The Long and The Short Of It

Episode 75 - Skill

Transcript:

Jen: Hello, listeners. Pete and I have been having a hoot over in our Facebook group. And if you're not over there, what are you waiting for? We're having very interesting conversations with very interesting people, and we would love to have you. Also, we are dropping exclusive content in that group, like things from the cutting room floor, things you would never hear unless you were a member of our Facebook group. So go to Facebook, type in The Long and The Short Of It, and come join us.

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Jen: Hello, Peter.

Pete: Hey, Jen.

Jen: So Peter...

Pete: Mm-hmm...

Jen: I recently met, in the flesh, like live in living color...Seth Godin.

Pete: Yes. Yes, yes, yes. And when I saw the photo, my brain almost exploded with two of my favorite changemakers in the one frame.

Jen: Well, my brain exploded for six hours straight. And honestly, that's probably a whole other episode that we need to record about like meeting a person you hold in high esteem and having them exceed your expectations. But that is for another day. What I want to share with you right now are three little words that Seth said that have been haunting me, in a good way, ever since.

Pete: Hmm. The ghosts of Seth Godin. What are the three words?

Jen: Change requires skill.

Pete: Ah yes, this feels very worthy of an unpack. This is The Long and The Short Of It.

Jen: I always believed that the three little words you wanted to hear were "I love you". But no, forget that! Change requires skill. Those are the three words I really need to hear all day, every day.

Pete: Much better. Ah, I love it. So what...in what context does this come up? Because we could go in so many directions. Maybe you should paint the context first. Was this a question you asked? Or was it just something he said?

Jen: It was just something he was riffing on. But the second he said it, it started connecting a lot of dots for me around a lot of things that, uh, drive me crazy (what a surprise), and a lot of things that I really deeply believe in. Like, let's start with the things I really deeply believe in. I mean, I know we've discussed this on the podcast before...I believe that technique is essential.

Pete: Mm-hmm.

Jen: That having a foundational technique that is sturdy, and functioning, and resilient, and can endure is really critical if you're looking to build something sustainable. And especially, you know, in the world of the arts, you know, I'm dealing with a lot of actors who have to perform eight shows a week. You can't do that on talent. That requires technique and skill.

Pete: Mmm.

Jen: So things that I really care about, and I want to help people get better at, focusing on the skill set is really where it's at. And then on the flip side, in the world of the things that drive Jen crazy, there are so many things out there that I now can see are not nudging forward in any way, not because people don't care, but because people literally lack the skill required to make the change.

Pete: Alright, alright, alright. I have a question, a jumping off point if you like, but first I just want to share. The thing that first comes to mind for me when I hear "change requires skill" is delight and joy, because it suggests to me that everyone create change and that creating change is a choice. So...

Jen: Yes.

Pete: ...with that frame of reference, perhaps we should talk about, like, the different types of skills. Because you and I have spoken a little bit before offline about how there are different types of skills. And you mentioned before, technique is kind of one version of what I would call like a hard skill.

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Pete: But we also know there are other types of skills, which some people call soft skills. Seth and a few others have started talking about as real skills, which I think is a much more interesting frame.

Jen: Yep. Yes.

Pete: So I'm curious, what do you think of the difference? And should we unpack the difference between hard versus real skills?

Jen: Yes. So, hard skills are things that are more easily measured.

Pete: Mm-hmm.

Jen: Things that you can create a data set around in order to measure.

Pete: Mmm.

Jen: They're things that, from a more scientific perspective, can be proven somehow.

Pete: Mm-hmm.

Jen: So like in the world of singing, for example, if you want to increase your vocal range, you will work with a technical teacher who is able to help you learn more about your vocal mechanism, so you can manipulate it accordingly. Now, that is a hard skill.

Pete: Mm-hmm.

Jen: But when you sing the song, and you want to help other people to feel seen with the sound of your voice, that's empathy.

Pete: Mmm.

Jen: And that is a soft skill. That is something that you can't really measure on paper. That's something that is much more...not that the technical act of singing isn't human, but there's a much deeper human component. And it is a skill in that you can cultivate it, you can build it, you can harness it, you can grow it, but it's less tangible, it's less visible as you're looking at it from the outside.

Pete: I like that. I like that distinction. That I think real skills (which is the rebrand of soft skills), I think of them being more human. Yeah. More human...

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Pete: ...and more unique. More individual, perhaps, as opposed to a hard skill, which to me is almost like, "this is the way that we do things" or "this is the way that you can do things". "This is the way you can execute on this thing. There are five steps, follow these 1-2-3-4-5 steps." Feels a little more calculated or systematic as opposed to a real skill which feels, to your point, more like a practice which is ongoing and never ending.

Jen: Wow, I'm just having this big aha moment.

Pete: Oh my goodness, get it out!

Jen: Which is that the people who I know who are master artists have taken the Venn Diagram of hard skills and real skills (or hard skills and soft skills), and have completely overlapped the two circles.

Pete: Mmm.

