may have something in it that could be hurtful to someone. So what I'll typically do is take a screenshot of the post, then delete it, then private message the person who wrote it, including the screenshot, and I'll say, "I deleted your post from the Forum, and I want to share with you why I did that.". And then I'll outline (very kindly, and with empathy) that I am assuming best intentions, and I want them to imagine what it might be like for someone else to read it with this new context in mind. And almost across the board, people will write me back and say, "Oh my goodness, you're so right. I didn't intend it that way. Thank you for deleting it.". And you can help people get better at being part of a community by setting those clear boundaries and expectations.

Pete: And I imagine that's very rare, right?

Jen: Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't, I don't know that I could count it on more than two hands. Well, I could count it on more than two hands. I can count on four hands, how many times in the last decade I've had to do it.

Pete: In a decade, yeah. And so that's specifically for the JWS Forum. Okay, interesting. And so, so just to like riff on something you said real quick, which is a broader theme that I've been thinking a lot about recently around boundaries...which is that boundaries are actually assets. That so many times when you hear the word "boundaries", or people hear the word "boundaries", they think about like restriction, or they think about like negative...they have negative connotations with the word "boundaries". But what we're talking about here is you said, "A boundary allows me to do something.". And I think that's such a brilliant frame, that a boundary is actually an asset. So, we encourage those taking part in our Facebook group to set a boundary with themself that might be, "I'm just going to check in on it once a week.". Or, "I'm going to check in on it for five minutes a day.". Or whatever that boundary needs to be. That that is an asset so that you can show up in other areas of your life in a more productive and interesting way. So, just calling out the usage of the word "boundaries". Yeah, I really, I really dig that. For now, what do, what do people need to know? What do we need to say out loud (other than "who's it for", and "what's it for"), in order to join The Long and The Short Of It Facebook group? This is a bit exciting.

Jen: Oh my gosh, I know. I just got really excited, because it seems like we've come to the moment where we're inviting people to participate.

Pete: Mm-hmm.

Jen: Whee! Okay, so you could go to Facebook and type in: The Long and The Short Of It. And then you'll see a funny picture of us, I'm sure. Oh no, it's not that funny. It actually...well, it's you laughing, and me looking very, very serious. [laughter]

Pete: Which is...that's pretty standard. [laughter]

Jen: And when you request to join, you'll be prompted to answer a couple questions to make sure you're not a robot. And once we've proven that you are a human with a heart, we'll let you in, and then you can go about connecting with your fellow listeners.

Pete: Come on in. Yes. And if you want to go to the URL, as opposed to searching through Facebook, I believe it is: facebook.com/groups/thelongandtheshortofit. That will take you directly there.

Jen: Oh my gosh, I think we did it. I think we just launched our Facebook group.

Pete: We did. I'm excited about this. I'm excited about this. It feels more inclusive. It feels like we can create a space where people belong, and are able to comfortably be themselves, ask questions, promote ideas, challenge assertions...all of that juicy stuff that we want our listeners to be doing anyway.

Jen: Yeah, now we're holding a space for them to do that. Alright, well if you want to join us over there, we'll see you in the Facebook group.

Pete: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.