The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 69 - Community

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: Hey, Jen.

Jen: Well today, I want us to chat about one of my favorite topics: community.

Pete: Ah.

Jen: And I'd love to do that by way of your high school geometry class.

Pete: [laughter] What?

Jen: Remember when your geometry teacher said, "A square is always a rhombus, but a rhombus is not always a square."?

Pete: I mean, I feel like we might have had different math teachers growing up. I'm not sure what that means, but I'm definitely curious as to how that relates to community.

Jen: Well, I'll explain it to you.

Pete: Please.

Jen: This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Jen: Okay. So a square is always a rhombus, but a rhombus is not always a square.

Pete: So confusing.

Jen: A community is always a network, but a network is not always a community.

Pete: Interesting.

Jen: Yes, indeed. And I want us to dig in, and look around, and explore, and see what we can find when we look at the concept of network versus community, community versus network. Because I would like to assert that the way to build your community, or communities is to reach out into your network and then move people from the network into the community. Expand and include, expand and include.

Pete: I like it. So should we start with what you are thinking when you say "network"? What comes to mind?

Jen: Yes.

Pete: Please. What is a network for Jen Waldman?

Jen: A network is a series of connections of people with similarities. So networks take on a lot of different shapes and sizes. For example, I am in the alumni network of my alma mater.

Pete: Okay.

Jen: That is something I share with anyone who went to the same college, we are all part of that same network. On social media platforms, someone who is a friend of mine and a friend of yours, we're in the same network. In our various industries, someone who knows someone, who knows someone, who knows someone, we're all part of a network. It's basically like the mega-version of Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon. Do you know that game?

Pete: [laughter] I do. For those that don't, the idea is that everyone is within six degrees of Kevin Bacon essentially, right?

Jen: Essentially, yes. So that is a network- that there is something that connects us, but we're not necessarily united.

Pete: Mmm.

Jen: And this is where community is similar to a network. A community is always a network in that there is some connection point between all of its members. But the difference between a network and a community is that the people in the community have chosen to be part of the community because of something shared, some internal something shared. So, an idea, a value, a belief, a passion. So I look at the communities I'm part of...I'm part of the Broadway community. We all share a deep passionate love for our art form. And we are also connected as a network. I think about my studio community. This is a group of artists who have voluntarily come together in order to grow, and change, and learn. I'm also parts of other communities. So, what I think my point is (and what I would love to hear you respond to), is that networking...that word "networking" can feel so icky, and like you need to go take a shower.

Pete: Yes.

Jen: And instead, what if you were to look at the idea of networking as building your community by reaching your arms out into your network and inviting people into your community?

Pete: Ooh. You're speaking my lingo. Because prior to you mentioning this five minutes ago...I can't stand the word "networking", or the concepts that are, the emotions that it invokes when people are like, "Just go to do some networking.". Or, "I'm going to do some networking.".

Jen: Eww. Eww.

Pete: Or like, "Come to our networking event.". And you're like, "Is this speed dating for corporates? Like, what is this? I hate this.". It's so transactional, it's so forced. And what's interesting about hearing you describe community, the first thing that I feel like I heard is there's a level of opt in. There's a level of choice that I make when I step into a community, which perhaps doesn't exist as much when I'm part of a network. Like, I could be probably part of someone's network, maybe without me realizing it. I don't know. Is that...do you think that's true? Can you be part of...?

Jen: Oh, you could totally be part of a network without knowing that you're part of someone else's network. Like, when you get the email that's like, "So and so gave me your email address...".

Pete: Right.

Jen: Well, now you know that you're in that person's network. Just prior to that moment, you were unaware.

Pete: You had no idea. Yeah. So I'm all about this idea of let's debunk, or reframe, or come up with an alternative to, or a more generous way of thinking about networking. Because in my existence, that term feels icky. That term of "networking" is often associated with...essentially, you network so that you can sell. You network so that you have more prospects. And that makes you more money. And that is a very narrow view, I acknowledge. But that is certainly the worldview that I've had, having worked in startups, and corporates, and sales, and marketing, and all of that. The idea of networking is essentially so that you can sell these people stuff. And I hate that.

Jen: What I think I'm hearing is that networking (the verb "to network"), is essentially to adopt a taker's mindset.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: But community building is to adopt a giver's mindset.

Pete: Yes. I love this. I love this, I love this.

Jen: That doesn't negate the fact that networks still exist. And without them, you and I would literally have never met.

Pete: This is true. This is true.

Jen: I mean, really. Every person that we know who is not assigned to us by familial relationship is someone we have met through a network.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: That's just the nature of how people meet.