Jen: Like he is able to empathize and feel with them, which makes him an artist. So there's, in the, in the world of the arts...I'm going to have to really unpack this over the next couple weeks. But I am right now cycling through the Rolodex of master artists that I know, and I would say for all of them...I'm having trouble finding an exception in this moment. For all of them this is true, that their hard skills and their soft skills overlap completely to create their artistry.

Pete: [gasp]

Jen: Like, I think about a friend of the podcast. He is an incredible technical piano player. Like when he plays, he plays so articulately and with such a mastery of technique. And he is sensitive to the person he's playing for.

Pete: That is so cool. So cool. And I think, do you, so do you think that what we're saying is it requires...there's a certain level, a certain base level of the hard skills that's required in order to start to overlap that Venn Diagram? Like, you need to know how to play the piano in the first place.

Jen: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: At an extremely high level. [laughter]

Pete: Like, I'd like...I don't know how to play the piano. I couldn't just walk up to the piano and go, "Well I'm good at empathy, so I'm just about to nail this.". [laughter]

Jen: Oh my gosh. If you could do that...wow, Peter, you would have a whole other business on your hands.

Pete: Wow. I tell you what though, that's a fascinating aha moment. Because if you think about...my brain just thought about like a doctor or a surgeon. A really effective doctor or surgeon knows the hard skill of performing surgery. [laughter] I'm laughing because I just saw Jen's face. She's had a, I think a slightly mind-bending moment. So a really good surgeon knows the hard skills of performing surgery, but then they're even better in that they can empathize, and communicate with, and talk to the patient, post- and pre- surgery. They have really good emotional intelligence, or EQ, which I think is fundamental, and at the core of what we're calling real skills. It's emotional intelligence.

Jen: Whoa, whoa, whoa. So the reason I'm freaking out right now with a giant emoji face is because I'm thinking ahead to some work you and I are going to be doing with some doctors coming up, and how this is really something that we can harness the power of.

Pete: Hmm.

Jen: What is the, what is the art behind what you're doing? That you might...and this probably applies across industry lines.

Pete: Totally. It totally does.

Jen: Like right now I'm focusing on the things that are just in my consciousness, but I can think of other people I've worked with in other industries. Um, leaders in finance...

Pete: Accounting, yeah.

Jen: ...in healthcare, in energy, in plumbing. I did a keynote for a large group of people who work in plumbing and HVAC. And a lot of what they were talking about had to do with this kind of art.

Pete: Mmm. I remember that.

Jen: They were lamenting the fact...and maybe the listeners will find this interesting, and maybe we'll cut it out. But they were lamenting the fact that what they want to do is bring these appliances into people's homes, and like be invited into someone's home and meet their family, and teach them how to use the things that are in their home to make their lives easier.

Pete: Mmm.

Jen: And they're lamenting the fact that you could go and order something on Amazon and have it dropped off on your doorstep, and all of the art of improving a family lifestyle has been lost. And that is just so fascinating to me.

Pete: Isn't that cool? So we're saying art is essentially a combination of real skills overlapping with hard skills (knowledge that we have), and all of that is very human. Hmm. And what's interesting in the words you used, and the way you described that, was the desire. As humans, we have this almost innate desire to, to want to focus on real skills. But that I would probably suggest to date, the stories that we tell ourselves because of things like, honestly, school and university, are that the hard skills are really important. And I wonder if part of what we're saying is that hard skills are important, yeah, but they're, they can be overrated without some combination of real skills. Like if you're a really, really good doctor, but you can't have empathy and hold a conversation with someone...are you a good doctor?

Jen: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Now I'm thinking about this in reverse right now.

Pete: Hmm.

Jen: A couple months ago, you and I ran the Big Ideas Lab, which was essentially a group of, of people, all of whom identified as artists, who had changemaking ideas that were not always about art, and wanted to learn a skill set that would allow them to codify their ideas and then share them in an effective way. So in this case, these are highly empathetic people, very creative, their, their real skills are on point. But they were completely missing...as it related to the work we were doing in that class, they were completely missing the hard skills. So they came to us for the hard skills. And then when they were able to overlap their new hard skills with their already existing real skills, they were able to turn their ideas into art and share them.

Pete: Mmm. So good. So good. I wonder if it's...like, building on that. You talked about empathy being at the core of who they were as humans. What are, when you think of real skills, like what are other real skills that come to mind other than empathy?

Jen: Okay, so, well, this is a...I would like to tag on to this conversation after I make this list. So, empathy. Creativity.

Pete: Mmm.

Jen: Compassion.

Pete: Mm-hmm.

Jen: Clarity.

Pete: Mm-hmm.

Jen: Community building.

Pete: Mm-hmm. Can I add some?

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: Generosity.

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Pete: Care.

Jen: Yeah.

Pete: And I think this probably summarizes a lot of, almost all of them: emotional intelligence.

Jen: Okay, so I want to just call out that what we just listed was not actually a skill set, but the results of a skill set.