Pete: I love that. Okay, so this is good. This is helping me break down the ickiness. So we acknowledge that in order to meet people, including the wonderful people in our lives, we have had to navigate some sort of network, or they've come into our network, or we've come into their network. So, I can get down with that. Yeah, I can get down with that.

Jen: Yes. And here's another way to look at it...you may have heard me talk about creativity this way, certainly other creatives talk about creativity this way. That creativity is essentially taking two seemingly unrelated things and finding the connection point between them. So the idea of reaching out into your network and finding connection is actually creative.

Pete: Ooh. I like that. I like that. And when you say that, are you referring to creatively figuring out ways to include them in your community? Is that kind of the step that you take?

Jen: Well that is certainly one element of it, is offering something creative. But I'm talking about literally the act of creation. Like where there was no relationship, we have now created the possibility of a relationship.

Pete: Oof. That's good. That's good, that's good. Okay. I like that. And then how, and when, and where should we be thinking about the next layer? Which is, from what you described, is like...it's almost like we have this broad network. In my, in my head I'm like, "Okay, cool. I have a broad network, which I can then build a community off the back of, or become a part of a community through a network.". So how does that like...how does that bounce around in your noggin?

Jen: Well, I think this goes back to something that we either talk about tangentially, or in many episodes very directly. It's the idea of being intentional, and pursuing something with purpose. That what we're looking to do is make positive changes in our corner of the world, and the best way to do that is with other people. And...

Pete: Yes.

Jen: Do you remember...I'm sure we at some point on the podcast talked about the book Reach Out by Molly Beck?

Pete: I do, yeah.

Jen: I'm totally paraphrasing. But essentially what she says in her book is, if the people you already knew could create the change with you that you're trying to make, or could help you in the way you want to be helped, or if you could help them in the way they want to be helped, wouldn't you've already done it?

Pete: It would have already happened.

Jen: That it's going to require additional people. That you're going to have to reach to the edges of your network so that you can expand the edges of your network. And in order to make the kinds of positive changes that we all want to make, we need to know more people with different skill sets, and diverse backgrounds, and different passions. So like to me, the idea of building a network and then fostering a community out of that network, or inviting a community, or nurturing a community is quite a positive thing.

Pete: Yeah. I love this. Okay, so you have created, and cultivated, and built, and maintained one of the more remarkable communities that I've witnessed, in your studio with the artists...

Jen: Aww, thanks.

Pete: ...with the artists, and the changemakers over there in NYC. So who better to answer this question of- what do you think makes up a good community? Or, how do you think about the concept of creating community, within the idea of having a network that becomes a community?

Jen: Huh. I need to, I need to just noodle on that for a second.

Pete: Please, noodle away. So I can start, while you noodle. What I heard you say was (a few times, sort of indirectly), was this idea of shared values.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: And so, I think one can exist in a network without shared values. But I feel like the step of becoming a community, or creating a community, or stepping into a community is you do so because there is some sort of shared vision, shared values, shared change that you wish to see in the world that kind of brings you together in the first place. Is that a fair starting point?

Jen: That is so fair. And if I think back to the very early days of the studio community when there were literally ten of us, that was it.

Pete: So good.

Jen: It was me, eight students, and one music director.

Pete: Wow.

Jen: And that's how we started. And essentially, we began with a belief. And that belief was born of a very tangible problem that everyone in the group was facing, which was we were living in the artistic epicenter of the United States, and we couldn't find a place to be creative.

Pete: Wow.

Jen: So essentially, what I wanted to do was offer a creative playground for these theater artists. And we got together in the room with the belief that every single person had some locked potential that deserved to be unlocked through creativity. And once that belief was shared and we were all acting on it, then those people started telling their friends, and their friends, and then the network started growing, and the network became this now very thriving, loving, supportive community that people self-select.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: I think that this is an important point, actually. There are communities that you self-identify, that you say, "I choose that", based on something internal, as I mentioned earlier. But one of the things that our modern society tends to do is assign people to communities based on external attributes, and, um, or things that we...not even external attributes, but like things that we think we know about each other. Um. And sometimes people don't self-identify as parts of those communities. So I'm restricting what I'm talking about in this conversation to the communities that we choose for ourselves.

Pete: Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Communities where...so, if I was to add a...if we're thinking about criteria of a community, the first being a shared belief or vision or values, like you spoke about, I think another one is like, a community is somewhere where we feel like we belong.

Jen: Yes.

Pete: And that, to me, is the self-selection piece. Right? Is- I feel like I belong in this community, so I choose to be there. Not- someone told me I'm included in this community, but I actually don't feel like I belong. They are very, very different things. So I think this idea of belonging, this idea of choosing to be in the community is what makes a great community, which is kind of what we're talking about.

Jen: You and I are part of the altMBA community. Different roles within that community, but I want to call it out as being one of the most amazing...