Pete: They're a posture.

Jen: Yes.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: And so the skill-

Pete: Mmm.

Jen: -that allows you to be a person who has empathy, or who has generosity...

Pete: Yes.

Jen: ...the question is: how do you get those things? So-

Pete: That's so good.

Jen: -the skill set of empathy is...well, I'd love to hear your take on this. I'll throw some ideas in there. It is asking questions. It's listening. It's really listening, deeply.

Pete: Mm-hmm.

Jen: It is creating a space in which someone feels seen and heard so they can fully express who they are.

Pete: Yeah. I think...I've had this recent verbiage come into my life around empathy, which is essentially that empathy is about meeting people where they're at. And I think the skill that we use in order to do that is to ask questions and hold space. That's my thirty thousand foot summary. If we can ask questions, and hold space, and practice that skill, I believe we're practicing empathy.

Jen: Okay, I love this so much, because what I think it does...this is so meta, because we're essentially offering a skill set to help you to define your skill set.

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: Is if you know that you are someone who wants to have the skill of compassion, the question is: what skills equal compassion? How would you actually itemize the skill set? That way you can hold yourself accountable for actually practicing all of your skills, improving all of your skills, optimizing all of your skills, rather than just saying "I'm compassionate.".

Pete: Yes.

Jen: Because saying "I'm compassionate", doesn't require a lot of skill. But actually acting on your compassion does.

Pete: Yeah. I love that. What we just, what we outlined, like I mentioned briefly, were postures. And the thing about a posture is it's something that you are always practicing. And I think about this a lot because I'm six foot seven. [laughter] And what I know to be true about a good posture is you need prompts. And I think the prompts are what you just described: the skills that underpin those postures. And so for me growing up being tall, my mom used to always say to me, "Head up, shoulders back. Head up, shoulders back.". They were like my two prompts. So if I could practice the skill of putting my head up and pulling my shoulders back, then I would develop the posture of being someone who is proud of being tall. So, just to use that example as almost like a metaphor for: what are the skills that sit behind the posture? Hmm. That's a juicy question. That's, I think, the metaphor for what we're talking about around real skills. Which is: can you give yourself, or what prompts can you give yourself in order to cultivate the postures that you wish to, essentially, emulate? Like generosity. Like compassion. Like empathy. Like care. Like community building. Like creativity.

Jen: So to circle this back around to Seth Godin.

Pete: Mm-hmm. Please.

Jen: What does this have to do with change? Change requires skill. Change requires skill. So the idea that we (the collective we and then the individual I) have things in life that I would like to see change (or that we would like to see change), and it's easy to get frustrated when things aren't changing...we can now ask ourselves questions like: where is the skill set not up to par?

Pete: Mmm.

Jen: In what areas might I be able to cultivate new skills in myself, and/or offer new skills to others? Like as an example...don't let me go too far down this rabbit hole. But one of the things that drives me crazy-

Pete: Here we go again!

Jen: -is in my industry is the phenomenon of performative wokeness. Like, people performing this idea that they're woke when in fact, they're not. And I, I lose a lot of sleep over this, and I spend more hours than I'd like to admit thinking about this. And hearing those three words from Seth ("change requires skill"), immediately struck a chord in my heart.

Pete: Mmm.

Jen: Because I recognize that if I want to see performative wokeness turn into actual wokeness, my contribution has to be skill based. That I can't just ask people to suddenly know what they don't know.

Pete: Mm-hmm.

Jen: And suddenly, like, in an instant have read all the things, and learned all the things, and listened to all the things. No. I have a chance to show up more generously and, and either invite people to learn a skill set, or release the people who don't have the skill set and stop blaming them for the change they're not making.

Pete: Yes. And what you remind me of in all of that is that you can't hack change. That just saying, "we now believe in this", or "we now do this", is not enough.

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Pete: That change requires skill, which requires hard work and emotional labor, and the realization that there is no end point. There is just practice towards a version of the future that we wish to see. That we might, and probably won't ever arrive there, we just seek to constantly strive towards it, if that makes sense.

Jen: Okay, tell If I just heard you correctly.

Pete: Mm-hmm.

Jen: Change requires skill, requires hard work, which requires emotional labor.

Pete: Mm-hmm.

Jen: That's what you just said. Right?

Pete: Yeah.

Jen: Okay. So I want to just, like, I want to extend that.

Pete: Mm-hmm.

Jen: Change requires skill, which requires hard work, which requires emotional labor, which requires desire for change, which requires self awareness.

Pete: Mmm.

Jen: So working backwards from there, because you know I love to work backwards.

Pete: It's what you do best.

Jen: A moment of self awareness can lead to a moment of desire for change. And that moment of desire for change can lead you to a willingness to invest in emotional labor. And when you're willing to invest in emotional labor, that means you're willing to dig in to the hard part, the hard work of learning a skill set. And learning that skill set leads to the change that it was all for in the first place.

Pete: Drop the mic, Jen Waldman. That is The Long and The Short Of It.