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: ...communities to be a part of. Because unlike the studio here, where everybody actually knows everybody somehow...either they've met in person, or they've met through our online Forum. Like there is, and most of them live in New York City. So there is something that is very sort of local, or centralized. The altMBA community is completely global. And other than the handful of people you go through the program with in your, in your learning groups, you don't know anybody. And yet, when I travel internationally, I will post something in the altMBA alumni group and say like, "Hey, going to be in Hong Kong. Any alums there?". And then I will absolutely meet up with a total stranger, and we will embrace as if we'd known each other our whole lives because we are part of this community. And our values, which have been made so clear by our leader, Seth Godin...you must believe in the values in order to participate in the community. So, there's almost like a pre- trust-vetting process.

Pete: Yeah, yeah. Because one of the values is generosity, in that sense. Right? So it's the generosity, the hospitality, the desire, and the want to connect with one another is part of that, that first criteria we talked about, which is like the shared belief, or the shared values. So another one that springs to mind for me, again if we're just like riffing on what makes great communities, is this idea of them being places that are co-created.

Jen: Mmm.

Pete: And I think about this a lot, especially recently, which is that a community where people feel like they belong is, I think, always one in which they feel like they have...they're empowered. One where they feel like they are co-creating the community, the environment, the space, the vision together. And that it's not something that's like bestowed upon them, and they just follow rules. But actually, like, they feel empowered to co-create.

Jen: Ooh. Yes, yes, yes. I'm...my brain just started spinning a million miles a minute, because I have definitely been part of groups where there are lots of rules that do not feel like a community.

Pete: Exactly. Exactly.

Jen: Yes.

Pete: And I think that's, I think that's really common actually, is like, I could think of a number of groups...and you could get super political about it, which I won't for this, this podcast. But this idea that people think they've got a community, and people think they're including people in a community, but it's actually just a group with like a, "You have to fit into our rules. These are our rules so follow them, or else.".

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Pete: That's not a community. That's not a place where I feel safe. That's not a place where I feel like I belong. And it's not a place that I can co-create with you. So I don't think that's community.

Jen: I want to go back to what you were talking about earlier with...how do you start expanding beyond the current edges of your community, and reach into your network?

Pete: Mmm.

Jen: And I want to point back to a previous episode that we did on our favorite word, "spruiking".

Pete: Spruik!

Jen: Which is...we defined as "to promote an idea".

Pete: Mm-hmm.

Jen: And the way we're talking about community with a shared belief, vision, value, or idea...approaching reaching into your network with a spruiking mindset.

Pete: Love it.

Jen: To know what the idea is, and then to share it feels really good. And I will tell you, I have had some pretty crazy reach outs over the last couple years where I have seen work someone is doing, and then I've found them somehow through the network, and reached out with a giver's mindset, promoting an idea, using the concept of spruiking.

Pete: Yes.

Jen: And have had these incredible conversations, meetings, and in some cases, projects...

Pete: Mmm.

Jen: ...collaborations come out of these totally cold, we didn't know each other at all turned into: "Wow, we are now part of a community, and we are working together toward the change we seek to make.".

Pete: This is so good.

Jen: So it can feel scary, sometimes, to reach out to someone. But if you really adopt the giver's mindset, changes everything.

Pete: I think this is so brilliant, what you just did, Jen Waldman. Which is taking the idea of a network, in the interest of expanding your community, the pathway being the spruik. And I've heard you frame spruiks like this before, which is, "If you're the kind of person who believes 'x, y, z', then do we have a community for you.".

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Pete: And I think that giver's mindset is so powerful, where it's an invitation to come into a community that you can co-create, where you can feel like you belong. But it's an invitation. It's a, "If you are the kind of person who believes this, you might be interested in this. Feel free to step into this community with me.". I think that is...that's brilliant.

Jen: Well, thank you very much. So, Peter, have we actually made good on the geometrical idea that a community is always a network, but a network is not always a community?

Pete: I have no idea about that geometry reference that you made at the start, in terms of the rhombus and the square. (Rhomboid and the square?) But I'm with you. I'm catching what you're throwing. That a network is not always a community, but a community is always a network. And if I was to just repeat back the things that we talked about that make up a great community are shared beliefs, or shared values, a place where we feel like we belong, and we can be ourselves, and a place that is co-created so we all have input and empowerment into what that space looks, and feels, and acts like.

Jen: Wow. I'm so grateful that we are part of the same community, Mr. Shepherd.

Pete: Me too. Me too. And to our Long and The Short community, if you're out there and you feel like reaching into your network to bring more people into the community, we would love you to do so. Take a screenshot and share this episode with a friend, and extend our community by reaching into your network.

Jen: And that is The Long and The Short Of It.